What brought down WTC7

[LunarRay]

I did an experiment this morning.

I took 8 pavers ( all I could get my wife to let me mess with) and on what I determined to be level ground set them up like a building might be... 8 stories high plus the foundation.
I used as my structural beams Ice cream sticks assembled like inverted V's. I used one set on each corner and two in the center. It looked good, actually. I then took a golf club and swung it so the shaft took away the support between the 7th and 8th paver. The 8th fell but only to the 7th paver... It didn't cause the pancake effect!... OK, I figured I had too much support so I removed a center support... same thing.. I then took out all the center supports and had only the corner support. This time #8 paver fell and caused #7 to fall but in so doing it moved to the side by a few inches... hmmm. I tried all sorts of things to get my pavers to fall all the way down but couldn't. I couldn't remove too many support cuz the pavers didn't have lateral support and would fall to the side.

Anyone have a suggestion on how I can replicate a pancake event using my seven pavers? I only have 7 cuz #8 cracked in my last attempt. I've glued it with concrete epoxy from the office so maybe I can use it when it dries...

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Love makes the world go around!! We love you Moonie!!!

See! Now that was rather easy, right?

It was easy because your wise friend, Moonbeam, knows that the way to make an asshole feel loved it to kick him in the nuts. I explained all this in my Obama is too nice thread.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
I did an experiment this morning.

I took 8 pavers ( all I could get my wife to let me mess with) and on what I determined to be level ground set them up like a building might be... 8 stories high plus the foundation.
I used as my structural beams Ice cream sticks assembled like inverted V's. I used one set on each corner and two in the center. It looked good, actually. I then took a golf club and swung it so the shaft took away the support between the 7th and 8th paver. The 8th fell but only to the 7th paver... It didn't cause the pancake effect!... OK, I figured I had too much support so I removed a center support... same thing.. I then took out all the center supports and had only the corner support. This time #8 paver fell and caused #7 to fall but in so doing it moved to the side by a few inches... hmmm. I tried all sorts of things to get my pavers to fall all the way down but couldn't. I couldn't remove too many support cuz the pavers didn't have lateral support and would fall to the side.

Anyone have a suggestion on how I can replicate a pancake event using my seven pavers? I only have 7 cuz #8 cracked in my last attempt. I've glued it with concrete epoxy from the office so maybe I can use it when it dries...

If you are going to do a scale model, say one 1/32 the actual size I think you will have to spin it in a centrifuge to 32G. That's going to make it tough for you to stand and swing your club, which you also should have filled with aviation gasoline. Then when the floor falls it will take out the rest toot sweet. The inertial force generated by a paver falling one paver in height is infinitesimal compared to a 500,000 tone structure falling one story. You have to remember that the force of inertia goes up with the square of velocity and velocity doubles every 32 feet. I think. So after 32 feet of fall the building now weighs the equivalent of 2,000,000 tons minus the mass of the bottom 16 feet which would have been stopped already by hitting the earth. This is what makes asteroids such bad poo poo. A little one quickly becomes nuclear in magnitude.

 

[irishScott]

The very existence of truthers proves their theories completely wrong. By their logic, the government should have made them disappear a long time ago. Given that no one believes truthers anyway, plausible deniability would be pointless. Seriously, do you really think that if you stumbled upon something classified top secret or above that the government would just let you blab about it to the world? You've obviously never been to a security briefing for people who have said clearances. (I didn't but it was recommended we go for my internship).

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Love makes the world go around!! We love you Moonie!!!

See! Now that was rather easy, right?

It was easy because your wise friend, Moonbeam, knows that the way to make an asshole feel loved it to kick him in the nuts. I explained all this in my Obama is too nice thread.

I'll be darned!... Yes, I do recall that now.
Ya know Moonbeam is going to run for the State House, right? So wouldn't it be nifty to have more than one in that bright hall of mirrors?

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: munky
Your first mistake is assuming that the govt..

There you go, indicting the entire government as usual. A faction, a small faction.

Oh yah more conspirators to add to the list:
John Shiban, Frank Spotnitz, Vince Gilligan and Chris Carter

Broadcast on? FOX, a subsidiary of Newsgroup! Muwahahahaha, Rupert Murdock was in it too!

As you are apparently incapable of responding to me without strawmanning, I ask that you please just not respond at all.

