What brought down WTC7

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LunarRay

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Mar 2, 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LunarRay
So, one can prove the official version true...

No, no one can, just like no one can prove the claim "the Earth is flat" true, because both are flagrantly false.

I know a few atheists who state that the existence of God is not only false but flagrantly false while others worship that same God.
You start with the notion that something is false, therefore, it can't be true or the reverse. I prefer to start with the notion that I might be convinced that something is true/false (Proved) if the evidence that meets my criteria for proof is there... or I may simply have faith that it is true/false... not a shred of evidence needed there.
I don't go swimming cuz I have faith the Earth if flat and don't want to fall off and I reject all evidence to the contrary.

If you can accept that you can accept how some folks can easily grasp on to the NIST thingi and others the Truther thingi.
 
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kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
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You start with the notion that something is false, therefore, it can't be true or the reverse.
No, I started with the evidence, and reached a logical conclusion for there.

I prefer to start with the notion that I might be convinced that something is true/false (Proved) if the evidence that meets my criteria for proof is there...
What criteria for proof are you holding out for? If you came home to find all your furniture rearranged, and I suggested the wind from an open window likely did it, would you hold on to the notion that I might be proven right?
 

Sinsear

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Jan 13, 2007
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does wallboard and the "corrosion" of 15.9 mm of a36 steel in 8 days have potential ground in real science?
It could be grounded in real science. First you have to prove that the steel wasn't already corroded prior to 9/11. If you don't show that then you are automatically assuming that the steel was in perfect condition on 9/11, an assumption that may not be true. iow, you aren't ruling out all other realistic possibilities prior to making your statement, which really isn't science.
 
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You know TLC incessantly misrepresented me as having copied math, and even misrepresented himself as having proved as much, yet you take him at his word making claims of others lacking creditability?
Actually, here is what I've said about your "math."

I already did prove otherwise. Your problem is assuming that using the math that someone else provided and doing simple 8th grade substitution qualifies it as your own math. Being able to perform simple substitution does not make it your own math. The hard part is knowing what math applies in the first place and you do not, which is why you have not, and continually refuse, to bring any of your own "math" into this thread. You'd get severely owned if you even tried because you've already clearly demonstrated how ignorant you are of even basic principles regarding both math and physics. So drop the pretenses already. You haven't fooled anyone but yourself in here.
But feel free to prove me wrong. Show your math. Amaze us all. That's all you have to do and you'd sure make me and a few others look the fool, wouldn't you? But you continually refuse to show any meaningful math, making yourself look the fool instead. Keep stomping your foot like some petulant 4 year old over the issue too. Way to stay classy.
 
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There are a few more than Jones... He was tenured, I think. I think he retired but his and that Dane Assoc Prof in Chemicals did get their paper published.
I find another fellow... a Ship damage guy.. Andres something to be interesting... His position, as I understand it, suggests that 1/10 of a structure can't collapse the 9/10 portion from gravity alone... I guess cuz of the equal and opposite force when they met would destroy the top bit or it would bounce off or just sit there... eventually. But the French technique sorta does that albeit to itty bittier buildings.. but he maintains it to be true.. Wish I understood the difference. There is a Dr. Wood who thinks laser beams from someplace did it. She taught at Clemson... is quite brilliant and equally insane... There are all manner of theories out there..
I'm stuck with knowing.. the top 15 floors of the WTC Tower had 2 gjoules of potential energy and needed only 230 or so mjoules to pulverize the first floor below concrete.. that is fact as far as I'm concerned but is that enough to sustain a crush down without itself being torn up? It looks to be undergoing destruction in the initial meeting... What I know to be true is the buildings did collapse... AND, Moonbeams termites did not cause it... They were in Afghanistan eating caves!
BYU forced Jones to retire by giving him an ultimatum - 'retire or we fire you.'

btw, here's some more information on Jones and some of the others you mentioned above.

