What computer components or electronics have you lost due to electrical storms?

[westom]

Speculation? Only things directly connected by wire to the cable line were damaged.

First, every device listed was connected to AC mains and cable. Was the furnace damaged? It was connected to AC mains. But not to cable. Was the dishwasher damaged? It was connected to AC mains but not to cable. Was a Boxee damaged? It was connected to AC mains AND to cable. That was explained in the previous post. Does this make it clearer?

That previous post defined a most common incoming and outgoing path. Please reread it. If this is new and if you are like anyone, then it made no sense until maybe a third reread.

That surge was incoming to everything. Incoming to a garage door opener. But what was the outgoing path to ground via the cable? Does not exist? Then garage door opener was not damaged. Everything inside a house is confronted by a surge. Everything was connected to the incoming path. To be damaged, something must also have an outgoing wire to ground. Anything without both wires cannot be damaged. Again, does this become any clearer?

If you do not list both an incoming surge path and an outgoing path to ground, then the conclusion is only wild speculation. No valid conclusion is possible until the incoming surge wire and the outgoing wire to ground are identified.


Second, any protector that trips does no protection. A tripped protector disconnects from a surge as fast as possible so as to not create a house fire. Furthermore, a protector too close to appliances and too far from earth ground has a nasty habit of giving a surge even more paths to find earth destructively. Or read that protector's numeric specs. Good luck finding any numbers that claim protection from a destructive surge.

Why did you assume a protector trips - also called disconnecting from a surge? What exactly did you think that protector was going to do?

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Lost three ASUS WL-520GUs over a few years at the folks' place.
Phonelines always get hit, goes through the DSL modem (but doesn't fry it ) and proceeds to frickazee the router.

 

[irishScott]

None.

 

[Barfo]

nada

 

[tboo]

My brother-in-law just lost his Panasonic plasma a few weeks ago to a storm. A surge came through the coaxial cable, into the cable box(which also got fried), and then into the TV via the HDMI cable.

 

[edro]

Just a few modems back in the day.
14.4, 28.8, 33.6, 56k. I probably burned up 3 or 4 of them.

 

[squirrel dog]

Westom,in the USA all power companies use an earth ground at each pole/buried ped.All telcos and cable co. also use an earth ground at each pole and or buried pedestal.All homes that have power/tel/cable are grounded to an earth ground.Usually a 6~8' ground rod.I built my house in 1994.I drove into the ground with a 3lb maul 3 - 6' ground rods.One for tele,one for cable and one for directtv.The power company drove an 8' ground rod while I watched,when they provided service.I realize that surge protectors use rather simple electronics to do their job,while surge suppression is more robust.Other than disconnecting from the grid completely,which I do when I am gone for any amount of time,I don't see how to avoid power surges.Keep in mind my home has strike safe for the whole house(http://strikesafe.com/)
and surge devices on all electronics.All outlets are wired with a ground wire that is wired to an earth ground back to the main panel.

 

[westom]

I drove into the ground with a 3lb maul 3 - 6' ground rods.One for tele,one for cable and one for directtv.The power company drove an 8' ground rod while I watched,when they provided service.I realize that surge protectors use rather simple electronics to do their job,while surge suppression is more robust. Other than disconnecting from the grid completely,which I do when I am gone for any.

You made mistakes. First, all utility wires (telephone, cable, satellite dish) must make a short (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to the 'same' earthing electrode. Separate earthing means increased surge currents inside a house.

Second, ground rods must be at least 8 feet long. Ten feet is preferred. Spacing between those rods is also important.

Third, only one AC wire is earthed. All three must be earthed. If any wire enters without earthing, then you have connected a lightning strike far down the street directly to every household appliance. IOW a surge was all but invited inside.

Surge protector and suppression is same. No complex electronics are in the best solutions. If a protector can be replaced by a wire, then protection is even better. A protector is simple science. Earthing is the art.

For example, does a connection from any utility wire to earth have sharp bends? Then protection is compromised. Does a 6 AWG bare copper wire from breaker box to earth go up over the foundation and down to earth? Again, earthing is compromised. Too long. Too many sharp bends. Bundled with other non-grounding wires. Those and many more also say why wall receptacle safety grounds are not earth ground. Welcome to the art.

Many have assumed an incoming surge path using observation not tempered by basic electrical knowledge. You have assumed all three incoming AC wires are earthed because a neutral wire is only earthed. An example of observation not tempered by the underlying concepts. These mistakes also explain why others assume damage from telephone and coax wire. Observation without first remembering basic electrical concepts explains conclusions only based in speculation.