I've already asked you to go fuck yourself, but you're still here!

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: LunarRay
I did an experiment this morning.

I took 8 pavers ( all I could get my wife to let me mess with) and on what I determined to be level ground set them up like a building might be... 8 stories high plus the foundation.
I used as my structural beams Ice cream sticks assembled like inverted V's. I used one set on each corner and two in the center. It looked good, actually. I then took a golf club and swung it so the shaft took away the support between the 7th and 8th paver. The 8th fell but only to the 7th paver... It didn't cause the pancake effect!... OK, I figured I had too much support so I removed a center support... same thing.. I then took out all the center supports and had only the corner support. This time #8 paver fell and caused #7 to fall but in so doing it moved to the side by a few inches... hmmm. I tried all sorts of things to get my pavers to fall all the way down but couldn't. I couldn't remove too many support cuz the pavers didn't have lateral support and would fall to the side.

Anyone have a suggestion on how I can replicate a pancake event using my seven pavers? I only have 7 cuz #8 cracked in my last attempt. I've glued it with concrete epoxy from the office so maybe I can use it when it dries...

If you are going to do a scale model, say one 1/32 the actual size I think you will have to spin it in a centrifuge to 32G. That's going to make it tough for you to stand and swing your club, which you also should have filled with aviation gasoline. Then when the floor falls it will take out the rest toot sweet. The inertial force generated by a paver falling one paver in height is infinitesimal compared to a 500,000 tone structure falling one story. You have to remember that the force of inertia goes up with the square of velocity and velocity doubles every 32 feet. I think. So after 32 feet of fall the building now weighs the equivalent of 2,000,000 tons minus the mass of the bottom 16 feet which would have been stopped already by hitting the earth. This is what makes asteroids such bad poo poo. A little one quickly becomes nuclear in magnitude.

Well... the top floors don't weigh that and the gas is what made the support fail...my club is all the factors that caused the failure and I figured that my floors had much more mass in relation to support than the buildings. And there is that equal and opposite bit too... the force coming down met a force pushing up, no?
I know I'm not to scale and I can't get the UCSD engineering folks to make one for me.. hehehehe they building them seismic stuff atm.
I think I'll glue my Icecream sticks together to make the fall distance longer.. see if that works.

Yes, F=MV... I remember that bit

EDIT: OOPs... I mean F=MA Sorry Newton

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: irishScott
The very existence of truthers proves their theories completely wrong. By their logic, the government should have made them disappear a long time ago. Given that no one believes truthers anyway, plausible deniability would be pointless. Seriously, do you really think that if you stumbled upon something classified top secret or above that the government would just let you blab about it to the world? You've obviously never been to a security briefing for people who have said clearances. (I didn't but it was recommended we go for my internship).

eheheheh, I think IF all aspects were considered we'd find the buildings fell from a combination of things that resulted in the observations. I like the Duck theory. But this duck is missing parts and might be a Turkey.

I can't buy that Government terminated citizens to further some agenda... but neither can I buy that observations don't need being fully considered and included to provide a result that no one can argue with.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: irishScott
The very existence of truthers proves their theories completely wrong. By their logic, the government should have made them disappear a long time ago. Given that no one believes truthers anyway, plausible deniability would be pointless. Seriously, do you really think that if you stumbled upon something classified top secret or above that the government would just let you blab about it to the world? You've obviously never been to a security briefing for people who have said clearances. (I didn't but it was recommended we go for my internship).

I think I would disagree. I watch a lying fuck of a Bush stand before the American people and tell them total garbage which they ate with relish while Harvey told you exactly what was really going on. The deluded didn't need him taken out to successfully and completely shine him on and the maker of fabulous macros. The best place to hide a lie is right out in the open.

Those of us who wish to pursue sanity have to thread our way. Is there a lie somewhere being hidden by secrecy or put right out in the open. Too paranoid and you constantly suspect the hidden and (or) the obvious truth, that something is either hidden or all that we see is a lie. Some minds don't seem to be able to life in uncertainty. They need to understand everything even if it's their mind supplying delusional proof.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: irishScott
The very existence of truthers proves their theories completely wrong. By their logic, the government should have made them disappear a long time ago. Given that no one believes truthers anyway, plausible deniability would be pointless. Seriously, do you really think that if you stumbled upon something classified top secret or above that the government would just let you blab about it to the world? You've obviously never been to a security briefing for people who have said clearances. (I didn't but it was recommended we go for my internship).

eheheheh, I think IF all aspects were considered we'd find the buildings fell from a combination of things that resulted in the observations. I like the Duck theory. But this duck is missing parts and might be a Turkey.