http://www.debunking911.com/jones.htm

As far as Jones' "peer reviewed" articles on 9/11:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones

Jones has been interviewed by mainstream news sources and has made a number of public appearances. While Jones has urged caution in drawing conclusions,[25] some believe that his public comments have suggested a considerable degree of certainty about both the controlled demolition of the World Trade Center and the culpability of elements within the U.S. government.[26] In one interview, he asserted that the attacks were "an 'inside job', puppeteered by the neoconservatives in the White House to justify the occupation of oil-rich Arab countries, inflate military spending, and expand Israel."[27] His name is often mentioned in reporting about 9/11 conspiracy theories.[28]

Jones has published several papers suggesting that the World Trade Center was demolished with explosives, but his 2005 paper, "Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Collapse?" was his first paper on the topic and was considered controversial both for its content and its claims to scientific rigor.[29] Jones' early critics included members of BYU's engineering faculty;[30] shortly after he made his views public, the BYU College of Physical and Mathematical Sciences and the faculty of structural engineering issued statements in which they distanced themselves from Jones' work. They noted that Jones' "hypotheses and interpretations of evidence were being questioned by scholars and practitioners," and expressed doubts about whether they had been "submitted to relevant scientific venues that would ensure rigorous technical peer review."[31]
Jones maintained that the paper was peer-reviewed prior to publication within a book "9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out" by D.R. Griffin[32] The paper was published in the online peer-reviewed, "Journal of 9/11 Studies", a journal co-founded and co-edited by Jones for the purpose of "covering the whole of research related to 9/11/2001." The paper also appeared in Global Outlook,[33] a magazine "seeking to reveal the truth About 9/11"[34] and in a volume of essays edited by David Ray Griffin and Peter Dale Scott.[35]

In April 2008, Jones, along with four other authors, published a letter in The Bentham Open Civil Engineering Journal, titled, 'Fourteen Points of Agreement with Official Government Reports on the World Trade Center Destruction'[36]. In August 2008, Jones, along with Kevin Ryan and James Gourley, published a peer-reviewed article in The Environmentalist, titled, 'Environmental anomalies at the World Trade Center: Evidence for energetic materials'.[37] And in April 2009, Jones, along with Niels H. Harrit and 7 other authors published a paper in The Open Chemical Physics Journal, titled, 'Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe'.[38] The editor of the journal, Professor Marie-Paule Pileni, an expert in explosives[39] and nano-technology[40], resigned as she received media inquiries about the article shortly after its publication. [41] Also of note, Bentham Publishing's peer review process has been drawn into question. [42]
Seems Jones' peer review process for his papers is a bit shady.
 

event8horizon

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Nov 15, 2007
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It could be grounded in real science. First you have to prove that the steel wasn't already corroded prior to 9/11. If you don't show that then you are automatically assuming that the steel was in perfect condition on 9/11, an assumption that may not be true. iow, you aren't ruling out all other realistic possibilities prior to making your statement, which really isn't science.

thats a good one. so this piece the good dr saw was already burned and buckled maybe even yrs before the fires?? your really reaching man.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/02/science/scarred-steel-holds-clues-and-remedies.html

"One piece Dr. Astaneh-Asl saw was a charred horizontal I-beam from 7 World Trade Center, a 47-story skyscraper that collapsed from fire eight hours after the attacks. The beam, so named because its cross-section looks like a capital I, had clearly endured searing temperatures. Parts of the flat top of the I, once five-eighths of an inch thick, had vaporized.

Less clear was whether the beam had been charred after the collapse, as it lay in the pile of burning rubble, or whether it had been engulfed in the fire that led to the building's collapse, which would provide a more telling clue.

The answer lay in the beam's twisted shape. As weight pushed down, the center portion had buckled outward.

