What can I say but...Berkeley?

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
4
81
[Gomer Pyle]Surprise surprise surprise[/Gomer Pyle]

A standing ovation even...


<<
BERKELEY, Calif. - Rep. Barbara Lee, the
lone vote against war following
the Sept. 11 attacks, continued to
sound a drumbeat of dissent as she spoke Monday at
the University of California.

"Peace must be a policy option. It's got to be on the table
at all times. It should be really ... our only option if we
want to turn over to our children a world that is less
dangerous and more secure," she said.

After her Sept. 14 vote against a resolution giving
sweeping war powers to the president, Lee was bitterly
criticized nationally and even faced death threats.

But from the prolonged applause that prefaced her
speech to the standing ovation that followed it, it was
clear that Lee, who earlier this month won the
Democratic primary in the district, remains a local hero
in the liberal San Francisco Bay area.

"She voted her conscience in Congress," Berkeley
Chancellor Robert Berdahl said as he introduced Lee.

The Oakland Democrat was on campus to deliver the
first lecture in a series named after her political mentor
and predecessor, former Congressman Ronald V.
Dellums and much of the speech focused on Dellums'
work for peace.

She also talked about her own efforts in that direction,
including her Sept. 14 vote.

"The lifeblood of democracy is really the right to
dissent," Lee said. "I believed that then as I believe it
today. Casting a 'no' vote was the right vote."

Lee said that when she went to the floor that night, "I
really didn't know that I would be the only person to
stand in opposition to this resolution, but I also knew
that others had stood alone, virtually alone, in the past."

Lee, who has a master's degree in Social Welfare from
Berkeley, called the current federal budget "a disaster"
that spends too much on the military and not enough on
domestic problems.

Security must be improved and terrorists "brought to
justice," Lee said, but "we cannot let the terrible events
of September derail our efforts to contemplate and
complete the unfinished business of America. We still
live in a country where more than 44 million people
have no health care," she said.

Lee urged against expanding the war on terrorism to a
war on Iraq, designated part of an "axis of evil" by Bush
in his January State of the Union speech.

The real danger in the post Sept. 11 political
atmosphere, Lee said, is not dissent but the lack of it.

"What has happened since Sept. 11 is people have been
fearful, naturally, they've been scared and that's
probably why we don't hear an overwhelming amount of
questioning at this point and that is a very dangerous
place to be," she said.

Outside the friendly lecture hall, Berkeley junior Kelly
Nordli offered a dissent of his own, holding up a sign that
read in part, "Drop Barbara Lee."

"She's not willing to defend America and American
lives," he said.
>>

 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,823
1
76
Yeah so what? Sounds like she stood by her opinion. Not that I agree with her completely but she has a couple very good points in there.

Sounds like a fairly good speach.
 

Texmaster

Banned
Jun 5, 2001
5,445
0
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She simply doesn't want to support the war or the troops who are right now risking their lives so she can spit on them and their mission. And she got a standing ovation at Berkeley.

Now, show me where I should be surprised.

Although it was humerous to hear her want "justice" for the terrorists but of course as many Liberals do, she has no plan for getting it done.

 

Texmaster

Banned
Jun 5, 2001
5,445
0
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I ame across this doing a search under her name, Great letter:

An Open Letter to Rep. Barbara Lee

Ms. Lee,

In your letter of explanation posted on commondreams.org, you stated, "I confronted the solemn responsibility of voting to authorize the nation to go to war. Some believe this resolution was only symbolic, designed to show national resolve. But I could not ignore that it provided explicit authority, under the War Powers Resolution and the Constitution, to go to war." And further, "In granting these overly broad powers, the Congress failed its responsibility to understand the dimensions of its declaration. I could not support such a grant of war-making authority to the president; I believe it would put more innocent lives at risk."

I found your letter to be offensive both politically and personally. Not only have you, as an elected official, committed the most grievous of errors, you have done so at a time that makes it beyond reprehensible.

Let me explain my choice of terms.

