what computer certifications do you have?

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: MetalMat

Maybe they are more common nowadays, but it shows that you can put up with 4 years of bs. Besides, some jobs you have to have a degree to get. Sure you could gamble by just working hard and not getting a degree, but I earned my degree and plan on doing something with it.

They are too common, and just about everyone gets one nowadays. That brings us back to square one. At the end of the day you're just another person working through life, limited only by your own personal ability.

I cannot speak for anyone else, but will say that I do not need excuses or crutches. At the risk of coming off as conceited, as I said before I was always fortunate that I was born with a pretty high IQ, I scored in the top couple of percentile points nationwide, I was always in gifted classes, and I've always exceled at cognitive tasks.

Now, it's years after school and I'm doing very well, earnign a wage that's proportional to my aptitude, and I have college kids on internet forums trying to tell me that I won't go anywhere without a degree. They're wrong, I already have gone somewhere. I have a mental advantage, and I'll be able to edge out most people in competition for jobs that require a lot of thinking/decisionmaking.

Sorry to come off as being stuck up, but that's the way it is. Use your degree as much as you can, just like most other people, but I'll enjoy the cognitive advantage that most people don't share. All throughout life I've been pissing off average people. Whether it was studying for exams, SAT's, or certs, I've always had an advantage.

 

[Armitage]

91TTZ, what exactly is your job description?

 

[Deeko]

None. My certification will be my BS in computer science.

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: MetalMat

Maybe they are more common nowadays, but it shows that you can put up with 4 years of bs. Besides, some jobs you have to have a degree to get. Sure you could gamble by just working hard and not getting a degree, but I earned my degree and plan on doing something with it.

They are too common, and just about everyone gets one nowadays. That brings us back to square one. At the end of the day you're just another person working through life, limited only by your own personal ability.

I cannot speak for anyone else, but will say that I do not need excuses or crutches. At the risk of coming off as conceited, as I said before I was always fortunate that I was born with a pretty high IQ, I scored in the top couple of percentile points nationwide, I was always in gifted classes, and I've always exceled at cognitive tasks.

Now, it's years after school and I'm doing very well, earnign a wage that's proportional to my aptitude, and I have college kids on internet forums trying to tell me that I won't go anywhere without a degree. They're wrong, I already have gone somewhere. I have a mental advantage, and I'll be able to edge out most people in competition for jobs that require a lot of thinking/decisionmaking.

Sorry to come off as being stuck up, but that's the way it is. Use your degree as much as you can, just like most other people, but I'll enjoy the cognitive advantage that most people don't share. All throughout life I've been pissing off average people. Whether it was studying for exams, SAT's, or certs, I've always had an advantage.

I don't think people are trying to tell you that you wont go anywhere without a degree. You're saying that a degree is worthless be cause, you, steve jobs, and bill gates have gotten by without one. They're disagreeing with you, saying that a degree IS useful, moreso than the certifications this thread was initially started about.

Who said you cant go anywhere without a degree, or that you, personally, wont go anywhere without a degree?

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: notfred

If ANYONE could get a degree, everyone would have one. Apparently you aren't ANYONE since you don't have one? Or, maybe you just figure you're better off without a degree?

By the time I got out of high school, I had enough experience working with computers to land a job at a motherboard manufacturer. I was going to college, but I left.

Yeah, the cost of admission to college is low. The amount of work and dedication required to actually graduate from college is still fairly high. Barely a quarter of Americans have college degrees. I'm pretty sure that more than 1/4 of Americans would like to have college degrees.

Many people are dumb, also. Consider that 50% of the population must be at or below average intellect. The other half is at or above average. I'm in the top 2%, so sue me.

So what's stopping these people from getting degrees? Something is certainly doing it. Not ANYBODY gets a degree just because they want it, they have to put out the effort.

College has never separated the smart from the dumb. College separates the dedicated from the lazy.

That suits me just fine, since I'm neither stupid nor lazy.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Imdmn04


Why does everybody automcatically assume someone has a degree has no experience?

a person with a degree+exp but no cert
will be >
a person with no degree +exp +cert

You are completely leaving out the factor of the person's ability. Not all people are created equal. Some of those college grads are brilliant, some are dim. Some of the people with no college are brilliant, some are dim. I think that will be the biggest factor.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: CVSiN

not in IT anyway.. do a search on DICE.. alot of companies especially Microsoft partners are requiring at least 1 MCP and usually A+ for entry level IT jobs.. and I dont know any Admins for any large company that dont have an MCSE...

new applicants to my company MUST hold at least 1 cert..
and you are expected to better yourself the whole time you are employeed with this company..
they expect at least 1 cert per year.
or college classes

The requirements for my job at IBM also stated that the applicant MUST have certs and a degree. It didn't stop me from getting the job.

