What brought down WTC7

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: Number1

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: shira
Post #656 4:30 PM, 9/20/09 - Amazingly lame math

lol at kyle getting thoroughly destroyed at JREF. No surprise that the folks there don't buy into his baloney either.

He could not fool the people at that other forum so he had to come here and try again.
He thinks we're idiots obviously.

It's dishonest.
It's ludicrous.

Well he does think you an idiot thats a fact ya got right. But I know for fact your a Fool . How many world First Occurred on 9/11/01. Three building down because of Fire one not even hit and the fire what caused it ? Best think on that. Steal building collapsing from fire 3 times in one day . The first time in history . Says alot about the construction industry and its work force if your views are correct , Which could be fact. Look at the bridge collaspe . BAD construction and maintenance. SO ya it is possiable . If ya want to shift blame on to American construction workers and bought off inspectors .

Than the 2 other planes disintergreating to almost NO debris another world first for airliners.

Ya You can have it what ever way ya want . But its either planned out or its Bad construction and its work force either or , NO in between. Almost all the construction guys I know are heavey druggers so you may be right .

Just out of curiousity any jews here? Mind telling these fine young men what time of year Christ had to be born to fulfill prophecy . If he was your promised messia. It sure as hell wasn'y dec 25 LOL. Was it Sept ?? As I read it its Oct. But I not jew.

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1


Your so funny . Man doesn't KNOW what happened 3,600 years ago . Or its not printed in public . Yet your telling us about what happened in era. By the way ERa is a bible term meaning 1 million years . Ya listen to to many lies . eons era all part of scripture meaning millions of years . Ignorance is somethimes OK . But in your case it a weapon of self destruction .

I have to say I was fairly ruthless with you when I started replying to your comments. I apologize. I tough that you were just trolling but obviously you are serious about what you write.

Do you talk to your friends about your ideas? What do they think?
I would consider talking to a professional about your ideas.

Can I give you some advise. Before you hit the "Reply to Topic" button, read your post again and check for mistakes. Use a spell checker. Firefox has a built in spell checker and it automatically underline in red any spelling mistakes. That would help us understand what you are saying.

I don't know, maybe you can't organize your ideas in a coherent way on your own.


Anyway good luck.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Other than My wife and My family I have not got one friend not one. It has to be this way . I have to take care of someone very important to many of us . Thats part of what I was intended to do . I am the tree. He is the fruit. together you will not like us fact is you will hate us . Friends would get in the way. All must be =. Or no balance .

Ya spelling grammer. It has to be this way I could take the time to neatly prepare things and state things in a statesmen speak . But than you guys might think I not a nut case . Better for ya to believe what ya believe. I just trying to guide ya to do your own thinking and research .

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Your so funny . Man doesn't KNOW what happened 3,600 years ago . Or its not printed in public . Yet your telling us about what happened in era. By the way ERa is a bible term meaning 1 million years . Ya listen to to many lies . eons era all part of scripture meaning millions of years . Ignorance is somethimes OK . But in your case it a weapon of self destruction .

Obviously. You never. Heard. of Hammurabi. Or his code. Or Ancient Mesopotamia.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Ya I know of him, Doesn't the law use a term that derived from his Name .

Thats good 3,600 years ago close. But he not what I was referring to . What else happened . Unless you can tell me Who the First King was . its invalid info . If you get the first King correct than you will know there error in time frame.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Other than My wife and My family I have not got one friend not one. It has to be this way . I have to take care of someone very important to many of us . Thats part of what I was intended to do . I am the tree. He is the fruit. together you will not like us fact is you will hate us . Friends would get in the way. All must be =. Or no balance .

Ya spelling grammer. It has to be this way I could take the time to neatly prepare things and state things in a statesmen speak . But than you guys might think I not a nut case . Better for ya to believe what ya believe. I just trying to guide ya to do your own thinking and research .

Wait wait, you're married?! Does anyone else find this shocking.

Nemesis has GOT to be a screenname for someone else here. Nobody is this crazy, right?

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Number1
That is your math?