I found your explanation offensive politically because you, as an elected official, placed in office at the whim of your constituents to vote their will, have abrogated that responsibility by ignoring the will of the people and instead voting your own twisted, personal agenda. You have violated the spirit of the office and in doing so, deserve to be recalled. It is my fervent hope that your constituents see your actions in the same way.

I found your explanation offensive personally because I abhor people who are duplicitous and self-serving. You have proven yourself to be all of the above and more. You were elected to reflect the will of the people, not to promote your own personal agenda. Your self-aggrandizement in using this tragedy as a platform to promote your socialist agenda and doing so at a time when we need, as Americans, to pull together is despicable. Your blatant attempt to call attention to yourself during this crisis is a sign of your disrespect for the system you represent, the people who elected you, and those that pay your salary.

We are facing a disaster of unprecedented proportions. Never have so many American lives been lost at one time and in one place. The one good thing to come out of a tragedy of this magnitude is that it has allowed, nay, forced us to overcome political, racial, religious, and economic barriers. Never have we been as united as we are today. Never have we set aside our differences and in a manner so open as to defy reason or prediction.

Then there is you. Your act shows that you cannot be one of us. Your act shows that you think so little of us and hold your own ideals and intellect above that of the Americans you represent, above your fellow Congresspersons, above our leaders, their advisors, clerics, and experts.

The only other explanation that I can conceive is that you just cannot stand to see us unite and set aside our differences. You cannot stand that the divisiveness of the past can be overcome and that your career, built on that same divisiveness, is in danger. You, like other demagogues around the world, feed on hate and pain and anger.

Let me be the first to tell you that you will not succeed. Your lone voice of dissent will not sway the right-thinking Americans who cherish their country, their freedom, and their way of life. You will not cause us to fight among ourselves and you will not weaken the spirit that is stronger now than it has ever been. You will not finish the job that the terrorists started.

We will have our retribution. We will hunt down and destroy the animals that attacked us because to do anything else would be to admit defeat. If you learn one thing about this country, Ms. Lee, learn this: We will never give up. We will not be destroyed by enemies from outside of our borders and we will not be divided by enemies from within.

David Slocum
Patriot


 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
4
81


<< Yeah so what? Sounds like she stood by her opinion. Not that I agree with her completely but she has a couple very good points in there.

Sounds like a fairly good speach.
>>



You would think hers being the one dissenting vote would mean something..

what was it 465-1

her beef was that 44 million in america did not have health care..

Are these people here legally and if so, there is something called a free clinic for those welfare recipients and low income people who can't afford benefits. Where there is a will there is a way unless you are illegal...then they would probably fix them up before they deported them..

Those that can do do...those that are too lazy to do leach
 

Texmaster

Banned
Jun 5, 2001
5,445
0
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<<

<< Yeah so what? Sounds like she stood by her opinion. Not that I agree with her completely but she has a couple very good points in there.

Sounds like a fairly good speach.
>>



You would think hers being the one dissenting vote would mean something..

what was it 465-1

her beef was that 44 million in america did not have health care..

Are these people here legally and if so, there is something called a free clinic for those welfare recipients and low income people who can't afford benefits. Where there is a will there is a way unless you are illegal...then they would probably fix them up before they deported them..

Those that can do do...those that are too lazy to do leach
>>




85% of all Children Born in the biggest hospital in Dallas are from Non English Speaking Illegal Aliens.

15% of all violent Criminals in California Jails are Illegal Aliens

This is the reality.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,744
6,761
126
<<Then there is you. Your act shows that you cannot be one of us. Your act shows that you think so little of us and hold your own ideals and intellect above that of the Germans you represent, above your fellow Nazis, above our leaders, their advisors, clerics, and experts.>>

The definition of a hero.
 