Relevant to the OP’s question is how frequent destructive surges occur. Maybe once every seven years? A number that can vary significantly even in the same town. Better answers should include how much damage per how many years.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I've been lucky so far. *touch wood*. I rely on the UPS's surge protection for all my devices but not sure how good that would really do if lighning struct a nearby hydro pole. Though I should really get on protecting my incoming phone and coax too. The phone has a carbon protector at the nid but the coax is just straight in. They make whole house surge protectors that also do phone and coax, might get one of those. Anyone know about these?

 

[squirrel dog]

wes,can you provide some links to back up what you are saying?Real world would be best.

 

[westom]

wes,can you provide some links to back up what you are saying?

Posted was known and well understood for over 100 years. Is easily found in most professional source. But well over 90% of the information out there is only propaganda that contradicts well proven science. Because the profit margins on ineffective products are so massive. And because urban myths are routinely believed if one does not dispose of every subjective answer.

Some concepts were introduced in Any really effective surge protectors? .

NIST (US government research agency) says what any protector must do:
> You cannot really suppress a surge altogether, nor "arrest" it.
> What these protective devices do is neither suppress nor arrest
> a surge, but simply divert it to ground, where it can do no harm.

Sun Microsystems "Planning guide for Sun Server room" says:
> Section 6.4.7 Lightning Protection:
> Lightning surges cannot be stopped, but they can be diverted. The
> plans for the data center should be thoroughly reviewed to identify
> any paths for surge entry into the data center. Surge arrestors can
> be designed into the system to help mitigate the potential for
> lightning damage within the data center. These should divert the
> power of the surge by providing a path to ground for the surge energy.

IEEE Standards (where IEEE makes recommendations) say same. IEEE Emerald Book:
> It is important to ensure that low-impedance grounding and
> bonding connections exist among the telephone and data
> equipment, the ac power system's electrical safety-grounding
> system, and the building grounding electrode system. ...
> Failure to observe any part of this grounding requirement
> may result in hazardous potential being developed between
> the telephone (data) equipment and other grounded items
> that personnel may be near or might simultaneously contact.

Or IEEE Red Book:
> In actual practice, lightning protection is achieve by the process of
> interception of lightning produced surges, diverting them to ground,
> and by altering their associated wave shapes.

A professional demonstrated these concepts in an application note. Even underground wires must be earthed before entering a building:
http://www.erico.com/public/library/fep/technotes/tncr002.pdf

From the ARRL in QST Magazine July 2002 "Lightning Protection for the Amateur Radio Station"
> The purpose of the ground connection is to take the energy arriving
> on the antenna feed line cables and control lines (and to a lesser
> extent on the power and telephone lines) and give it a path back to
> the earth, our energy sink. The impedance of the ground connection
> should be low so the energy prefers this path and is dispersed
> harmlessly. To achieve a low impedance the ground connection needs
> to be short (distance), straight, and wide.
> ...
> The goal is to make the ground path leading away from the SPGP
> more desirable than any other path.


Dr Ronald Standler in his book "Protection of Electronic Circuits from Overvoltage" complains about why most all homes have no effective protection:
> This situation could be resolved by the use of mandatory standards ...
> At this time this book was written (1988), the author saw no hope of
> such standards being adopted in the United States for overvoltages on
> the mains.

"Practical Guide to Electrical Grounding" by W Keith Switzer page 33:
> The overall purpose of a lightning protection system is to protect a
> facility and it's inhabitants from the damage of a direct or nearby
> lightning strike. Since ERICO believes that trying to prevent a
> lightning strike is unreliable, the best way to protect is to shunt
> the lightning energy "around" the vital components/inhabitants of
> the facility and dissipate that energy into the earth where it wants
> to go anyway.

IEEE Green Book entitled 'Static and Lightning Protection Grounding':
> Lightning cannot be prevented; it can only be intercepted or diverted
> to a path which will, if well designed and constructed, not result in
> damage. Even this means is not positive, providing only
> 99.5-99.9% protection.

http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_lhm/surge.html
> Grounding Is Fundamental
> A surge protection device (SPD), also known as a transient voltage
> surge suppressor (TVSS), is designed to divert high-current surges to
> ground and bypass your equipment, thereby limiting the voltage that
> is impressed on the equipment. For this reason, it is critical that your
> facility have a good, low-resistance grounding system, with a single
> ground reference point to which the grounds of all building systems
> are connected. Without a proper grounding system, there is no way
> to protect against surges. Consult with a licensed electrician to
> ensure that your electrical distribution system is grounded in
> accordance with the National Electric Code (NFPA 70)

IEC 1024-1 "Protection of Structures Against Lightning" page 23:
>In order to disperse the lightning current into the earth without causing
> dangerous overvoltages, the shape and dimensions of the
> earth-termination system are more important than a specific value
> of the resistance of the earth electrode. However, in general, a low
> earth resistance is recommended.