OMG

You mean to tell us that your simple formula telling us that the force pushing down on the building is equal to the force pushing down minus the force pushing up?

Wow, it's so hard to understand...:LOL

You're a joke Kyle, but not in the funny sense.

The algebra is sorta funny that way.... hehehehehe The formula is simply insert the 'real' value and there it is... The Math on WTC 7 is so convoluted or confused because of the interrelated bits of structure. "If this happens then the load goes here then there... etc.." There are so many permutations of 'What IF'. IF you asked me to provide the math I'd have asked you for the sequence of distribution. That is where the issue is, imo.
The gal in the NIST video starts out with a comment that states NIST's belief. NIST in almost all their comments refers to 'Most probable', 'Most likely', and terms of that nature. They had as much or a bit more evidence as you and I have access to... but they have much more mind power and the tools to translate what they infer from what they see and hear into a cogent conclusions. I agree with that... They are not village idiots nor are they Co-Conspirators in some Plot to do anything but their best to present the best guess!
My issue with NIST is to do with what evidence did they NOT consider or plug into their SIM thingi. AND, what difference would that make to their 'Most Probable' cause. They determined Explosion was not viable cuz of noise and windows. They performed no tests [to my knowledge and their FAQ statements] on soil, steel, or other potential evidence producing considerations.
They concluded that Thermal Expansion was the major factor in the collapse. Cuz the temp was so low but hot enough to weaken the structure. Well, that fits their conclusions and seems rational. But, the one bit that does not compute in my mind is the video and their conclusion regarding the interior falling apart.
Here is what I see... Notwithstanding all the goings on within the WTC 7 structure the exterior looked rather pristine. (video is deceptive so I indicate 'looked' and 'rather'...) But, at some point the exterior all fell down and from an angle is appears to 'Free Fall' all the way beyond the 105' agreed amount, but accepting 105', and, as ELFenix stated the exterior columns held up the exterior fascia until it was their turn to fall... MY Question on this is... What happened to the columns on the exterior that enabled the exterior to 'Free Fall' assuming no interior and why no significant or observable deformation of the exterior during that process? Just visualize that. The exterior fascia is connected to the exterior columns so should reflect what the exterior columns underwent visually.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: kylebisme
You are talking tons because you are listening to falsers. We are talking about thermite compounds specifically engineered to have a very high mass to force ratio, not your average sparkler dust. Besides, even bog-standard thermite is nasty stuff.

Why use a compound that is primarily used to either fuse or cut steel to take down a skyscraper when it has never been done before and there are far, far better options out there?

What better options for compounds to covertly take down buildings, to the point of many still believing they were gravitationally induced collapses nearly a decade later, are you alluding to specifically? Or were you just not thinking your argument though, like the one about claiming some few published works speak for 95% of the structural engineers from around the world?

Sharp tongue you have, too bad you again completely deflect the point I was trying to make.

You tried to make points out of little more than whole cloth, and until you own up to that I can't rightly expect rational discourse with you.

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Other than My wife and My family I have not got one friend not one. It has to be this way . I have to take care of someone very important to many of us . Thats part of what I was intended to do . I am the tree. He is the fruit. together you will not like us fact is you will hate us . Friends would get in the way. All must be =. Or no balance .

Ya spelling grammer. It has to be this way I could take the time to neatly prepare things and state things in a statesmen speak . But than you guys might think I not a nut case . Better for ya to believe what ya believe. I just trying to guide ya to do your own thinking and research .

Thanks for you honest answer Nemesis 1. If what you write IS what you are then don't change it to something we think it should be.

Cheers.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: kylebisme
You are talking tons because you are listening to falsers. We are talking about thermite compounds specifically engineered to have a very high mass to force ratio, not your average sparkler dust. Besides, even bog-standard thermite is nasty stuff.

Why use a compound that is primarily used to either fuse or cut steel to take down a skyscraper when it has never been done before and there are far, far better options out there?

What better options for compounds to covertly take down buildings, to the point of many still believing they were gravitationally induced collapses nearly a decade later, are you alluding to specifically? Or were you just not thinking your argument though, like the one about claiming some few published works speak for 95% of the structural engineers from around the world?