''This tells me it buckled while it was attached to the column,'' not as it fell, Dr. Astaneh-Asl said, adding, ''It had burned first, then buckled.''



well, we know that it was attacked by a "slag" consisting of iron, oxygen, and sulfur. sisson could only get "little" metal to be removed by this fashion in 24hrs. what dr astaneh saw was only 8 days after the attack. 15.9 mm of a36 steel that had "vaporized". maybe you need to check into how much sulfur there needs to be for a eutectic to form........still pushing wallboard after reading this?
heres a good link:
http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/200704/JLobdillThermiteChemistryWTC.pdf
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
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No, I started with the evidence, and reached a logical conclusion for there.


What criteria for proof are you holding out for? If you came home to find all your furniture rearranged, and I suggested the wind from an open window likely did it, would you hold on to the notion that I might be proven right?

Regarding WTC7, I presume the evidence you examined is the same as what has been seen by others. You, therefore, conclude as you do by interpreting that evidence in a manner that enables you to state as you do and it is contrary to some other conclusion. You both maintain the other side is not only wrong but flagrantly wrong.
My point is that if you have the Scientific background to do that chore and used the Scientific Method you can support your theory in a Scientifically oriented grouping. IF you do not have that Scientific background and still reach that conclusion your bias one way or another enabled you to adopt that theory more readily than some other theory. It does not mean that you or anyone else is wrong but, rather, HOW you and they arrived at their conclusions. Bias is a strong force. Bias is myopic. Bias is bigoted... generally.
How can you hope to discuss this with folks who base their conclusion on bias if you base it on the Scientific Method?
The folks here on AT have bias too... and some have enough background to assert one way or another using a Scientific Method and it is up to you to determine which is who and respond or not respond accordingly.
TLC wants to see you prove your theory. He does this while maintaining that NIST has proved their's. IF NIST has proved their theory to be true how can there be another theory that is also true if it is totally opposite of NIST's? TLC is totally confident that you can't prove anything contrary to NIST and that to maintain that you can is 'Trolling'. So... you are at the stage of debate that is mandated in these circumstances... You say NIST is wrong and he says Truthers are wrong... Hello Walls! I've come to bang my head again you again...

Regarding my furniture displacement. I'd presume some force yet to be determined has caused my furniture to have been displaced from what I recall was its last position. Now then, I've some friends who indicate a tornado came out of a bottle and moved that furniture to where I found it. I look at my nice hardwood floors and see scratches on them. I also see my 80 lb Pit Bull and both Silkies trying to remove teeth marks from the legs of the furniture... When questioned they indicate in a sheepish manner that they are trying to put the furniture back in place... My initial thoughts go to the weight of the couch... how on earth can a dog move a 300 lb couch... I know a tornado can...
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
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Seems Jones' peer review process for his papers is a bit shady.

Both sides are pointing to the umbrella. I'm sorta looking at the clouds and trees that seem to block the sun light and thus create shade too.
My bias in this goes both ways... incredible as that may sound...
How can evidence be termed anecdotal if it is not even looked at? How can professional engineers on both sides be so far away from each other? How can folks conclude the Government 'did it' with out incontrovertible evidence regarding the how? Heck, all I can see are videos of stuff falling... everyone can see them. Why do the videos prove one side and also the other or do they?
Even IF we had a 100 million $ effort that went to the How... It ain't like stains on Monica's dress... that cost us 60 million $. The same groups of professionals will still argue the same interpretations as they do now. You and I will be convinced of what is truth based on each of our own bias and scientific skills... We will have paddled all the way around the earth and arrived at where we started...
"Back and to the left" will never ever leave my mind... I've seen live humans hit by stuff... and I also know that 'free fall' knows no Resistance.
 
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thats a good one. so this piece the good dr saw was already burned and buckled maybe even yrs before the fires?? your really reaching man.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/02/science/scarred-steel-holds-clues-and-remedies.html

"One piece Dr. Astaneh-Asl saw was a charred horizontal I-beam from 7 World Trade Center, a 47-story skyscraper that collapsed from fire eight hours after the attacks. The beam, so named because its cross-section looks like a capital I, had clearly endured searing temperatures. Parts of the flat top of the I, once five-eighths of an inch thick, had vaporized.