Mil Std 419 entitled "Grounding, Bonding, and Shielding for Electronic Equipments and Facilities"
> 1.3.3.5.12 Surge Arrester Installation.
>5c. Surge arrester ground connection. When the surge arrester is not
> properly grounded, its response time will be delayed and a higher clamp
> voltage than that of the surge arrester will be impressed across the
> equipment being protected. This can also be expected if the earth
> ground connection for the surge arrester contains loops or sharp bends
> or is not properly bonded to the earth electrode subsystem.

More citations provided by dshoaf:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4818545&postcount=34

A short sample of what was well understood for over 100 years. And what an overwhelming majority would not know due to 'education by advertising'. These concepts are always implemented in any facility that can never have surge damage. Always.

 

[Sheep]

I had a hard drive get destroyed on me. I was so sad.

Same here, a single HDD--the rest of the PC including other HDDs was completely fine. My brain can't comprehend how just one HDD and nothing else got damaged.

 

[squirrel dog]

thanks wes,that's what I'm looking for .

 

[westom]

My brain can't comprehend how just one HDD and nothing else got damaged.

Reasons why were demonstrated in previous posts.

For example, a direct lightning strike to AC wires way down the street is a direct strike to all appliances inside the house. So all household appliances are damaged? Well yes, if surges enter on one wire; then stop. No if using concepts taught in elementary school science. "Yes" means rationalizing with myths.

To have electricity means two wires. One to carry a surge current into every appliance (or every disk drive inside a computer). And another to carry the exact same current, simultaneously, out of the appliance (or disk drive). All appliances are not damaged because all appliances do not have both connections. What is the outgoing path for that surge current through the disk drive's computer board?

A surge enters a house. Destroys the VCR but does not harm an adjacent TV. In that case, the VCR acted like a surge protector. A surge hunts for and destroyed the best path to earth. VCR destroyed because that surge was all but invited to go hunting destructively for earth. The better path was through a VCR. Better protection inside the TV protected it.

Where was the incoming and outgoing current path through that disk drive? And why were other parts in that path also not destroyed? This is where the two examples differ. If a surge was incoming to the disk drive, then where are other parts also destroyed in a path from cloud to earth?

Most failures are manufacturing defects. Many just blame surges by rationalizing, "It was working yesterday, so something else must have caused damage." Remember those counterfeit electrolytic capacitors? They were defectively manufactured years earlier. Long before a failure occurred. Often, manufacturing defects that cause failures occur during normal operation. But only become apparent a next power cycle. Then many blame a surge or power cycling rather than the manufacturing defect.

Demonstrated is 1) everything can suffer an incoming surge; but only one or a few items actually get damaged. Without an outgoing path, many surged items are not damaged. And 2) most failures are manufacturing defects. Due to insufficient knowledge and advertising, most are too quick to blame surges using only speculation.

 

[Eug]

My neighbour's house is a giant lightning rod, sorta. When they did their reno they put a giant metal structure made of 4 metal pillars in the middle of the house, extending from the basement up 2 floors. It holds up the roof of the 2nd floor. It's an open concept house and all the central structural support is off that single quad-pillar structure.

That roof apparently got some minor damage, but the patio at ground level got the brunt of it. The patio... which is cement with metal reinforcements... is partially blown up, with bits of cement all around it now, with some of it get thrown into his other neighbour's yard.

His TV got fried, as did part of his telephone system.

I'm two houses over, and lost nothing, but for the first time ever my old 10/100 switch locked up. A reset was all I needed to do to get it back working again though.

 

[crab]

Have a residential elevator here in my house, and got in it to go downstairs one morning after a storm. As soon as I heard the brake relays click, it just fucking dropped in freefall. The only thing that stopped it before hitting bottom was a safety system that detects cable slack, and I stopped about four feet before the shaft bottom in my basement.

It was determined to be lightning damage by the manufacturer. It took ThyssenKrupp nearly four months to get the correct parts out to us. Had to convert our living room into our bedroom for that time. I'll never again by a TK elevator.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

About 10 yeasr ago my PCI modem died. Some chip got cooked on it right near where the telephone jack was on the board.

 

[flvinny521]

Westom, I feel like you are probably providing some good information, which, as a new homeowner, I should be reading, but honestly, I can't understand what the hell you are saying.

 

[JimmiG]

56k modem waayyyy back in '98. Right before I switched to Road Runner.

