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What are you buying with your $1200 check?

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I used to give safety talks to the manufacturing company at my previous work. These were people that were making $12 to $24 an hour. You know, the people that don't have extra money to invest and that $600 means a lot. One of the talks was about contributing to the 401K. At each meeting I had someone always asked what they could do with their money in their 410K. They did not want to invest in the stock market because they did not want to lose their money. So any talk of these people investing the money is just not going to happen.
 
I think what he's talking about, is the stock-market equivalent of taking all of your stimulus check, cashing it in at the casino, and "put it all on black".

Of course, hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20, and if the stock market was really "that easy"... no-one in this country would be "poor".

Meanwhile, in the real world, little Timmy needs an adequate laptop for distance-learning, and Mom needs rent and grocery money.

Edit: And what Ponyo, so enthusiastically ISN'T telling you, is that if your stock-market WAGER, using LEVERAGE goes WRONG, you could be on the hook for MILLIONS, and have to sell your house, your car, etc. (The casino bet is safer.)
Options can be risky. It's definitely advance level stuff but it's not difficult to understand. You don't need PhD to understand the concepts.

Option is zero sum game. For you to make money, someone else have to lose money. Option is written contract to buy or sell stock at certain price by certain date. 1 option contract is equivalent of 100 shares. What makes options so difficult is that not only you have to be right on the direction of the move, you also have to be right when that move is going to happen since options have expiration date. So you have to be right about the direction, time frame, and also magnitude of the move since you also have to select the strike price where you think the stock price will end up at certain date. If stock price doesn't hit the option strike price by the expiration date, your option goes to $0 and you lose the entire amount of your option bet. There are option plays where your losses are unlimited and also plays where the most you can lose is the amount you pay to buy the option. Option topic is way too complicated to explain here but you can google or Youtube options if you're curious or want to learn.

Option is leverage since each option gives you control of 100 shares of stock. Leverage cuts both ways and you can make or lose money quick. If you're stock market noob, you should definitely stay away from options.

I'll show you two of my option plays I'm currently holding. Both are TSLA call options. First one is TSLA Jan 15, 2021, $60 call option.
flgudHL.jpg

I own 5 of this $60 call option. What that means is I have the right to buy 500 shares of TSLA stock for $60 /share til the end of Jan 15, 2021 since each option is equal to 100 shares. Since TSLA stock price closed at $705.67, I have a profit of roughly $645 /share since I can buy TSLA for $60 /share and turn around and sell it for $705.67 each. I own 5 call options or 500 shares so my profit is $645 x 500 shares = $322,785. The above picture is showing profit as $319,099. And that's because the bid/ask spread is quite large on option that's super in the money like this call option. I purchased this call option back in Sept 2019 for $7.90 or $790 each option. Since I have 5 of this call options, I paid $39.50 or $3,950 total since each option is 100 shares of stock. The maximum amount I could've lost on this bet was $3,950 which was the total amount I spent buying the 5 call options. Meanwhile, my $3,950 bet is now worth ~$319,099 or return of 8,077%. That's almost 81x return. TSLA didn't go up 81 folds in the last 16 months. Which shows you the power of option and leverage. I also had bunch of $85 call options as well but I sold those during the corona panic back in March this year. If I still had it, I would have had 25,833% return on those $85 call options or 258 times my original bet. I had so many TSLA call options this year. I don't want to think about tens of millions of dollar potential profit I left on the table by selling those options early and not holding it.

I'm going to sell the TSLA $60 call option in the next 2 weeks to lock in the gains. Since I held it for more than a year, it's longterm capital gains and I will have to pay around $94,000 in taxes to the Fed and the state of GA. That will leave me with around $225,000 which will be enough to buy the new Tesla Roadster which is $200,000 plus another $16,000 in sales tax. So $216,000 for the Roadster. Paid for by $3,950 option bet I made.