Sharp tongue you have, too bad you again completely deflect the point I was trying to make.

You tried to make points out of little more than whole cloth, and until you own up to that I can't rightly expect rational discourse with you.

Own up to what?

I'll happily own up to pointing out the massive holes in your story.

I'll happily own up to showing you pretty solid proof that few, if any, engineers disagree with the planes-taking-down-the-towers theory.

I'll happily own up to pointing out the massive contextual flaws with your theory.

The question everyone is dying to know is when you're going to own up to every single piece of evidence here that goes against your theory and when you're going to stop ignoring everyone who says something that you cannot respond to?

Until you do, why are even bothering to post? You're just digging yourself into a deeper hole. The first step to digging yourself out of it is actually responding to the posts that have been made over the last three pages instead of flinging accusations at everyone.

Attack the arguments, not the people.

 

[Nemesis 1]

The First king was Nimrod the first man to have balls enough to claim that Title . Ya see were the Timeline problem is . Nimrod was befor egypt way before . He was right after the Flood. The tower of Bable is what this whole disscussion hinges on . Ya got to think people .

Everthing were discussing here revolves around nimrod and the destruction of the Tower of Bable By GOD . The people were command by God to subdue the planet . Instead they were building a tower up to house the population . BAD BAD BAD .

So now we have the twin towers taken down BY who not GOD. So who than is going to do as GOD command 4,5oo years ago .
They will subdue the earth back to a 1 world government . Just as it was under nimrod . Thats all I can tell ya . More would not be good for ya.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: BeauJangles
Why use a compound that is primarily used to either fuse or cut steel to take down a skyscraper when it has never been done before and there are far, far better options out there?

What better options for compounds to covertly take down buildings, to the point of many still believing they were gravitationally induced collapses nearly a decade later, are you alluding to specifically? Or were you just not thinking your argument though, like the one about claiming some few published works speak for 95% of the structural engineers from around the world?

Sharp tongue you have, too bad you again completely deflect the point I was trying to make.

You tried to make points out of little more than whole cloth, and until you own up to that I can't rightly expect rational discourse with you.

Own up to what?

The imagniare nature of your arguments, the "far better options" claim and your "95% of the structural engineers from around the world" beeing two notable examples.

Originally posted by: BeauJangles
I'll happily own up to pointing out the massive holes in your story.

I'll happily own up to showing you pretty solid proof that few, if any, engineers disagree with the planes-taking-down-the-towers theory.

I'll happily own up to pointing out the massive contextual flaws with your theory.

I've noticed you get joy from believing things which have no basis in reality.

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: LunarRay


The algebra is sorta funny that way.... hehehehehe The formula is simply insert the 'real' value and there it is... The Math on WTC 7 is so convoluted or confused because of the interrelated bits of structure. "If this happens then the load goes here then there... etc.." There are so many permutations of 'What IF'. IF you asked me to provide the math I'd have asked you for the sequence of distribution. That is where the issue is, imo.
The gal in the NIST video starts out with a comment that states NIST's belief. NIST in almost all their comments refers to 'Most probable', 'Most likely', and terms of that nature. They had as much or a bit more evidence as you and I have access to... but they have much more mind power and the tools to translate what they infer from what they see and hear into a cogent conclusions. I agree with that... They are not village idiots nor are they Co-Conspirators in some Plot to do anything but their best to present the best guess!
My issue with NIST is to do with what evidence did they NOT consider or plug into their SIM thingi. AND, what difference would that make to their 'Most Probable' cause. They determined Explosion was not viable cuz of noise and windows. They performed no tests [to my knowledge and their FAQ statements] on soil, steel, or other potential evidence producing considerations.
They concluded that Thermal Expansion was the major factor in the collapse. Cuz the temp was so low but hot enough to weaken the structure. Well, that fits their conclusions and seems rational. But, the one bit that does not compute in my mind is the video and their conclusion regarding the interior falling apart.
Here is what I see... Notwithstanding all the goings on within the WTC 7 structure the exterior looked rather pristine. (video is deceptive so I indicate 'looked' and 'rather'...) But, at some point the exterior all fell down and from an angle is appears to 'Free Fall' all the way beyond the 105' agreed amount, but accepting 105', and, as ELFenix stated the exterior columns held up the exterior fascia until it was their turn to fall... MY Question on this is... What happened to the columns on the exterior that enabled the exterior to 'Free Fall' assuming no interior and why no significant or observable deformation of the exterior during that process? Just visualize that. The exterior fascia is connected to the exterior columns so should reflect what the exterior columns underwent visually.