I can't buy that Government terminated citizens to further some agenda... but neither can I buy that observations don't need being fully considered and included to provide a result that no one can argue with.

There is nothing that no one will argue with and I can prove it. I just have to say something in a thread TLC visits when as is typical he doesn't have his thinking capon.

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: kylebisme
...

Originally posted by: Cogman
HA HA HA. That was never my advice, and you've completely ignored my earlier post.

I did confuse you an ElFenix, as you both make much the same absurd arguments to ignore the facts I presented in my OP. Also, I don't ignore any of the posts here, I read them, I just don't bother to respond to the most nonsensical ones.
...

lol, that directly translates into "I have no way to argue against your post, therefore I'm going to ignore it and act like it never happened."

I think I'm done here. Considering all your posts have been "ZOMG nobody can refute my facts!!!!1!" then you proceed to present no facts, and only references to obviously bias websites about "Teh Truth".

You say that peoples posts are ridiculous and ludicrous, but you are unable to refute them in any way other then just saying how dumb they are.

You keep on referring to "The laws of physics". Your argument is simply saying that something is impossible (Even when shown that it is completely possible) and denying any argument to the contrary. You haven't proved anything other then the fact that you are blind to everything and unwilling to accept any sort of proof that doesn't jive with your reality.

Yes, I'm saying you are close minded, Which is Ironic considering you started out trying to say that you are open to possibilities, you aren't You are open to nothing. This isn't a thread about finding truth, this is a thread for you to call people idiots and rant about how nobody in the world is as smart as you.

Good luck with life. At very least I hope you will take at least 1/2 a second to consider that "Humm, maybe there is a reason everyone is telling me I'm crazy"

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: kylebisme
...

Originally posted by: Cogman
HA HA HA. That was never my advice, and you've completely ignored my earlier post.

I did confuse you an ElFenix, as you both make much the same absurd arguments to ignore the facts I presented in my OP. Also, I don't ignore any of the posts here, I read them, I just don't bother to respond to the most nonsensical ones.
...

lol, that directly translates into "I have no way to argue against your post, therefore I'm going to ignore it and act like it never happened."

I think I'm done here. Considering all your posts have been "ZOMG nobody can refute my facts!!!!1!" then you proceed to present no facts, and only references to obviously bias websites about "Teh Truth".

You say that peoples posts are ridiculous and ludicrous, but you are unable to refute them in any way other then just saying how dumb they are.

You keep on referring to "The laws of physics". Your argument is simply saying that something is impossible (Even when shown that it is completely possible) and denying any argument to the contrary. You haven't proved anything other then the fact that you are blind to everything and unwilling to accept any sort of proof that doesn't jive with your reality.

Yes, I'm saying you are close minded, Which is Ironic considering you started out trying to say that you are open to possibilities, you aren't You are open to nothing. This isn't a thread about finding truth, this is a thread for you to call people idiots and rant about how nobody in the world is as smart as you.


Good luck with life. At very least I hope you will take at least 1/2 a second to consider that "Humm, maybe there is a reason everyone is telling me I'm crazy"

Finally somebody else who has seen and heard and experienced the truth!!!! -- I thought I was the only one who knew this about Kylebisme...rofl..hahahaa

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Yes, F=MV... I remember that bit

F=ma that is, acceleration rather than velocity, acceleration being the change in velocity over time. Of course you are still correct in thinking that longer sticks would get you closer to your desired results. But again, you aren't going to get anywhere close to confirming the official story by simulating the conditions it claims, as that is physically impossible.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I think I would disagree. I watch a lying fuck of a Bush stand before the American people and tell them total garbage which they ate with relish while Harvey told you exactly what was really going on. The deluded didn't need him taken out to successfully and completely shine him on and the maker of fabulous macros.

Exactly. Killing off everyone who spoke out against the bullshit claims of WMD in Iraq would have only lead more people to question the official story on that, and there was no need to as a majority was already mislead into shouting down anyone who did speak up against the Cheney administration's push for war in Iraq, the the media largely playing chorus for it to keep that majority singing along. The bullshit claims of 9/11 are kept popularly accepted by the same means, with killing people to maintain the lies generally being something that would do the cover story more harm than good.

