What brought down WTC7

[DrPizza]

<--- just to clarify, I don't have a PhD in mathematics. I considered one at one point, but no, I don't want one. If I were to pursue a PhD, it'd be in physics education. However, I have 2 kids in college (one majoring in physics, the other majoring in construction engineering/management or something like that), and a wife taking courses full time so she can advance even further in her career. Once they're done, then perhaps... But, not until.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
<--- just to clarify, I don't have a PhD in mathematics. I considered one at one point, but no, I don't want one. If I were to pursue a PhD, it'd be in physics education. However, I have 2 kids in college (one majoring in physics, the other majoring in construction engineering/management or something like that), and a wife taking courses full time so she can advance even further in her career. Once they're done, then perhaps... But, not until.

I'm really interested in that puzzle you presented Kyle.. I'm not sure how to determine how off my thinking was just on the push/pull aspect.. If you get a moment could you scan over this below... just a hint as to how off I am would be appreciated.

A puzzle... oh boy! I do love puzzles...
Dam, what is that? A side of a gym or something, a building but only a side view... a bridge??
Under compression or tension... hmmmm
Ok.. let's see... if you push on something you are in compression and if you pull on some thing you are in tension... I think... well.. if my building collapses it is your fault!

I'll try this... ba,fi,ei,ca,dh,dg are compression, (gotta find some pushy stuff)
looks like db and df are doing the same thing... but what is it? dang this kid stuff is hard. I think they are both pulling at the area D... ok I'll guess..
ai,ch,eg ? df, db are tension, (gotta find some pulling stuff)

I assume the o with the mustache below it is a foundation?

Step one... Is my building or is it the London Bridge.. hehehehe going to topple?

I think ch has to pull to transfer load back to a.. but oh well...

Don't give me answers please... this is interesting.. but a way off, sorta off will suffice..

Moonbeam can just look at this stuff and have an answer.. I've to labor through what pushes and pulls and can't tell most of the time... you should label them like NIST does..

Also: I don't know what a "Kips" is. Is it ok to look up a formula on internet? or do I have to somehow do it long hand... assuming I can for the force factors (I'm not presuming I'm right or even close on the push pull thing but want to know if I would normally know a formula at this level?)

A question regarding your post. Would your academic objective fall under an Ed.D.. Is there a program in your neck of the woods for that or do you have to actually do a Ph.D. in a Field and get certified to teach it or how would that work?

I suppose that problem you gave Kyle is probably childs play for most but it really is difficult to trace the load and the tension to what looks like increase a capability to load over to an edge.. but, as I said, I don't know...

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: DrPizza


A puzzle... oh boy! I do love puzzles...

A good one would be understanding the New York City building codes that governed the building in question, and the engineering required to meet the conceptual design requirements of the code. I could be wrong, but I think that the code does cover structural failure scenerios.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Ozoned




A good one would be understanding the New York City building codes that governed the building in question, and the engineering required to meet the conceptual design requirements of the code. I could be wrong, but I think that the code does cover structural failure scenerios.

Are you saying I can get the answer to DrPizza's problem to Kyle from that site? I'm sorta trying to learn from the puzzle so while I thank you for taking the time to post a response I think I need to figure it out with out help from the code itself. Actually, I'm not sure I'd understand the code at this point.

I suppose upon reflection all failure in structure can occur for many reasons and one of which is best understood when one can see a sequence that will occur to the structure regardless of what caused it.. In any event, as you can tell I don't know if I understand that push/pull feature. After I grasp that, I can mosey on over to the suggested site and see what they say.

Edit: hell, I took 7 edits to get my comments out of the quote box... and I'm going to become a stuctural engineer by this thread end.. HA!! ... hehehehhe

 

[JEDIYoda]

I am still wating for one of you know it all twoothers to explain what happenned to the Trans Warp Portal that was hidden under wtc7??????
The US Government won`t even respond to the fact that there was one...

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
I am still wating for one of you know it all twoothers to explain what happenned to the Trans Warp Portal that was hidden under wtc7??????
The US Government won`t even respond to the fact that there was one...

Come on JEDIYoda,

Think!.... Why was there molten metal under the WTC site.... one guess only... and remember not even you could find the TWP...

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
I am still wating for one of you know it all twoothers to explain what happenned to the Trans Warp Portal that was hidden under wtc7??????
The US Government won`t even respond to the fact that there was one...

It was stolen by the tunneling gnomes on 9/11 (the attack was just a distraction) but NIST won't test for them. Tunneling gnomes use thermite to create their tunnels and Prof Jones has proof of thermite. Coincidence? I think not.

Why does our government hate the truth? Why are they protecting the tunneling gnomes? Do the TGs hold something over the head of our government? Or - :gasp: - are high-level members of the government already adherents of the Secret Tunneling Gnome Society?