Less clear was whether the beam had been charred after the collapse, as it lay in the pile of burning rubble, or whether it had been engulfed in the fire that led to the building's collapse, which would provide a more telling clue.

The answer lay in the beam's twisted shape. As weight pushed down, the center portion had buckled outward.

''This tells me it buckled while it was attached to the column,'' not as it fell, Dr. Astaneh-Asl said, adding, ''It had burned first, then buckled.''



well, we know that it was attacked by a "slag" consisting of iron, oxygen, and sulfur. sisson could only get "little" metal to be removed by this fashion in 24hrs. what dr astaneh saw was only 8 days after the attack. 15.9 mm of a36 steel that had "vaporized". maybe you need to check into how much sulfur there needs to be for a eutectic to form........still pushing wallboard after reading this?
heres a good link:
http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/200704/JLobdillThermiteChemistryWTC.pdf
No need to reguritate that same link you've been posting and doting on for at least two years now. We saw it the last 500 times you copied and pasted it.

Nor did I claim the piece was buckled and burned. I said "corroded." Prove that piece of steel wasn't already corroded from other processes (like exposure to salt air, rust from moisture, etc.) prior to 9/11. Then you have a firm ground to make your claim that it corroded only during and after the WTC7 fire and collapse.

I know it takes you way out of your comfort zone when you actually have to come to a finding/conclusion of your own, use some analytical skills and critical thinking, and you don't have anything to copy & paste that someone else wrote, but do try to give it your best shot.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
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Nor did I claim the piece was buckled and burned. I said "corroded." Prove that piece of steel wasn't already corroded from other processes (like exposure to salt air, rust from moisture, etc.) prior to 9/11. Then you have a firm ground to make your claim that it corroded only during and after the WTC7 fire and collapse.


How about.... it was covered with fire proofing material like the other steel stuffs and no other steel stuff was found to be corroded? Sort of makes it a unique bit of steel it seems to me. [If that is true]
 
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Both sides are pointing to the umbrella. I'm sorta looking at the clouds and trees that seem to block the sun light and thus create shade too.
My bias in this goes both ways... incredible as that may sound...
How can evidence be termed anecdotal if it is not even looked at? How can professional engineers on both sides be so far away from each other? How can folks conclude the Government 'did it' with out incontrovertible evidence regarding the how? Heck, all I can see are videos of stuff falling... everyone can see them. Why do the videos prove one side and also the other or do they?
Even IF we had a 100 million $ effort that went to the How... It ain't like stains on Monica's dress... that cost us 60 million $. The same groups of professionals will still argue the same interpretations as they do now. You and I will be convinced of what is truth based on each of our own bias and scientific skills... We will have paddled all the way around the earth and arrived at where we started...
"Back and to the left" will never ever leave my mind... I've seen live humans hit by stuff... and I also know that 'free fall' knows no Resistance.
We have an overwhelming number of professional engineers on one side whose field of study is directly involved in structural engineering, civil engineering, and the like who disagree with truther contentions. Then we have professionals on the truther side whose fields of study have nothing to do with the disciplines I listed above who have jumped in with both feet. Steven Jones has no background in structural engineering, architecture, or detonations, yet opines as an expert on the subject. "Dr." Griffin has written numerous articles on the collapse yet his field of expertise is theology and philosophy. One thing they do both have in common is a paranoia about government and a hatred of the Bush admin and an admitted fear of Neocons.

Personally, I tend to believe the experts that are actual experts, ones without a political agenda to fuel their beliefs and bias their findings. Jones, Griffin, and the rest do not fit in that category.
 
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How about.... it was covered with fire proofing material like the other steel stuffs and no other steel stuff was found to be corroded? Sort of makes it a unique bit of steel it seems to me. [If that is true]
That brings up another issue. First though, not all steel in WTC7 was fire-proofed. Columns, some beams, and floor trusses were but there's no proof that piece of steel came from either of those.