So, if fear for your lives is what is keeping some of you from speaking up here or even considering looking at my reasons for doing so, I hope you might realise there is no rational basis for such paranoia.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Cogman
You keep on referring to "The laws of physics".

Yep, in reference to the facts I presented in my OP, which you claim contained no facts. Am I to take that claim to mean you do not believe the laws of physics are facts?

Originally posted by: Cogman
Your argument is simply saying that something is impossible (Even when shown that it is completely possible)...

Rather, your imagine the physically impossible to have been shown possible, when no one has or can do anything of the sort. That said, if you quote specifically what you were referring to as being shown here, I'd be happy to address it.

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: munky

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: Number1
Seriously, there are NO mainstream media who are even willing to entertain the concepts those twuthers like to propagate.

Of course they won't they are too busy hiding the facts to entertain falsers like you. For example sake, Steven Jones discussing the media blackout on footage of WTC7. Of course they couldn't show that and expect anyone with a reasonable grasp of physics and a clear head to continue considering the official story credible, as I explained in my OP.

Just curious - outside of twoothers, who *ISN'T* involved in the conspiracy? Here's my list of who *IS* in the conspiracy:

- Mainstream media (including international media such as BBC)
- Israel and all jews
- All demolition contractors
- 99.9% of engineers
- Insurance companies
- The airline industry, including all pilots, flight attendants, baggage handlers, etc.
- Airport security
- Chemical companies (Thermite/demolition charge supply companies)
- All the "victims" that were spirited to the island on "Lost"
- All the victims families (except for a few nutbars)
- Every function of the US government, including and state and local, spanning multiple administrations (including the current one)
- The entire US military, and many foreign militaries
- Every other government in the world that has a decent intelligence function

Who'd I miss?

Lol, and you think all the passengers aboard the Lusitania were in on it? You think all the sailors at Pearl Harbor were in on it? No, because they didn't need to know. Your first mistake is assuming that the govt isn't willing to kill its own people to further their agenda.

LOL you are a funny but other then your hilarious reply you have not addressed any of his points..

Sooo funny. LOL

In your world, people are either in on the conspiracy, bumbling idiotic "falsers"or smart members of the truth movement.

You're a funny guy. LOL

 

[kylebisme]

I'd bet munky would akcnolage that the truth movment has it's share of bumbling idiots too, the people who think the planes hitting the towers was all TV fakery being an obvious example.

 

[Number1]

The Clinton White House was not able to hide a sexual act between 2 adults and those twuthers want us to think that the government, administrations after administrations, would be able to hide such a monstrous conspiracy.

LOL


That President Obama, a Nobel prize winner would be in on the conspiracy is
Laughable really.

It's so "out there" it is beyond stupid.

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: Cogman
You keep on referring to "The laws of physics".

Yep, in reference to the facts I presented in my OP, which you claim contained no facts. Am I to take that claim to mean you do not believe the laws of physics are facts?

Originally posted by: Cogman
Your argument is simply saying that something is impossible (Even when shown that it is completely possible)...

Rather, your imagine the physically impossible to have been shown possible, when no one has or can do anything of the sort. That said, if you quote specifically what you were referring to as being shown here, I'd be happy to address it.

You've "Read all posts". I'll pull what you pulled and say, ready my posts, I've mentioned it there. There is no point for me quote yet again what I've said so you can ignore it yet again.

 

[IronWing]

WTC7 was just the ball return man. Pay back is a bitch.

 

[First]

Originally posted by: First
I'll say it yet again since it's not sinking in; the burden of proof is on kylebisme's shoulders to provide the math or continue to be laughed at.

Bump. Come on kiddo, don't puss out.

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: kylebisme
I'd bet munky would akcnolage that the truth movment has it's share of bumbling idiots too, the people who think the planes hitting the towers was all TV fakery being an obvious example.

Oh, I have no doubt that the planes hit the towers, and a bunch of innocent people died. That much is undeniable. But the official explanation which within hours of the attack pinned the blame on Osama Bin Laden, that the towers collapsed from the fire in the wrong order no less, that there were no fighter jets scrambled to intercept, that the key witness to the basement explosions just happened to commit suicide, that there was no video footage or debris found at the pentagon, and that the following anthrax scare was wrongfully blamed on Iraq by the media... those are just some key elements of the story that smell like a well-fermented steaming pile of BS.