Texmaster

Banned
Jun 5, 2001
5,445
0
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<< <<Then there is you. Your act shows that you cannot be one of us. Your act shows that you think so little of us and hold your own ideals and intellect above that of the Germans you represent, above your fellow Nazis, above our leaders, their advisors, clerics, and experts.>>

The definition of a hero.
>>



Belittling 3000 lives lost by ignoring the incident and condemning any action taken is not the definition of a hero.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
4
81


<< <<Then there is you. Your act shows that you cannot be one of us. Your act shows that you think so little of us and hold your own ideals and intellect above that of the Germans you represent, above your fellow Nazis, above our leaders, their advisors, clerics, and experts.>>

The definition of a hero.
>>



You calling Hitler a hero?
 

Does anyone at Berkley have a clue? What is it about that school that makes (seemingly) everyone who attends a flippin' idiot?
 

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
26,521
2
0


<< Does anyone at Berkley have a clue? What is it about that school that makes (seemingly) everyone who attends a flippin' idiot? >>


Actually, there are plenty of brilliant people at Berkley (their Bio department comes to mind), it's just that they have always had this very vocal group on the far left of the spectrum politics-wise. Since they're the most outrageous, they get all kinds of press and thus some small-minded people think that's how everyone at Berkley conducts themselves.
rolleye.gif


Fausto
 



<< they get all kinds of press and thus some small-minded people think that's how everyone at Berkley conducts themselves >>



I think I am insulted :)

The girl I am seeing is a Berkley alumni, trust me, it will be the thing that breaks us up.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
4
81


<<

<< Does anyone at Berkley have a clue? What is it about that school that makes (seemingly) everyone who attends a flippin' idiot? >>


Actually, there are plenty of brilliant people at Berkley (their Bio department comes to mind), it's just that they have always had this very vocal group on the far left of the spectrum politics-wise. Since they're the most outrageous, they get all kinds of press and thus some small-minded people think that's how everyone at Berkley conducts themselves.
rolleye.gif


Fausto
>>



Theres a few good apples there and alot of intelligent but more left than a Baldwin that can't see the tree for the forest..

Berkeley breeds the type of people who could spend a week writing a 300 page thesis on if a tree fell in the forest, would anyone hear it vs the kind who would volunteer at a soup kitchen(not that I'm knocking it..I would in a heartbeat) rather than donate a weeks paycheck as a programmer for a grand or two..Whereas an engineer or someone on the right would analyze the situation thinking the money would be more important..the 2000 dollars would go alot farther than a week of my time doing menial labor...not to mention I can write it off on my taxes...

I could never go to school there and feel very sorry for those that do that aren't Baldwinish...that would be like old Arnie Schwartzenegger going to his wife's family get together
 

Texmaster

Banned
Jun 5, 2001
5,445
0
0


<<

<< Does anyone at Berkley have a clue? What is it about that school that makes (seemingly) everyone who attends a flippin' idiot? >>


Actually, there are plenty of brilliant people at Berkley (their Bio department comes to mind), it's just that they have always had this very vocal group on the far left of the spectrum politics-wise. Since they're the most outrageous, they get all kinds of press and thus some small-minded people think that's how everyone at Berkley conducts themselves.
rolleye.gif


Fausto
>>



Oh Please.

There is no doubt in anyone's mind that Berkeley is one of the most Liberal schools in the country. To put on some show thats its only a small minorirty and then insult people who come to this logical conclusion doesn't make you look very bright.
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,389
29
91


<< <<Then there is you. Your act shows that you cannot be one of us. Your act shows that you think so little of us and hold your own ideals and intellect above that of the Germans you represent, above your fellow Nazis, above our leaders, their advisors, clerics, and experts.>>

The definition of a hero.
>>



No, that's the "definition" of a liar's argument.

Alas, I forget, honesty is not your forte' is it Moonbeam? While your "quoted" piece would hold true the definition of a "hero", your "quote" isn't really a quote, nor is it an accurate representation of that which it was based upon.

How typical, and how very sad. I'm almost beginning to feel pity.......


Oh, and as far as Ms. Lee is concerned.......a degree in "social welfare", how amusing.
 