Woah, like, something to seriously think about.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Cogman
If you have demonstrated anything in this thread, it is that you are in a big argument on matters outside your understanding.

Rather, you keep doing that, such as here:

Originally posted by: Cogman
Dr Pizza provided plenty of examples for you where a dynamic load on a system will cause the system to provide negligible resistance. So what do you do? You attack the PH.d. in math and claim that he doesn't know what he is talking about.

In fact, I pointed out the obvious flaw in DrPizza's examples, and he isn't a Ph.D. in math anyway.

Originally posted by: jonks
Kyle: I'll present my math when someone shows they have the credentials, background and ability to understand it

I never asked for credentials or background, but rather a demonstration of ability. I couldn't care less where the ability might have come from, and respect the difference between claiming to have such abilities and demonstrating as much.

Originally posted by: jonks
No, the truthers formed conclusions of govt conspiracy first and now look to support their conspiracy theories.

In that case, I don't fit your definition of a truther, as I have yet to derive a conclusion on who masterminded the attacks. I originally figured it was al Qaeda, and only suspected some rouge faction within our government had allowed the attacks to happen, exploiting positions of authority rather than operating in accordance with them. So, for that time I doubted that even a portion of our government had been involved in the preparations, let alone the whole of it.

It wasn't until 2005, when I saw video of the fall of WTC7, that came to rethink that position. Knowing then that the official story for that building coming down is patently false, and being reasonably sure that whatever did bring it down took some at least operative within our government to accomplish. I still highly doubt it was "a government conspiracy" though, by our government or any other, and rather it was masterminded by some very wealthy and well connected individuals and their lackeys, comparable to those involved in the Business Plot.

So at this point all I have facts which demonstrate the official conspiracy theory as false, but no conclusions as to who the actual conspirators were, and a desire to find out the truth. This puts me in the position of a truther in my opinion, but as it obviously doesn't fit your definition of the term; what would you call my postion here instead?

Originally posted by: DrPizza
...I have 2 kids in college (one majoring in physics, the other majoring in construction engineering/management or something like that)...

Well, perhaps your kids can help you come to terms with the fact that the examples you provided include a force beyond that of gravity being exerted on the system. Maybe they could even help you come to terms with the fact that WTC7's period of free fall was facilitated by some yet to be explained force(s), but considering how hostile you are to even considering anything of the sort, I won't be holding my breath.

 

[First]

^ lmao. What a pussy.

 

[kylebisme]

Everything looks like a pussy to a mindless dick.

 

[First]

^ ....says the wimp that still can't post his math because he knows he'll get pummeled. Give it up kiddo, you're a permanent laughing stock.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: kylebisme
Well, perhaps your kids can help you come to terms with the fact that the examples you provided include a force beyond that of gravity being exerted on the system.

Post the math and prove it or save your posturing assholishnness for truthers that are ignorant enough to buy that kind of idiotic argument.

 

[kylebisme]

I've posted more math on this subject than all you falsers combined. Granted, one of you falsers had to go dig up that math to post it here, since none of you were able to fulfill my request to demonstrate some comprehension of the math involved by attempting to refute my position mathematically. Until that changes, you can scream like little babies for all I care, I'm not your mommy, and I'm not going to be preparing any bottle to press up to your lips.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: kylebisme
Everything looks like a pussy to a mindless dick.

I won't cede much to you, but when it comes to knowing all about mindless dicks I would consider you to be a highly experienced expert in that field.

btw, still waiting for your math. In fact, in the JREF link you didn't even post your own math. You copied and pasted it from someone else. So, please, feel free now. Astound us all and overwhelm us with your incredible math knowledge that will blow us away.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: Ozoned




A good one would be understanding the New York City building codes that governed the building in question, and the engineering required to meet the conceptual design requirements of the code. I could be wrong, but I think that the code does cover structural failure scenerios.

Are you saying I can get the answer to DrPizza's problem to Kyle from that site? I'm sorta trying to learn from the puzzle so while I thank you for taking the time to post a response I think I need to figure it out with out help from the code itself. Actually, I'm not sure I'd understand the code at this point.

I suppose upon reflection all failure in structure can occur for many reasons and one of which is best understood when one can see a sequence that will occur to the structure regardless of what caused it.. In any event, as you can tell I don't know if I understand that push/pull feature. After I grasp that, I can mosey on over to the suggested site and see what they say.

Edit: hell, I took 7 edits to get my comments out of the quote box... and I'm going to become a stuctural engineer by this thread end.. HA!! ... hehehehhe

Ok, 1st, Throw away AB,BC,EF,FI because they can't carry a load. The rest of the stuff left should be easy for you to see the push and pull.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
btw, still waiting for your math. In fact, in the JREF link you didn't even post your own math. You copied and pasted it from someone else.