Also, the fact that so few pieces of steel were found with that same corrosion is telling. event8horizon likes to imply that the corrossion must have been caused by thermite/thermate/super-thermite/painted on nano-thermite or whatever kind of thermite/thermite is the order of the day for truthers. However, the amount of thermite/thermite required to bring down the buildings would have been massive. Many, many more pieces of steel should have shown that same sort of corrosion, including columns. So where is all the same sort of corossion on those? It should have been in evidence everywhere, not a rarity.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
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We have an overwhelming number of professional engineers on one side whose field of study is directly involved in structural engineering, civil engineering, and the like who disagree with truther contentions. Then we have professionals on the truther side whose fields of study have nothing to do with the disciplines I listed above who have jumped in with both feet. Steven Jones has no background in structural engineering, architecture, or detonations, yet opines as an expert on the subject. "Dr." Griffin has written numerous articles on the collapse yet his field of expertise is theology and philosophy. One thing they do both have in common is a paranoia about government and a hatred of the Bush admin and an admitted fear of Neocons.

Personally, I tend to believe the experts that are actual experts, ones without a political agenda to fuel their beliefs and bias their findings. Jones, Griffin, and the rest do not fit in that category.

I'd have had one great chuckle had NIST engaged David Ray Griffin as the lead Engineer in this 9/11 event... but suspect he'd have been the communicator of findings... had he been engaged...
I've no doubt that NIST had a band of appropriately skilled professionals engaged in the effort. And I think the Truthers do as well if the skills listed are true.
The Bias you mention is overwhelming. I personally see this Bias driven aspect as not totally to do with 9/11 but, rather, to do with today and tomorrow and to end an agenda they want ended. A bit of this 9/11 government/bush/neocon stuff goes a long way to shape tomorrows agenda. Even Obama is tossed in cuz he furthers the original agenda... They are simply saying the government of the neocon is evil... and here's why.... they kill people.
As an aside, I watched David Ray's video on the Pentagon plane... he said B. Olsen did not call Teddy.. and used FBI evidence in the 20th hijacker's trial. They said Olsen did try to call Teddy but it lasted 0 minutes... and he concludes that Olsen did not speak with Teddy... So, I figure what would I do... (Davy Ray said of the 30 something calls only 2 were cell phones) I'd pick up a seat back phone and call Teddy... Does the FBI say that didn't happen?... Davy didn't say that so I'm inclined to think he left that bit out or he'd have said it as proof that Teddy lied....
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
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That brings up another issue. First though, not all steel in WTC7 was fire-proofed. Columns, some beams, and floor trusses were but there's no proof that piece of steel came from either of those.

Also, the fact that so few pieces of steel were found with that same corrosion is telling. event8horizon likes to imply that the corrossion must have been caused by thermite/thermate/super-thermite/painted on nano-thermite or whatever kind of thermite/thermite is the order of the day for truthers. However, the amount of thermite/thermite required to bring down the buildings would have been massive. Many, many more pieces of steel should have shown that same sort of corrosion, including columns. So where is all the same sort of corossion on those? It should have been in evidence everywhere, not a rarity.

There ya go... !!! You should find lots of it... not a single bit of it... Edit: guess it is all in the new Chinese buildings by now... and that is why you can't find more of it... hehehehe Them Crafty NISTites... got rid of all the evidence. :+)
 
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kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
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Regarding WTC7, I presume the evidence you examined is the same as what has been seen by others.
It's what I presented in the OP.

You, therefore, conclude as you do by interpreting that evidence in a manner that enables you to state as you do...
Chrerry-picking from the evidence to to enable a particular conclusion is what our government agencies did, as has been exemplified throughout this thread, the destruction of the steal being an example you just mentioned in a more recent post.