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
26,521
2
0


<< Please. There is no doubt in anyone's mind that Berkeley is one of the most Liberal schools in the country. To put on some show thats its only a small minorirty and then insult people who come to this logical conclusion doesn't make you look very bright. >>


Have you ever been to Berkeley? Have you ever even been out of Texas, for that matter? Yes, they are absolutely one of the most liberal schools around (there's a reason they call it "Berserkeley"), but it's not like everyone runs around protesting something or other 24-7. Calling your opinion the "logical conclusion" based solely on what you read in the paper is ridiculous. And I'm sorry if you're all insulted now, but I'm not the one who apparently looks through the AP every day for something to rip on Berkley about. I think it's pathetic that you spend so much time here pontificating about Berkley/Clinton/etc and yet apparently spend zero time actually doing anything about it. If you're so passionate about your political ideals, get up from the computer and put your money and time where your mouth is. Armchair politicians are annoying.

Fausto
 

Hubris

Platinum Member
Jul 14, 2001
2,749
0
0
So, she chooses her own vote, in her own mind, and she's lambasted for it? What the hell is that? So she doesn't agree with you; leave her the fvck alone. And that letter about her not voting her constituents desires is crap, since she won the primary afterwards.


Look, I'm as patriotic as the next guy, and while I don't have a flag on my car to PROVE it, I'll support this government right up until the time that I think it's gone too far. And that's what she did. How can you crucify her for that? That's what this damn country is FOUNDED upon.

The people at Berkeley supporting her means very little. So they're ultra-liberal; so what. I've thought that a lot of the things they've supported in the past have been foolish in the extreme, but they certainly shouldn't be censored for their beliefs. Neither should anyone else.

Are you saying that this woman should have voted with everyone else, even though it went against her own inner voice? Let her vote how she will; that's the very foundation of freedom. If she was so far off in her estimation of the beliefs of her constituency, they will vote her the hell out of office next time around.
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,389
29
91


<< If she was so far off in her estimation of the beliefs of her constituency, they will vote her the hell out of office next time around. >>



I think that's the whole point of the thread and the general Berkeley bashing. Apparently Ms. Lee does a wonderful job at representing her constituents.

As much as she's entitled to be critical, I believe I should also have the same right to voice my criticism of her as well, eh?
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0


<< So, she chooses her own vote, in her own mind, and she's lambasted for it? What the hell is that? So she doesn't agree with you; leave her the fvck alone >>


So it's OK for her to say what she wants but it's not OK for anyone to criticize her.
 

Texmaster

Banned
Jun 5, 2001
5,445
0
0


<<

<< Please. There is no doubt in anyone's mind that Berkeley is one of the most Liberal schools in the country. To put on some show thats its only a small minorirty and then insult people who come to this logical conclusion doesn't make you look very bright. >>


Have you ever been to Berkeley? Have you ever even been out of Texas, for that matter?
>>



I've lived in England, France, Educador, LA, Milwaukee and Chicago.

Might want to rethink that insult. LOL



<< Yes, they are absolutely one of the most liberal schools around (there's a reason they call it "Berserkeley"), but it's not like everyone runs around protesting something or other 24-7. Calling your opinion the "logical conclusion" based solely on what you read in the paper is ridiculous. >>



Thats right. I and other base it off events that happen at Berkeley, from this latest standing ovation for a socialist, to the a conservative paper being raided and papers destroyed, to a school funded sexuality program that took the class off campus into strip clubs.

So yesm, I base it off the paper and televison because they report what happens there. Your arguement makes no sense.



<< And I'm sorry if you're all insulted now, but I'm not the one who apparently looks through the AP every day for something to rip on Berkley about. I think it's pathetic that you spend so much time here pontificating about Berkley/Clinton/etc and yet apparently spend zero time actually doing anything about it. If you're so passionate about your political ideals, get up from the computer and put your money and time where your mouth is. Armchair politicians are annoying. >>



Actually I think you are the more pathetic one trying to screw the truth. Berkeley is one of the most liberal colleges in America, PERIOD. This latest incident doesn't change that fact and your pathetic attempt at demeaning people who bring the facts to the table makes you look angry and ignorant.


