What comes after 40nm?

[ilkhan]

I keep hearing 34nm, 32nm, or 28nm. Whats the actual next step, and when will we see it in stores?

 

[happy medium]

28nm

 

[Lonyo]

GlobalFoundries is going to 32nm and TSMC is going to 28nm, so it depends on who ends up making what.

 

[tweakboy]

NOPE , Lonyo is correct. its 32nm die

 

[Soleron]

28nm, because TSMC doesn't have a 32nm node any more, and GF doesn't have a bulk silicon 32nm node (AMD say they won't do their next discrete graphics on SOI and Nvidia has no public intention of switching to GF).

Llano is 32nm SOI though.

 

[tweakboy]

The bigger question is when is the 12nm process coming LOL jk jk ! ! !

 

[nemesismk2]

32nm

 

[tweakboy]

Intel will role out 32nm 8 core processors in couple months closer to next year from various sources I read forgot the link... anyhow.

32nm

and I think CPU will have it sooner then GPU hmmm,

 

[Kuzi]

GlobalFoundries is going to 32nm and TSMC is going to 28nm, so it depends on who ends up making what.

GlobalFoundries is actually working on both 32nm and 28nm at this time, GF showed actual 28nm silicon last January.

TSMC will have 28nm too, but they seem to be 3-6 months behind GF at this time. I strongly believe future ATI GPUs will use GF 28nm process. NV might stick with TMSC.

 

[alyarb]

This is the video card forum buddy. GPUs go 65-55-40-28. GF has not signed anything with nvidia or ATI so we have no reason to expect 32nm GPUs unless they are in the form of die-fused IGPs such as Llano, sandy GMA etc.

 

[ther00kie16]

i don't see 28nm happening before 32nm.
and btw, 32nm cpus are already out.

i should specify that i think the IGP will make it to 32nm first as Sandy Bridge will most likely be 1 die so both cpu and gpu will be 32nm.

 

[Kakkoii]

i don't see 28nm happening before 32nm.
and btw, 32nm cpus are already out.

i should specify that i think the IGP will make it to 32nm first as Sandy Bridge will most likely be 1 die so both cpu and gpu will be 32nm.

GPU's aren't manufactured on the same nodes as CPU's.

The list for the fabrication sizes of CPU's is on the right side of this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/32_nanometer

CPU's won't be touching 28nm. The GPU's will be. CPU's are going from 32nm to 22nm.

 

[happy medium]

I'll say it again, 28nm and the 5xxx series and Fermi will use it for there GPU refreshes.

 

[ther00kie16]

GPU's aren't manufactured on the same nodes as CPU's.

The list for the fabrication sizes of CPU's is on the right side of this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/32_nanometer

CPU's won't be touching 28nm. The GPU's will be. CPU's are going from 32nm to 22nm.

Yes, CPUs will go from 32nm to 22nm. However, I'm saying next stop for GPUs is 32nm as Intel's Westmere, which will have CPU + GPU cores on the same 32nm die, will be out before any 28nm GPUs.

 

[happy medium]

Yes, CPUs will go from 32nm to 22nm. However, I'm saying next stop for GPUs is 32nm as Intel's Westmere, which will have CPU + GPU cores on the same 32nm die, will be out before any 28nm GPUs.

Intel GPU what? No one cares about that.

We are talking real gpu's.

The answer is AGAIN 28nm

 

[blanketyblank]

I'll say it again, 28nm and the 5xxx series and Fermi will use it for there GPU refreshes.

Don't mean to go off topic here, but GPU refreshes have generally been crossfirable/SLIable right? The size of the process doesn't matter to that does it? I'm pretty sure 4890 could crossfire with the 4850/4870 even though it was on a new process. I'm not quite as sure about the nvidia cards though since I'm not sure if the g92s refreshes could SLI though I'm not sure about if they changed the process or not between generations.

Just wondering since if they are I'd want to pick up a refresh to crossfire.

 

[alyarb]

the westmere CPU is 32nm, but the GPU is off-die and 45nm. sandy bridge will have a 32nm IGP and Llano will have a 32nm IGP, but those really don't count. The whole point of making transistors smaller is so that you can make GPUs bigger, so these hybrid CPUs need not apply.

 

[happy medium]

Don't mean to go off topic here, but GPU refreshes have generally been crossfirable/SLIable right? The size of the process doesn't matter to that does it? I'm pretty sure 4890 could crossfire with the 4850/4870 even though it was on a new process. I'm not quite as sure about the nvidia cards though since I'm not sure if the g92s refreshes could SLI though I'm not sure about if they changed the process or not between generations.

Just wondering since if they are I'd want to pick up a refresh to crossfire.