 

[Number1]

OK twutters, try not to say anything too embarrassing in here now. Some of your posts are painful to read.

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: munky

Originally posted by: kylebisme
I'd bet munky would akcnolage that the truth movment has it's share of bumbling idiots too, the people who think the planes hitting the towers was all TV fakery being an obvious example.

Oh, I have no doubt that the planes hit the towers, and a bunch of innocent people died. That much is undeniable. But the official explanation which within hours of the attack pinned the blame on Osama Bin Laden, that the towers collapsed from the fire in the wrong order no less, that there were no fighter jets scrambled to intercept, that the key witness to the basement explosions just happened to commit suicide, that there was no video footage or debris found at the pentagon, and that the following anthrax scare was wrongfully blamed on Iraq by the media... those are just some key elements of the story that smell like a well-fermented steaming pile of BS.

This is just ridiculous. There are plenty of pictures of airplane debris at the Pentagon on that day. Just Google it.


The towers fell in the wrong order!!!! Are you trying to be funny again?

The only thing that smells like a steaming pile of bullshit here is your diatribe.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Yes, F=MV... I remember that bit

F=ma that is, acceleration rather than velocity, acceleration being the change in velocity over time. Of course you are still correct in thinking that longer sticks would get you closer to your desired results. But again, you aren't going to get anywhere close to confirming the official story by simulating the conditions it claims, as that is physically impossible.

I just came back for the back yard after like two hours but I can't get it to work so I give up...
I noticed you corrected my Force thingi... right.. I went and edited my post just a few ago. then started this... oops

the MV is to do with Momentum.. P=MV... I gets all confused with all this smart stuff.

 

[event8horizon]

ive been keeping up with a thread over at jref. i think this sums it up quit nicely.
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=155743

"the main problem i have is the rate of corrosion. this is the only study to try and replicate the conditions for the corrosion to occur.
http://www.me.wpi.edu/MTE/News/seminars3.html

A Metallurgical Examination and Simulation of the Oxidation and Sulfidation of the World Trade Center Structural Steel
Thursday, September 25, 2003, Washburn 323, 12:00 Noon

Presented by:
Erin Sullivan

Abstract
"To simulate the extreme wastage experienced by WTC building 7 structural steel during the fires experienced on September 11, 2001, A36 steel was reacted with powder FeS/FeO/SiO2/C in an open air furnace environment at 900C and 1100C. Initial investigations of the WTC structural steel revealed an apparent liquid "slag" attack and penetration down grain boundaries by liquid iron oxides and sulfides. The current laboratory simulation results show grain boundary penetration by a liquid slag at higher temperatures regardless of powder reactants applied to the steel samples. Eutectic structures within the Fe-S-O and Fe-Si-O systems were observed along with elemental segregation within the near surface microstructure. In all cases, grain boundary penetration appears to be strongly influenced by the addition of alloying elements and contaminants. "


remember Dr. Astaneh-As was in new york 8 days after the attack and saw "Parts of the flat top of the I, once five-eighths of an inch thick, had vaporized."

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10...lues-and-remedies.html

does anyone think erin sullivans experiment came close to corroding five eighths of an inch of steel?"


then later in the tread a poster actually quotes sisson (if anyone is that into the fema bpat report app c)

"However, preliminary experiments [5] at 1100 °C with mixtures of FeS and FeO placed on the steel surface and heated in air indicated that the reaction was not fast and dissolved little metal in 24 h. This observation indicates that the liquid slag attack probably took place during the prolonged exposure to the fire in the rubble."


5. R.R. Biederman, E. Sullivan, and R.D. Sisson, Jr., Worcester Polytechnic Institute, and G.F. Vander Voort, Buehler: ?Microstructural Analysis of the Steels from Buildings 7, 1 and 2 from the World Trade Center,? private communication

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=155743&page=2

so what we have is sisson saying that the attack was caused by iron, oxygen, and sulfur but when it came to experiment, it dissolved little in 24 hours. now five- eighths of an inch is 15.9 mm. so over 24 hrs, there should have been almost 2 mm "erroded".