You remind me of a deer fly. You buzz around constantly and every few minutes you land and try to take a bite. You're just as annoying.

You're always on the edge not taking one side or the other, just trying to seed doubt and demanding answers to an infinite number of speculative questions. One question get answered and you move on to another one and on and on and on.

One would think that by now you would have a fairly good idea of who you want to believe.

As for your question here, if you're not happy with the NIST report then formulate your own theory and produce a report that can be reviewed and analyzed.

Until them no amount of speculation is going to amount to anything remotely credible.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: BeauJangles
Why use a compound that is primarily used to either fuse or cut steel to take down a skyscraper when it has never been done before and there are far, far better options out there?

What better options for compounds to covertly take down buildings, to the point of many still believing they were gravitationally induced collapses nearly a decade later, are you alluding to specifically? Or were you just not thinking your argument though, like the one about claiming some few published works speak for 95% of the structural engineers from around the world?

Sharp tongue you have, too bad you again completely deflect the point I was trying to make.

You tried to make points out of little more than whole cloth, and until you own up to that I can't rightly expect rational discourse with you.

Own up to what?

The imagniare nature of your arguments, the "far better options" claim and your "95% of the structural engineers from around the world" beeing two notable examples.

Originally posted by: BeauJangles
I'll happily own up to pointing out the massive holes in your story.

I'll happily own up to showing you pretty solid proof that few, if any, engineers disagree with the planes-taking-down-the-towers theory.

I'll happily own up to pointing out the massive contextual flaws with your theory.

I've noticed you get joy from believing things which have no basis in reality.

From my last post:

Attack the arguments, not the people.

That might be a hard concept for you, but you do realize that you've done nothing except continue to attack me? If my arguments are such shit then you'd have something to say other than repeatedly attacking me.

Ex: If there aren't "far better options" for demolishing buildings then it wouldn't take you more than six sentences to explain that, but nope. I just get a "I know better than you." You might, but you've sure got to show it. Why not start by showing me buildings that were demolished with thermite? How about articles talking about thermite as a demolition tool? How about addressing the point I raised that there was no true high explosive residue at ground zero?

I already agreed with you that it was wrong to stick a number on the consensus, but I've showed you actual facts that point to a huge consensus. What about that? Care to refute anything I've said, or do you simply know better than everyone else here?




Leveling personal insults doesn't change the fact you've got no answers for any of the questions TLC, Dr. Pizza, Number1, or myself have asked you. I've been the easiest on you. I haven't even bothered to attack your faulty physics. All I've done is ask for some contextualization. I've asked to explain some pretty basic things and you've refused to do so.

That's great and all, but it is just further confirmation that your evidence is anything but "irrefutable" and you, yourself, are more interested in listening to how sweet your arguments sound than realizing that there are serious flaws in your thinking.

Again, I'm not going to engage in petty name-calling. I've avoided throwing around the phrase 'truther' or anything like that. I've tried to treat you with a degree of respect while disagreeing with what you've argued.

This is pretty simple now. You either put up, or you man up and admit you can't answers these questions. There are several posts of the last ~100 or so that should garner your attention. Why not start by responding to those?

Ignore my posts when you respond, I don't really care, but at least start tackling some of the problems that have been raised.

It's time for this petty bullshit to end and it's time for you to stop skirting every serious question asked of you.

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Number1
He could not fool the people at that other forum so he had to come here and try again.
He thinks we're idiots obviously.

