What causes coronary heart disease from smoking?

[etalns]

Is it the combination of the nicotine, and carbon monoxide? or something else?

 

[tm37]

Raises blood pressure

Reduces oxygen

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

yes

 

[etalns]

Originally posted by: tm37
Raises blood pressure

Reduces oxygen

Is it the combination of those two that does it? Does the nicotine actually have any health detriments>?

I'm wondering because I answered that as true on an exam I just did, and wondering whether it is those two factors that cause the coronary heart disease associated with smoking.

 

[Leper Messiah]

nicotine is a stimulant, so it makes your heart run faster. heart runs faster, more wear and tear on heart = heart disease.

 

[compuwiz1]

I'm 94 years old..what the hell do I care! 😉

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: Leper Messiah
nicotine is a stimulant, so it makes your heart run faster. heart runs faster, more wear and tear on heart = heart disease.

That is even more true of caffine, but we don't hear it being called a major killer.

AFAIK there is nothing about nicotine that would cause heard disease.
There are other chemicals in tobacco that might have adverse affects on the heart though.
I would hazard a guess that the conntection of heart disease and smoking is more attibutedable to secondary affects of smoking, like the lower O2 levels making exercise harder, then any direct affect.

 

[jadinolf]

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
I'm 94 years old..what the hell do I care! 😉

Old geezer! 😉

 

[mdbound]

Quick Google Search:

http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4545

http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv...d_heart_disease_the_facts?OpenDocument

http://www.clevelandclinic.org/health/health-info/docs/0300/0384.asp


Basically, coronary artery disease (and cerbrovascular disease and peripheral artery disease) are all due to the same basic problem....inflammation of the vessel wall with subsequent development of cholesterol plaques. The single biggest risk factor is cigarette smoke exposure. Other factors are important too but less pathogenic (diabetes, age, high blood pressure, high cholesterol).

Smoking itself however has a lot of other deliterious effects that go beyond its cardiovascular effects. I could go on forever about this if anybody wanted to hear.

Oh, and regarding nicotine....was previously used to put down race horses that had broken their leg....shot straight into a vein would result in death in a few seconds. Safe and painless for the horse (supposedly).

MD.

 

[DainBramaged]

Originally posted by: jadinolf

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
I'm 94 years old..what the hell do I care! 😉

Old geezer! 😉

Whoa....you are still alive?!?! 😀

 

[AnyMal]

Originally posted by: mdbound

Quick Google Search:

http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4545

http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv...d_heart_disease_the_facts?OpenDocument

http://www.clevelandclinic.org/health/health-info/docs/0300/0384.asp


Basically, coronary artery disease (and cerbrovascular disease and peripheral artery disease) are all due to the same basic problem....inflammation of the vessel wall with subsequent development of cholesterol plaques. The single biggest risk factor is cigarette smoke exposure. Other factors are important too but less pathogenic (diabetes, age, high blood pressure, high cholesterol).

Smoking itself however has a lot of other deliterious effects that go beyond its cardiovascular effects. I could go on forever about this if anybody wanted to hear.

Oh, and regarding nicotine....was previously used to put down race horses that had broken their leg....shot straight into a vein would result in death in a few seconds. Safe and painless for the horse (supposedly).

MD.

Yup, it take a very small dose, less then a milligramm, to kill a horse.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: mdbound

Quick Google Search:

http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4545

http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv...d_heart_disease_the_facts?OpenDocument

http://www.clevelandclinic.org/health/health-info/docs/0300/0384.asp


Basically, coronary artery disease (and cerbrovascular disease and peripheral artery disease) are all due to the same basic problem....inflammation of the vessel wall with subsequent development of cholesterol plaques. The single biggest risk factor is cigarette smoke exposure. Other factors are important too but less pathogenic (diabetes, age, high blood pressure, high cholesterol).

But that says nothing about what about cigarette smoke causes this risk factor. It only tells us that people that smoke are more likely to have coronary artery disease. Perhaps there is a third hidden factor that actually causes both addictive smoking and coronary artery disease?
Please understand, I am not disputing the fact that smoking is bad, just the science that tries to double talk around a lack of evidence.

Smoking itself however has a lot of other deliterious effects that go beyond its cardiovascular effects.

Yes, and you don't have to go beyond your local bingo hall to see that 😉

Oh, and regarding nicotine....was previously used to put down race horses that had broken their leg....shot straight into a vein would result in death in a few seconds. Safe and painless for the horse (supposedly).

MD.

This is spurious. At one time axes were used to cut off peoples heads, one axe could kill hundreds of people! Does this then mean that axes are bad, and we should not use them to cut down trees?

 

[mdbound]

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

Originally posted by: mdbound

Quick Google Search:

http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4545

http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv...d_heart_disease_the_facts?OpenDocument

http://www.clevelandclinic.org/health/health-info/docs/0300/0384.asp


Basically, coronary artery disease (and cerbrovascular disease and peripheral artery disease) are all due to the same basic problem....inflammation of the vessel wall with subsequent development of cholesterol plaques. The single biggest risk factor is cigarette smoke exposure. Other factors are important too but less pathogenic (diabetes, age, high blood pressure, high cholesterol).

But that says nothing about what about cigarette smoke causes this risk factor. It only tells us that people that smoke are more likely to have coronary artery disease. Perhaps there is a third hidden factor that actually causes both addictive smoking and coronary artery disease?
Please understand, I am not disputing the fact that smoking is bad, just the science that tries to double talk around a lack of evidence.

Smoking itself however has a lot of other deliterious effects that go beyond its cardiovascular effects.

Yes, and you don't have to go beyond your local bingo hall to see that 😉

Oh, and regarding nicotine....was previously used to put down race horses that had broken their leg....shot straight into a vein would result in death in a few seconds. Safe and painless for the horse (supposedly).