 

[magomago]

AT+

it beats out whatever else exists

 

[Maverick]

I'm going for a Sun Certified Java Programmer certification soon. After that I may take the web component developer cert.

I'm trying to break into programmer roles from my past few which have been more testing related. In lieu of experience, I need to have something else to prove that I can learn a new language...so a cert makes sense for me.

If I had been lucky enough to already have a job which was transitioning to Java from C++ or something like that then I wouldn't need the cert...but in my current position I need it to differentiate myself from someone who already knows Java.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Armitage

I suspect you're not competing for the same kinds of jobs.

I don't know what he does, so you could be right.

But let me tell you what I do know. Take a look at the largest computer corporations in the world. To be a good *employee*, college helps. But the head honcho calling the shots is usually a person of superior intellect, whether they went to college or not. At Microsoft you have Bill Gates, at Apple you have Steve Jobs, at Dell you have Michael Dell, at Oracle you have Larry Ellison, etc.

So I guess if your goal is to be a good subordinate, college is the way to go. Personally, I don't get much satisfaction working for someone else, and I'm only working at IBM until I can get my own business off the ground.

Bill Gates went to Harvard. Had he not gone there, there likely wouldn't have been a Microsoft, because that's where he met the co-founders of the company.

Steve Jobs went to Reed College. he credits a calligraphy class there as inspiring the high-quality text rendering that helped make the mac the choice of graphic artists.

Michael Dell went to the University of Texas as Austin. He started his computer business from his dormroom.

I can't find any info on Larry Ellison's education, but looking at the three men above, are you still going to imply that college is useless if you want to run a company?

The all dropped out. No degree. I went to college, too, but I left. In fact, one of the people I work with on the side went to my school. I'm not Bill Gates but I can see that you have to take inspiration from where you can get it.

 

[Imdmn04]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ


Many people are dumb, also. Consider that 50% of the population must be at or below average intellect. The other half is at or above average. I'm in the top 2%, so sue me.

Hahaha, intellectuals in the top 2% range doesnt brag about how they are in the top 2% on an Internet forum.

 

[gscone]

Been working for many years and I'm fortunate to have worked with some of the newer technologies. My certifications are listed as is: CCIE, CCSE+, CCVP, MCSE 2k/NT, HP cert's and a bunch of lower level certifications.

 

[Zim Hosein]

what computer certifications do you have?

Zero.

 

[yllus]

To paraphrase from Robert Heinlein: While every degree holder may not be a good man, the odds are that the average degree holder will be a better candidate for a job than the average certification holder, all other things being equal.

 

[Imdmn04]

Originally posted by: yllus
To paraphrase from Robert Heinlein: While every degree holder may not be a good man, the odds are that the average degree holder will be a better candidate for a job than the average certification holder, all other things being equal.

Exactly, but the non-degree holders will never admit this.

 

[munruss]

Originally posted by: vital
A+, MCSE, NETWORK+, ORACLE, CCNA?

i have none because i'm still working on my degree but thinking of gettin some soon.

Don't waste your time.

 

[CVSiN]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: CVSiN

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Armitage

I suspect you're not competing for the same kinds of jobs.

I don't know what he does, so you could be right.

But let me tell you what I do know. Take a look at the largest computer corporations in the world. To be a good *employee*, college helps. But the head honcho calling the shots is usually a person of superior intellect, whether they went to college or not. At Microsoft you have Bill Gates, at Apple you have Steve Jobs, at Dell you have Michael Dell, at Oracle you have Larry Ellison, etc.

So I guess if your goal is to be a good subordinate, college is the way to go. Personally, I don't get much satisfaction working for someone else, and I'm only working at IBM until I can get my own business off the ground.

Bill Gates went to Harvard. Had he not gone there, there likely wouldn't have been a Microsoft, because that's where he met the co-founders of the company.

Steve Jobs went to Reed College. he credits a calligraphy class there as inspiring the high-quality text rendering that helped make the mac the choice of graphic artists.

Michael Dell went to the University of Texas as Austin. He started his computer business from his dormroom.

I can't find any info on Larry Ellison's education, but looking at the three men above, are you still going to imply that college is useless if you want to run a company?

Its still uneccessary specially in IT really..
by the time a course is written its mostly obsolete in the real world..
people that are already in the field have been here for years and years..
hell when I went to college Typewriters were still on desks..
PC whats a PC?
I learned 99% of what I know not from certs or college but hands on in the field..

now you pencil pushing geeks.... you guys need college... us tech nerds in the trenches... naw not so much..