It's dishonest.
It's ludicrous.

Number1 your post is Gold!!
It`s amazing that other forums would also be tolerant of Kyle`s mis-guided opinion.....ahhh...this is America...lol
hahahaaa...of course we all knew that Kyle was jumping back and forth between other forums slinging his smelly stuff where ever he thought people would listen...rofl..hahahaaaaaaa

Well thank you, thank you very much.
It feels good to ridicule this moron and in a way it is sad to see people so gullible as Kyle and unable to admit they are wrong.

 

[Number1]

NM

 

[kylebisme]

When I am wrong, I enjoy admitting it, as doing so allows me to better understand reality. Here is a song which might help you come understand the benefit of this yourself.

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: kylebisme
When I am wrong, I enjoy admitting it, as doing so allows me to better understand reality. Here is a song which might help you come understand the benefit of this yourself.

You enjoy admitting you're wrong?

Wow is that why you're making so many incredible claims in this thread? So you can admit you are wrong an unheard of number of time?

Are you going for a Guinness world record?

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: kylebisme
When I am wrong, I enjoy admitting it, as doing so allows me to better understand reality. Here is a song which might help you come understand the benefit of this yourself.

How can you even pretend you read what I wrote? It's clear your only interest is now burying your head in the sand as deep as it will go and hoping that everyone leaves you alone long enough so you can some triumphant claim about how you were right and everyone else was wrong.

If you don't want to deal with me, fine. That doesn't excuse you from answering ANY of the other posts in this thread.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Number1
...you're making so many incredible claims in this thread?

Please quote whatever you belive is the best example of what you are accusing me of here.

 

[BeauJangles]

And if you think I'm wrong, prove it.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles
If you don't want to deal with me, fine. That doesn't excuse you from answering ANY of the other posts in this thread.

I'm pretty sure I've responded to every post which addresses WTC7's period of free fall acceleration. If I have overlooked something in that regard, then please quote it and I will be happy to address it. If you don't want to discuss the topic of the thread, that is no excuse for you to go droning with nonsense arguments which fail to address it, and I have no obligation to answer to anything of the sort.

 

[First]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: DrPizza
I teach physics. I am a calculus professor. I majored in ceramic engineering (materials engineering) at Alfred University - the #1 school in the world for ceramic engineering at the time. Before you dismiss that engineering field as being irrelevant, consider that it requires extensive knowledge about the mechanics of materials, loads, etc. Subsequent to that, I decided to return to school to major in applied mathematics. I graduated summa cum laude & was ranked #1 in my university during my junior year. My conceptual understanding of physics is exceptional. Please, make with the math.

As I noted previously, I already have the math posted and timestamped elsewhere on the net under this same username, and I have promised to present it just as soon as someone makes a mathematical argument which demonstrates some semblance of understanding of the physics involved. Absent that, presenting the math would be pointless, and while credentials you list suggest you have been exposed to the necessary understanding, as long as you insist on refuting my position verbally rather than mathematically, I'm going to stick to responding in kind.

Oh, gee willickers. Do you mean THIS "math":

Post #656 4:30 PM, 9/20/09 - Amazingly lame math

an object of mass 'm' drops under the influence of gravity

the force on the mass due to gravity is Fg=mg

along the way another force acts in the opposite direction so it is a negative vector here.
call it the resistive force -Fr

The total force on the object is
Ft=Fg+(-Fr)
Ft=Fg-Fr

The resultant acceleration is given by
Ft=ma
Fg-Fr=ma

Fg=mg, so in the last equation we can substitute mg for Fg to get:

mg-Fr=ma

As NIST noted in what I quoted above, the distance traveled for a period of 2.25 seconds was not distinguishable from free fall. As free fall is a situation where the resistive force of air leaves a?g, we can substitute g for a to rewrite the above equation as:

mg-Fr?mg

Now we can solve for Fr with simple algebra:

-Fr?mg-mg

Fr?0

This means that for every moment of the fall in time over the course of that 2.25 seconds mentioned above, we have a 32.0 m (105 ft) section of the building providing a resistive force indistinguishable from that of thin air. So again, while it seems many here willingly believe impact damage and office fires caused WTC7 to fall as it did, I have to doubt such a claim, as it quite simply defies consistently demonstatable laws of physics.