Now that's just a flagrant lie, but then one can't expect more from TLC, since as falsers go he is one of the worst of the lot.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
btw, still waiting for your math. In fact, in the JREF link you didn't even post your own math. You copied and pasted it from someone else.

Now that's just a flagrant lie, but then one can't expect more from TLC, since as falsers go he is one of the worst of the lot.

It's no lie. It's plain for everyone to see that wants to bother doing the research.

And you still can't produce the math. Put up or shut up, dumbass. If you could put up you would have already, but you plainly can't, which is why we get nothing but chest puffing from you.

C'mon, do the math or admit you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
btw, still waiting for your math. In fact, in the JREF link you didn't even post your own math. You copied and pasted it from someone else.

Now that's just a flagrant lie...

It's no lie. It's plain for everyone to see that wants to bother doing the research.

Another flagrant lie from one of the worst of the falsers.

 

[Kirby]

Shit, do any math. :laugh:

Kyle versus DrPizza in a math competition. Loser gets banned. I'll put $100 on DrPizza. Who's in?

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: kylebisme
Well, perhaps your kids can help you come to terms with the fact that the examples you provided include a force beyond that of gravity being exerted on the system.

Post the math and prove it or save your posturing assholishnness for truthers that are ignorant enough to buy that kind of idiotic argument.

Can I go out on a limb here and suggest that if you know the particular formula to use then the 'math' required is contained in most hand held calculators or the end of a pencil.. Back when I was less dumb than I am today they used to teach the smart kids Calc and Physics at the same time.. iow, Analytical Geometry AND an appropriate Physics class had to be taken in pairs at least in undergrad. Something like that anyhow.
As an aside, Quite a few Nobel prizes in Economics are given for Math oriented contributions and not for Economics proper.. There isn't a Nobel for Math or wasn't. Well the prize is not really THE Nobel prize I guess they sorta linked it and fund it etc.. My point is, I hope, that I could do the math but I've not a clue what the application/formula is..
So maybe if you Ask Kyle a question that goes to the theory and the laws regarding this WTC 7 building he could explain what force is missing and where. The math applicable might be quite simple if we know what the heck happened that shouldn't have.
My eyes tell me something not right but that is cuz I think what I see can't be while my understanding of what I see is very limited. I know... but still.. it is what it is.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Ok, 1st, Throw away AB,BC,EF,FI because they can't carry a load. The rest of the stuff left should be easy for you to see the push and pull.

Ok, I'll see If I can grasp it. Seems like I don't want to throw out stuff... I'm a pack rat.. hehehehehehe

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Ok, 1st, Throw away AB,BC,EF,FI because they can't carry a load. The rest of the stuff left should be easy for you to see the push and pull.

Ok, I'll see If I can grasp it. Seems like I don't want to throw out stuff... I'm a pack rat.. hehehehehehe

This is what I was looking for.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: nkgreen
Shit, do any math. :laugh:

Kyle versus DrPizza in a math competition. Loser gets banned. I'll put $100 on DrPizza. Who's in?

I don't know... a 1 is a 1 to everyone... hehehe I'll bet anyone who took 'College Algebra' (out here that is a prerequisite to the Calculus Courses AND they are not upper division as I recall.) Can do the 'Math'. Ya need a real live problem and the formula for most problems is right on the internet IF you know what to look for... that is, spell the google right. Kyle said he went to college so I've to assume he's equipped to do all that stuff too related to forces and the like.
Or, I don't know what is meant by the term 'Math'. I think Dr Pizza's problem requires structural insight and the related formula. The math is the easy bit... as I see it.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
btw, still waiting for your math. In fact, in the JREF link you didn't even post your own math. You copied and pasted it from someone else.

Now that's just a flagrant lie...

It's no lie. It's plain for everyone to see that wants to bother doing the research.

Another flagrant lie from one of the worst of the falsers.

You could easily prove me wrong if I'm lying.

Do it or STFU.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Ok, 1st, Throw away AB,BC,EF,FI because they can't carry a load. The rest of the stuff left should be easy for you to see the push and pull.

Ok, I'll see If I can grasp it. Seems like I don't want to throw out stuff... I'm a pack rat.. hehehehehehe

This is what I was looking for.

By George, I get it now... Thanks a million... or more.. really, that site exploded into my mind...

In my experience, I use terms to mean certain things... Like a formula to me is like F=MA and an Equation is a proposition asserting the equality of a couple of quantities. While Math is the entire bucket of stuff within which are found all matter of functions, formula etc...
Over time, their meanings evolve to mean to me stuff maybe a bit other than what the next person understands..

The reason I mention that is that Kyle Math thing.. What specifically are folks wanting to see.. is it the formula... a simple P=MV or the calculation to derive a value at a point along some finite 3 dimensional interrelated steel stuffs? And if that what ever beam or column or ? is removed what happens and where?
Don't the folks demanding the 'math' have to provide the question to be answered?