MD.

This is spurious. At one time axes were used to cut off peoples heads, one axe could kill hundreds of people! Does this then mean that axes are bad, and we should not use them to cut down trees?

1. Ya, the argument about causation.....here's the problem: You CAN NOT give a healthy human being a shot of nicotine, or have them start smoking, and then 10 years later kill them and do an autopsy on them and find plaquing in their arteries. That would be a nice prospective study, able to prove cause. But, you'd end up with a dead human (actually like at least 1000 dead humans to have enough power).

But you can run case-control studies, where you find two groups of people that are similar in most regards except one group smokes, another doesn't. The sheer numbers of people in these studies help wash out "third hidden factor". Of course, this doesn't prove causation, but it's the best thing to do without having to kill somebody's aunt to prove that cigs are bad.

And, specifically from animal data, the "third hidden factor" is really not so hidden....it's nicotine. That's the addicitive part. It's also probably the single most dangerous (out of 4000 other) chemicals in terms of potency AND amount delivered.

2. Ya

3. Ya, you're kind of right.....but just an example. The lungs get delievered with the body's ENTIRE blood flow (no other organ, not even the heart, sees that much blood at a tissue level). There are essentially only 2 layers of very thin cells (thin even from cell standards) that seperate the air from the blood. Crap gets quickly absorbed and delievered to the body from a surface area the size of a tennis court. In 2 code situations, I've had to deliver INTRAVENOUS medications via the lungs and the patients have responded to them because of the incredible absorptive capacity of the lungs.

Do you have any other good uses for nicotine (like the axe)?

MD.

 

[mdbound]

Oh, and from the Cleveland Clinic link:

What?s the link between smoking and heart disease?
About 30% of all deaths from heart disease in the United States are directly related to cigarette smoking. Smoking is a major cause of coronary artery disease (atherosclerosis) ? a disease of the arteries in the heart.

The nicotine present in smoke causes:

Decreased oxygen to the heart
Increased blood pressure and heart rate
Increased risk of developing heart disease
Increase in blood clotting
Increased risk of becoming sick (especially among children -- respiratory infections are more common among children exposed to second-hand smoke)
Damage to cells that line coronary arteries and other blood vessels

What is the link between heart attacks and smoking?
A person?s risk of heart attack greatly increases with the number of cigarettes he or she smokes. Smokers continue to increase their risk of heart attack the longer they smoke. People who smoke a pack of cigarettes a day have more than twice the risk of heart attack compared with non-smokers. Women who smoke and also take birth control pills face a several-fold increase in their risk of heart attack, stroke, and peripheral vascular disease.

And straight from the source:

Philip Morris USA (PM USA) agrees with the overwhelming medical and scientific consensus that cigarette smoking causes lung cancer, heart disease, emphysema and other serious diseases in smokers. Smokers are far more likely to develop serious diseases, like lung cancer, than non-smokers. There is no safe cigarette.

I mean, it's not very difficult to figure out....even the tobacco companies did before anybody else did.

MD.

 

[Pepsi90919]

stupid houses

 

[myusername]

While pulmonary effects can cause circulatory problems over the long-term, I am pretty sure that nicotine itself has been shown to cause weakening of cellular structure - it is responsible for inelasticity in the walls of circulatory vessels (as well as in the derma, hence smoker's face).

 

[Pepsei]

Do you have any other good uses for nicotine (like the axe)?

pick me pick me!!!

oh I know this one, we can use nicotine to make gum and in inhalers.... 😉

 

[Ausm]

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
I'm 94 years old..what the hell do I care! 😉

LOL

My Grampa smoked like a chimney and croaked when he was 84 but I didn't want to take that chance 🙂

Ausm

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: mdbound

1. Ya, the argument about causation.....here's the problem: You CAN NOT give a healthy human being a shot of nicotine, or have them start smoking, and then 10 years later kill them and do an autopsy on them and find plaquing in their arteries. That would be a nice prospective study, able to prove cause. But, you'd end up with a dead human (actually like at least 1000 dead humans to have enough power).

It would be nice if we could find some type of chemical reaction that would cause it though. Or if we could find this effect on tissue samples.

But you can run case-control studies, where you find two groups of people that are similar in most regards except one group smokes, another doesn't. The sheer numbers of people in these studies help wash out "third hidden factor". Of course, this doesn't prove causation, but it's the best thing to do without having to kill somebody's aunt to prove that cigs are bad.

The problem is that there is almost no way to have a decent control group. It is unethical to set up a real control group of this type, so we have to do blind statistic farming.

And, specifically from animal data, the "third hidden factor" is really not so hidden....it's nicotine. That's the addicitive part. It's also probably the single most dangerous (out of 4000 other) chemicals in terms of potency AND amount delivered.

This sounds like propaganda. Of those 4000 other chemicals some of them are certianly more potent then nicotine. It takes about 60mg or nicotine oraly to be fatal to a average human.
That 4000 chemical number is thrown around alot to scare people also, I wonder how many chemicals are in peanut butter. The number of chemicals in smoke is pretty much meaningless, it would be more deadly if it had fewer chemicals in higher dosages.

Do you have any other good uses for nicotine (like the axe)?

We have already established that it is a pretty powerful stimulant. Per Duke University Medical Center there is a "growing body of evidence that nicotine actually relieves some symptoms of Parkinson's and Alzheimer's disease, and appears to help those with severe depression focus." They also note that "we might put some of these people on nicotine patches or some type of nicotine replacement therapy for life, because the nicotine itself is not the bad guy - it's the mode of administration" Furthermore "McBride ( director of the cancer prevention, detection and control program at Duke University Medical Center) says the benefits of nicotine itself can be compared to caffeine."