Looks like first-week high-school physics to me, and it is absurd. As is extremely well known, and as Dr Pizza reiterated earlier in this thread, the "-Fr" term Kyle is using to represent the "resistive force" of pillars and such is NEGLIGIBLE in a dynamic-load situation. With a huge, moving mass, the pillars would be so many matchsticks, and the difference between free-fall and (free-fall - .000000001) would be indistinguishable.

Edit: Let me make this really simple: The "mg" term being used in the equations above is enormous - DWARFING Fr in a dynamic load situation - and overwhelms "Fr" almost instantly. Fr then goes to 0 (virtually instantly) as the pillars collapse (Dr Pizza's aluminum can and karate-chopped brick analogies), and the dynamic load is then completely unopposed. Voila! Instantaneous free fall.

Haha, rofl. Everyone knew this joker didn't know the math and this post just proves it. This has to be some of the worst, most elementary physics to "disprove" expert engineers I've ever seen. This is clearly a guy who has no concept of advanced physics which is why he still can't explain mathematically why WTC7 can't fall at/near free fall.

What a great thread over at the randi forums, almost feel sorry this joker has spent so much time posting about something he has no understanding of.

 

[Nemesis 1]

For shits and giggles Fold a five dollar bill correctly and tell me what ya see . Than do exact same with a 20 . I did this with my wife and kids and they freaked . My student who is pushing 3 laugh his ass off that freaked them out beyond belief . They just don't get it . Buy the way No talk of GOD or religion allowed around this Child. I have to be sure what he knows is from within.

Oh so you guys know this . GOD has never spoken to me . LOL . I will tell ya this . Ya ever here of remote viewing or astro travel . I have done it . The First three times was when i was 3 or 4 not sure. First 2 times i was in house . I would discribe what happened as Astro travel rather than remote viewing . It was very short time . indoors . The 3rd time was outdoors and it changed my life forever. I was afraid to get lost . But mt reasoning for my age was rather good . I figured out very fast how to find my way home . Nothing intersting happened on my adventure that I can discuss except the tree I found .

On the way back home it got interesting . I looked up at Sun and went to the light . Thats when it happened . I was told I couldn't come in by a womens voice who claimed to be lilith

She told me I had to go back and couldn't not enter at this time . She told me many things . Plus she told me the best kept secret of all time . She told me the Words she used to escape Adam . She said another would come with same Knowledge and how I would know him . She said to be careful because they will try to steer me the wrong direction which infact did happen . I can only otter those words aloud 1 time in my life . But the other can use more. My death is when I use it . Same as the other he uses it than also . How else will the seals be be broken by the Angle.

She told me how to know the time appointed .

Thats the last I ever heard . It was the last time I astro traveled .Until june of this year . Its a day my enemies will not forget none were harmed . God just took from them what they took from me . Just a little show he gave me . Vengance is the Lords not mine.

Now tell me I not a nut case . Harmless but still a nut case. What happened in june did happen . I thought it would be July . But Rome screwed with calender. Didn't figure that . ALL in all it was a wierd experiance . But the power its overwhelming . I am a scarred ?no
Am I happy NO Will I do what I must yes. After this post I fully exspect the boys with white suites to show up at door .

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: Number1

Originally posted by: kylebisme
When I am wrong, I enjoy admitting it, as doing so allows me to better understand reality. Here is a song which might help you come understand the benefit of this yourself.

You enjoy admitting you're wrong?

Wow is that why you're making so many incredible claims in this thread? So you can admit you are wrong an unheard of number of time?

Are you going for a Guinness world record?

Ya know number1 I liked his reply here very very much . Being wrong and admitting freely and openly is wonderful . He isn't taking baby steps here those are man sized steps . Good for him . Number 1 soon you shall know the trueth . Than what . Tell me. What happens if He is correct . Tell ME what happens to your small little sheltered world .