I think if it has the same core it can be crossfired refreshed or not. 58xx with a 58xx and 57xx with a 57xx.

A 5770 can be crossfired with a 5750, and are faster then 2 5750's.

I wonder what kind of performance you'd get from a 5870 and 5830?

Sli ,I'm not to sure of. I think they have to be the exact same core. A 9800gt can't sli with a 8800gt.

 

[Ben90]

Don't mean to go off topic here, but GPU refreshes have generally been crossfirable/SLIable right? The size of the process doesn't matter to that does it? I'm pretty sure 4890 could crossfire with the 4850/4870 even though it was on a new process. I'm not quite as sure about the nvidia cards though since I'm not sure if the g92s refreshes could SLI though I'm not sure about if they changed the process or not between generations.

Just so someone doesn't pick up some misleading information, the 4850/4870/4890 are all on the same 55nm node. The 4890 is basically just a slightly tweaked 4870 with (I think) better power management.

The 4770 is probably the one you are thinking of that is 40nm.

 

[blanketyblank]

Just so someone doesn't pick up some misleading information, the 4850/4870/4890 are all on the same 55nm node. The 4890 is basically just a slightly tweaked 4870 with (I think) better power management.

The 4770 is probably the one you are thinking of that is 40nm.

Oh you're right. Seems it was only the 4830 and 4860 which was 40nm. I kept thinking 4890 was a 40nm too since it came out later and had better overclocking than the 4870.

http://ati.amd.com/products/mobilityradeonhd4800/4860_index.html

ATI doesn't seem to list the 4860 in the charts, but it seems the 4830 can crossfire within the series though so I guess the new process doesn't make a difference to crossfiring still (unless either of these charts is wrong). 4770 can only crossfire with itself though so maybe an architecture difference or something?

http://game.amd.com/us-en/content/images/crossfirex/CF_combo_chart.jpg

 

[toyota]

Oh you're right. Seems it was only the 4830 and 4860 which was 40nm. I kept thinking 4890 was a 40nm too since it came out later and had better overclocking than the 4870.

http://ati.amd.com/products/mobilityradeonhd4800/4860_index.html

ATI doesn't seem to list the 4860 in the charts, but it seems the 4830 can crossfire within the series though so I guess the new process doesn't make a difference to crossfiring still (unless either of these charts is wrong). 4770 can only crossfire with itself though so maybe an architecture difference or something?

http://game.amd.com/us-en/content/images/crossfirex/CF_combo_chart.jpg

I guess ATIs own chart is wrong because the 4830 was not 40nm. in fact 40nm wasnt even ready when he 4830 came out in 2008.

EDIT: those are the mobile parts. the desktop 4830 was 55nm. the 4770 and 4860 are the only 40nm 4000 series desktop parts that I am aware of. they both used the same rv740 core.

 

[ther00kie16]

4770 was the only 40nm desktop part. 4860 was a stripped down 4890 and I believe is not in some charts because it was initially an Asian market only card.
4890: "Featuring an improved design with decoupling capacitors to reduce signal noise, altered ASIC power distribution and re-timed the whole GPU chip, which resulted in a slight increase in die size but overall much better stability at high clock rates."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compar...essing_units#Radeon_R700_.28HD_4xxx.29_series

 

[blanketyblank]

4770 was the only 40nm desktop part. 4860 was a stripped down 4890 and I believe is not in some charts because it was initially an Asian market only card.
4890: "Featuring an improved design with decoupling capacitors to reduce signal noise, altered ASIC power distribution and re-timed the whole GPU chip, which resulted in a slight increase in die size but overall much better stability at high clock rates."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compar...essing_units#Radeon_R700_.28HD_4xxx.29_series

Damn I guess that means a new process will break crossfire compatibility after all going by the 4770. Guess that means I'll just have to wait and snag another 5770 later then before the new process. I suppose that also means any new refresh from ATI would have to be in the 6xxx series since it looks like they've already used up all the 5xxx naming.

 

[happy medium]

Will a 65nm gtx 260 sli with a 55nm gtx 260? I don't see why not. Same core .same sp's, same clocks.

The 4770 was the only core of it's kind within the 4xxx series.
A 5770 refresh could be the same core just shrunk down for power savings,less heat,and higher clocks.
You don't need equal clocks to crossfire.

Might be just 5775. If this holds true then any 57xx series should crossfire with a 57xx series.

I would think that a refresh would be for higher end models anyway. 5870/5970.
A 4890 was a refresh of a 4870 and they crossfire just fine.

 

[shaynoa]

another 50 or 60 months wait if nvidia is doing them ,i shit you not