Same here, lost several dialup modems back in the day. Also, several corded and cordless phones (their base stations anyway).

 

[westom]

... as a new homeowner, I should be reading, but honestly, I can't understand what the hell you are saying.

If something is new to me, then I don't even begin to understand it until the third reading. If I ever understand anything in the first reading, then I already knew most of it.

In every one of those latest posts, damage was directly traceable someone connecting lightning to earth via an elevator, electronics, or something else that should have never been in the connection to earth. In every case, the necessary protection (as demonstrated even by Franklin in 1752) was missing.

Franklin gave lightning a path to earth so that an electrical conductor called wood would not carry that current. 'Whole house' protectors give surges (including lightning) a path to earth so that an electrical conductor called appliances would not carry that current. In both cases, the only item that does protection is an earthing system. A defective earthing system even explains a destroyed concrete patio.

 

[Modelworks]

I haven't lost anything. Over the years I have probably seen the damage internally to hundreds of devices through work and most of the damage I have seen wasn't caused by lightning or a single power surge passing through the unit but by repeated exposure to smaller surges. One of the hardest things on a power supply is power cycling. That occurs when power goes out, comes right back on, goes right back out, or when you see the lights flickering. Supplies experience an inrush of current when they are first powered up and that can be damaging if it occurs repeatedly in a short period of time. Sort of like taking your plug to your tv and pulling it in and out of the socket repeatedly for a few seconds. Unfortunately there is nothing except a UPS that can solve that problem as the power doesn't surge in these instances over the voltage limit that is necessary to trigger surge protection. Some better designed electronics will detect that the power has been lost and will start an internal timer that has to elapse before a relay clicks allowing the main power supply to be reconnected to the main power. They basically have two supplies with the first being a very small standby supply that if it does fail is much cheaper to repair.




The other thing I see is induced voltages. That is where you have a cable near another cable that is hit with lightning. The current flowing through the nearby wire creates a current in another wire and even though it wasn't directly connected with the surge it too spikes, just not as much. Those a surge protector can help with.

 

[flvinny521]

'Whole house' protectors give surges (including lightning) a path to earth so that an electrical conductor called appliances would not carry that current.

So, would something like this be an appropriate form of "whole house" protection?

http://www.smarthome.com/4860/Leviton-51120-1-Whole-House-Surge-Suppressor-Surge-Protector/p.aspx

Obviously, I am not an electrician, or I would have understood your posts the first time. If I were to hire one to install an effective whole-house protection system, what would that consist of?

 

[bobdole369]

In 2000ish I lost a 128MB stick of memory, and a motherboard on a diff PC (I wanna say it was my celeron 300a -> 450 rig but not sure). Same fate happened to the cable descrambler (illegal) we had in the living room. 2 weeks later roommate lost his surround receiver.

Lost every security camera in my old job to lightning, more than a dozen. Lost a couple power supplies too but can't say they were a direct result of the storm, they just died and it had been raining that day (was at work).

 

[Jaskalas]

Up in Victorville, CA I lived in a house where we strung my Cat5 cable outside under the eaves. Don't do that.

In four years we had one thunderstorm almost deliver a direct hit. The lightning obviously charged the Cat5 cause it killed the router and my NIC card on both ends of the cable. The NIC was built onto the motherboard.

Rest of the computer was fine though, and accepted a PCI NIC card.

 

[westom]

If I were to hire one to install an effective whole-house protection system, what would that consist of?

Protectors are simple science. That protector must have two important features. At least 50,000 amps. And must have a wire that connects to earth ground (ie its J5 wire). That Leviton does the simple science.

The art of protection is where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate. A quarter inch bare copper wire exits the breaker box. Trace it. That wire must connect short (ie 'less than 10 feet') to an earth ground electrode. That does the protection (not a protector). If that wire goes up over the foundation and down to an earthing electrode, then protection is compromised. Too long. Sharp bends over the foundation. That ground wire also must be rerouted to be shorter, no sharp bends, no splices, and separated from other non-grounded wires.

Installing a 'whole house' protector is simple. The art is what most (even many electricians) do not understand. A ground wire may be sufficient to meet code. Code says that ground wire can have sharp bends or be longer. Surge protection means an earth ground must exceed code requirements. That ground wire even must not be inside metallic conduit.

All other incoming wires (ie the telco installed for free 'whole house' protector) must also connect just as short to that earthing electrode.

How to connect to earth and the quality of those earthing electrodes are the art of protection. Inspect what exists before getting anything installed. Know what is needed before requesting an electrician to install a protector and upgrade the earthing.