 

Texmaster

Banned
Jun 5, 2001
5,445
0
0


<<

<< So, she chooses her own vote, in her own mind, and she's lambasted for it? What the hell is that? So she doesn't agree with you; leave her the fvck alone >>


So it's OK for her to say what she wants but it's not OK for anyone to criticize her.
>>



If you Liberals don't read anything else here, READ THIS.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
4
81


<< So, she chooses her own vote, in her own mind, and she's lambasted for it? What the hell is that? So she doesn't agree with you; leave her the fvck alone. And that letter about her not voting her constituents desires is crap, since she won the primary afterwards.


Look, I'm as patriotic as the next guy, and while I don't have a flag on my car to PROVE it, I'll support this government right up until the time that I think it's gone too far. And that's what she did. How can you crucify her for that? That's what this damn country is FOUNDED upon.

The people at Berkeley supporting her means very little. So they're ultra-liberal; so what. I've thought that a lot of the things they've supported in the past have been foolish in the extreme, but they certainly shouldn't be censored for their beliefs. Neither should anyone else.

Are you saying that this woman should have voted with everyone else, even though it went against her own inner voice? Let her vote how she will; that's the very foundation of freedom. If she was so far off in her estimation of the beliefs of her constituency, they will vote her the hell out of office next time around.
>>



Leave her alone?? She is the one making speeches and doing the voicing of her opinion.

I don't have a flag on my car either because I did not have one before the 9/11, so I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon simply because everyone else is doing it...

She got reelected because of the sheer number of liberals in Berkeley. I would open up a combination Berkinstock store and fondu restaurant there but I could not be with that many liberals a day and remain sane.

Just because you hear an inner voice doesn't mean you have to listen to it and take what it says as the gospel...There is something called a sacrifice for a greater good. If what I hear as an inner voice is harmful biting and downright treasonous am I going to voice the opinion...Hell no..If I'm an elected congressman and get my paycheck from the United States of America, am I going to slap it in the face by listening to the voice and voting against what 99.9999999% of true Americans wanted...No again. Only in Berkeley..maybe Chapel Hill would she be reelected...and as for Berkeley not protesting something 24/7 I say that is BS...you name a day of the week or hour of the day when they aren't holding up picket signs or making them, writing a protest letter, holding rallies or organizing some anti-fur/war/pollution/<insert your cause here because we are Berkeley and we will protest anything. We protest more before 6AM than most Dubya lovers will do in a lifetime>

It's called common courtesy to those that were victimized by 9-11 either directly or indirectly...Swallow your pride and think about those 300 firemen who died while risking their lives to save others. Think about those civilians on the plane in Pennsylvania who refused to listen to their inner voice which was afraid, then rose up and struck a blow for America in one its darkest hours.

Bottom line is "Support America not your selfish inner voice."
 

novon

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
3,711
0
0
every new great idea is critisized by close-minded people in the beginning, I applaud her bravery.
 

Hubris

Platinum Member
Jul 14, 2001
2,749
0
0
>>So it's OK for her to say what she wants but it's not OK for anyone to criticize her. <<

No, that's not what I meant. My point was merely that roasting her over the fire for doing something that is the contitutionally protected right of people in this country is foolish. Are you saying that if you received DEATH THREATS for voicing your opinion, you'd be fine with it? Well then, you're a better person than me. Disagree with her politics, that's fine, but don't bitch about the fact that she voiced her opinion. That's what this country is all about.

And for the love of god, don't paint me as a liberal. I happen to form my own views on subjects INDEPENDENT of political parties. On some issues, I see things liberally and on some conservatively.
 

novon

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
3,711
0
0


<< And for the love of god, don't paint me as a liberal. I happen to form my own views on subjects INDEPENDENT of political parties. On some issues, I see things liberally and on some conservatively. >>



Right on, I've expressed my views on maybe a few main subjects on these boards and I'm automatically labeled "liberal." I hate labels.