TLC wants to see you prove your theory.
Rather, he wants to pretend I'm speaking of theory rather than fact. Perhaps he just wants to believe that himself, but considering his incessant inaccurate and false statements, It seems more likely knows better but wants to mislead others anyway, playing the game explained here.

Regarding my furniture displacement.
I'm speaking of rearrangement rather than disarrangement. The analogy is in reference to the largely symmetrical fall of WTC7, proving human intervention rather than anything which could be accomplished by metaphorical tornadoes or dogs.

... the amount of thermite/thermite required to bring down the buildings would have been massive.
There ya go... !!! You should find lots of it... not a single bit of it... Edit: guess it is all in the new Chinese buildings by now... and that is why you can't find more of it... hehehehe Them Crafty NISTites... got rid of all the evidence. :+)
Also note that he claimed it would have taken large amounts of thermitic compounds to bring the building down, while also claiming no such substances brought the building down. Surely you can see the contradiction in those two claims?
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
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It's what I presented in the OP.


Chrerry-picking from the evidence to to enable a particular conclusion is what our government agencies did, as has been exemplified throughout this thread, the destruction of the steal being an example you just mentioned in a more recent post.


Rather, he wants to pretend I'm speaking of theory rather than fact. Perhaps he just wants to believe that himself, but considering his incessant inaccurate and false statements, It seems more likely knows better but wants to mislead others anyway, playing the game explained here.


I'm speaking of rearrangement rather than disarrangement. The analogy is in reference to the largely symmetrical fall of WTC7, proving human intervention rather than anything which could be accomplished by metaphorical tornadoes or dogs.


Also note that he claimed it would have taken large amounts of thermitic compounds to bring the building down, while also claiming no such substances brought the building down. Surely you can see the contradiction in those two claims?

Last bit first and so on..
What I gather from that particular context is: The amount of steel showing corrosion etc had to be great if Thermate et. al. was used to down the buildings 1,2, and 7 and that would have resulted in many many bits of steel having the same anomaly. And, concluding that since the evidence of the many bits of steel having the anomaly is not found and no credible proof of Thermate exists none was used... That is what I got from that post excerpt.

There was free fall acceleration. That proves there was no or extremely little resistance to the fall for 105' at least. How the resistance was eliminated has not been proved. NIST claims the sequential collapse probably removed the resistance. Truthers claim that can't be. I can visualize the lower floor transfer truss system above Con Ed's area giving out and enabling a free fall for some duration but not the 105'. I can't see a sequential collapse not being reflected in the facade - in the exterior columns of the faces we can see. Perhaps below what we can see it is visible but then I can't see it.

Evidence support facts. Facts support theories. All the related facts have to support the theory or the theory is quashed. All it takes is one fact to not support a hypothesis to make folks go back to the drawing board. What I see is evidence of free fall and the absence of evidence in the facade that supports MY idea of how a sequential event should have been presented in the video.. but I don't see all the floors so I can't eliminate what I can't see.

It appears NIST et. al. did not accept evidence as credible or that in some cases that it even existed. That what they rejected for what ever reason would tend to NOT support their hypothesis is the lever Truthers point to along with interpretation of the video differently than NIST. People with bias go with the side they are biased toward... Scientists of the Truther movement have evidence that has yet to be linked to the collapse itself... Thermate residue or active thermate seems to have been found in the dust. Others say that is not what it seems to be. I can't independently decide which is what so I have to wait until the body of scientists not only confirm Thermate [it would be nice to have total agreement since it either is or is not there] but also that the Thermate itself is found to be the cutting agent of the 'snapped' steel members [which for the most part are no longer with us].

I just don't see how anyone can look at that WTC7 video and state with certainty that it proves NIST is lying. It may suggest it but not prove it, imo. Add in the other bits of evidence that NIST omits with prejudice but Truthers argue is prima facie and it still requires me to make leaps... but that is me... limited by my expertise.
 