I don't know what you're using as definitions for "IT" and "pencil pushing geek", but the things they teach in a computer science curriculum have been in use for decades.

Maybe your windows 2000 admin course is obsolete, but your data structures class that teaches you about red-black trees and hastables is still as useful as it ever was, and you aren't going to learn that material in an A+ or MCSE class.

I don't want to learn to administer windows, I want to create it.

See you want to be a dev... but I know very successful developers that did not go to college but instead got all thier knowlege from books and sitting in a dark cave with a PC thier entire lives...

everything they teach in college is out there in Books.. and there are VERY bright people in this industry that never even been on a college campus...

 

[Heisenberg]

Originally posted by: Zim Hosein

what computer certifications do you have?

Zero.

What Zim's not saying though is that he has every :beer: certification known to man.

 

[steelels1]

Had a CCNA and one more semester until finishing BS in CIS.

However, my CCNA recently expired, and I have no intention of renewing it for the time being. The test was extremely easy when I took it, although I've heard it's changed a lot (anyone know?). Made a 978/1000 on it when I was 17 from just reading a prep book.

 

[gscone]

Originally posted by: steelels1
Had a CCNA and one more semester until finishing BS in CIS.

However, my CCNA recently expired, and I have no intention of renewing it for the time being. The test was extremely easy when I took it, although I've heard it's changed a lot (anyone know?). Made a 978/1000 on it when I was 17 from just reading a prep book.

Not to disrespect you, but do you think my learning from a prep book would help you resolve a production issue?

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: yllus
To paraphrase from Robert Heinlein: While every degree holder may not be a good man, the odds are that the average degree holder will be a better candidate for a job than the average certification holder, all other things being equal.

Any person that thinks that a single qualification, whether that be education, experience or certification is going to be sadly disappointed when they go to look for a new job.

I've got a 4 year degree. I've got 8 years of full time experience. I've got some decent names on my resume. In this market and especially in a city where I have no true connections, I have to do everything that I can to bolster my resume so that I can even get in for an interview. In my case, it's not having certification buzzwords that HR people are looking for.

The IT market absolutely sucks right now - at least at the mid-level. It's all entry level for $12 an hour or requires godlike experience and pays $50.00+ an hour. I've got to do everything I can to increase my resume looks and get put in the "lets interview" column.

It's not 1998 anymore where an IT person could more or less name their price.

You need to do everything you can to keep ahead of the education inflation.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: notfred

I don't think people are trying to tell you that you wont go anywhere without a degree. You're saying that a degree is worthless be cause, you, steve jobs, and bill gates have gotten by without one. They're disagreeing with you, saying that a degree IS useful, moreso than the certifications this thread was initially started about.

Who said you cant go anywhere without a degree, or that you, personally, wont go anywhere without a degree?

I agree, I think we just have a misunderstanding. I don't think that dropping out of college really "helps" anyone, I just don't think it prevents them from going far. Sure, college will always help. I just believe that despite that, the cream of the crop will rise to the top.

 

[gscone]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: yllus
To paraphrase from Robert Heinlein: While every degree holder may not be a good man, the odds are that the average degree holder will be a better candidate for a job than the average certification holder, all other things being equal.

Any person that thinks that a single qualification, whether that be education, experience or certification is going to be sadly disappointed when they go to look for a new job.

I've got a 4 year degree. I've got 8 years of full time experience. I've got some decent names on my resume. In this market and especially in a city where I have no true connections, I have to do everything that I can to bolster my resume so that I can even get in for an interview. In my case, it's not having certification buzzwords that HR people are looking for.

The IT market absolutely sucks right now - at least at the mid-level. It's all entry level for $12 an hour or requires godlike experience and pays $50.00+ an hour. I've got to do everything I can to increase my resume looks and get put in the "lets interview" column.

It's not 1998 anymore where an IT person could more or less name their price.

You need to do everything you can to keep ahead of the education inflation.

Well said, BUT for you to even get in the door, HR rep's want to see those key "Buzz" words that stick out like a sore thumb. WHen I was on the market many months ago, Recruiters would see CCIE on my resume, they would go banana's. Good Luck..

 

[PawNtheSandman]

While a degree is a huge accomplishment, a Computer Science degree now a days seems to do little more than get an interview if lucky. Many of the employeers frown upon Computer Science. They want something more specific like programing, networking, web development, etc. Computer Science seems to be a little of everything, master of none degree and with so many people having this, I can see why they want something specific.

 

[pyonir]

None.