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Also note that he claimed it would have taken large amounts of thermitic compounds to bring the building down, while also claiming no such substances brought the building down. Surely you can see the contradiction in those two claims?
Speak English much? Are you familiar with certain forms of grammar such as past perfect tenses (hint: do a search for past perfect tense + third conditionals)? Apparently you aren't because you can't even seem to understand the grammar to comprehend its usage, and you go on to make yet another foolish statement in this thread purely out of ignorance.

I'm long past being surprised by your idocy at this point. It certainly is entertaining watching you own yourself over and over though.
 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
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Well one can claim anything he wants, but one can't prove the official version true, as it is flagrantly false.

If it was flagrantly false Kyle there would have been another investigation a long time ago.

Unless
!!!!! there is a massive conspiracy to cover up 911 involving the military, the US government, the NYPD, the NYFD, the media, the FBI, the owners of the buildings destroyed, the insurance companies, the British government, the Canadian government and all other governments who helped the US in the war on terror and on and on.

Now look at me in the face and tell me a fucking conspiracy like this is even remotely possible and I will certify you as insane.
 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
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i just noticed that ae911truth.org is up to 952 architectural and engineering professionals!!

http://www.ae911truth.org/

i wonder if that is more than nist has?

Any dumb ass can claim to be some kind of engineer, join their organisationand and presto, ANOTHER "credible" "engineer" joined their rank.

Wow, how impressive.

I bet you and Kyle are members yourselves.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
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What I gather from that particular context is:
Please, look at this statement specifically:

... the amount of thermite/thermite required to bring down the buildings would have been massive.
And please note TLC also claims that the buildings came down without having been rigged to. So, we have two claims:

  • The buildings came down as the resut of the impact damage and fire.
  • Massive rigging would have been required to bring the buildings down had something like thermite been used.
Holding both claims at the same time simply defies logic, as if one believes impact damage and fire could have caused the buildings to come down without any rigging, then one can't reasonably believe a large amount of rigging would have been needed to insure they did come down. Now, please look at the opposite of TLC's claims:
  • The buildings wouldn't have came down from only the impact damage and fire.
  • Massive rigging was required to bring the buildings down.
There is no logical inconsistency between those two claims, and both are quite simply statements of fact.
 
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Please, look at this statement specifically:


And please note TLC also claims that the buildings came down without having been rigged to. So, we have two claims:

  • The buildings came down as the resut of the impact damage and fire.
  • Massive rigging would have been required to bring the buildings down had something like thermite been used.
Holding both claims at the same time simply defies logic, as if one believes impact damage and fire could have caused the buildings to come down without any rigging, then one can't reasonably believe a large amount of rigging would have been needed to insure they did come down. Now, please look at the opposite of TLC's claims:
  • The buildings wouldn't have came down from only the impact damage and fire.
  • Massive rigging was required to bring the buildings down.
There is no logical inconsistency between those two claims, and both are quite simply statements of fact.
Let me 'splain it to you in simple English, and hopefully you can actually grasp it, though I doubt it. Your penchant for comprehending concepts seems to be a bit, well...lacking, to put it nicely.

A massive government conspiracy involving WTC7 would have required them to place massive amounts of thermite/thermate/whatever in order to ensure the building came down. Why? Because there's no way that they could have planned that they would ram planes into WTC1 and WTC2 know that pieces of WTC1 would fall on WTC7, starting fires that couldn't be put out, and disabling the water mains so the firefighters wouldn't have any water to put out the fires, so they only required a tiny bit of thermite in a critical place to bring it down after all the other damage had occurred.

Additionally, the fact they you can't understand why the damage and fires alone would bring down WTC7 demonstrates, yet again, your ignorance. You don't understand the first thing about building structures, building materials, material properties, points of failure, and the physics involved in collapses.

But continue to own yourself in this thread. Your ignorance is nothing if not persistent. That's what stupid tends to be though. Keep it up. Bra-fucking-vo.
 
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