This second option is another TSLA call option bet. It's a recent bet I made less than 1 month ago. I bought it to sell on TSLA S&P 500 inclusion day but I forgot I had these because I had bought so many TSLA options in so many different brokerage accounts and simply forgot about these. So I decided to hold these until 2021 to sell since it was already botched trade and to push out taxes til 2022.
l39Yhmyh.jpg


The above picture shows five of the TSLA Jan 15, 2021, $500 call options. I bought it when TSLA was trading around $615. I paid $125.43 or $12,543 for each option. Since I bought 5 call options, I paid $62,715 total. I chose to buy deep ITM call options because I wanted cheap leverage while paying the least amount of call premium. 5 call options allow me to control equivalent of 500 shares. The five TSLA $500 call options are now worth $103,200 total giving me profit of $42,780. That's with TSLA stock going up about $90 since I bought the TSLA $500 call options. If I had instead spent $61,500 buying 100 shares of TSLA stock instead of options, I would've made $9,000 vs $42,780 on the same $90 increase in TSLA stock price. Again, the power of leverage. But leverage works both ways so if TSLA stock price had dropped by $90, I would probably be looking at $42,780 loss right now vs $9,000 loss if I bought the 100 shares of the stock. As you can see, options greatly magnify your gain and loss. Leverage is very dangerous when used incorrectly or the market moves against you. You have to have different mentality if you mess with options. Basically, you have to have no fear and zero fear of losing it all. You have to be willing to lose everything. Only then do you have even a chance at winning. To make big money, you have to not care about money.
 
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Wow so it literally is gambling then, and huge amounts too. It sounds exactly like a casino game if someone HAS to lose. Yeah going to stay away from that. Even my penny stocks are less risky, since all I need to do is keep sitting on them if they don't go up and I only "loose" what I put in which is like 1-2 grand total, if I sell or the company goes tits up.

I mean good for you that it worked out but yeah that sounds more complicated or risky than I'd ever want to get into. If I even had that kind of money on hand I'd probably be using it to pay off the house or something before gambling it. I guess it's a big risk vs reward thing.
 
I get it that people are hurting, desperate, waiting hours and hours in food lines, etc..

But $600 is a fucking joke, a fucking insult, but a clear warning that our fucking politicians, especially republicans and the likes of the asshole Moscow Mitch have nothing but contempt for the people of this country. His own constituents should be boiling the tar to tar and feather him. There are over 3100 counties in the US, and 10 of the top 25 poorest counties are in the state this douche bag represents, and to give people $2k is fucking socialism... according to Moscow Mitch.

Woulda - coulda - might have blather is irrelevent. Of course I'm sure that a good bit of that $600 wasn't spent on food or essentials, but lottery tickets, drugs, and alcohol...
Low-income folks get EBT waivers. They shouldn't be spending the stimulus on food first. If people are not eligible for EBT and spend their stimulus on food, then their spending habits might have been too loose to begin with.
 
Wow so it literally is gambling then, and huge amounts too. It sounds exactly like a casino game if someone HAS to lose. Yeah going to stay away from that. Even my penny stocks are less risky, since all I need to do is keep sitting on them if they don't go up and I only "loose" what I put in which is like 1-2 grand total, if I sell or the company goes tits up.

I mean good for you that it worked out but yeah that sounds more complicated or risky than I'd ever want to get into. If I even had that kind of money on hand I'd probably be using it to pay off the house or something before gambling it. I guess it's a big risk vs reward thing.
ponyo is a Telsa fanatic.

Now, given that Telsa's stock is being hyped up to the moon, his strategy might have a little bit of gas left in the tank and riding the wave is fine for now, but there will come a time when the hard measures start to matter.
 
Wow so it literally is gambling then, and huge amounts too. It sounds exactly like a casino game if someone HAS to lose. Yeah going to stay away from that.
I basically figured as much. 😛

Hey, if it works for Ponyo, great! 😉

But I can't even quite still wrap my head around it.
 
Wow so it literally is gambling then, and huge amounts too. It sounds exactly like a casino game if someone HAS to lose. Yeah going to stay away from that. Even my penny stocks are less risky, since all I need to do is keep sitting on them if they don't go up and I only "loose" what I put in which is like 1-2 grand total, if I sell or the company goes tits up.

I mean good for you that it worked out but yeah that sounds more complicated or risky than I'd ever want to get into. If I even had that kind of money on hand I'd probably be using it to pay off the house or something before gambling it. I guess it's a big risk vs reward thing.
lol. Penny stocks are shit. Your risk/reward is far worse with penny stocks than options. Penny stocks are trading for pennies for a reason. Because most of penny companies are total crap and not worth putting even single penny in.

All the option plays I've shown so far I can only lose what I put in. Just like your penny stocks. Except option bets have real chance of paying off unlike 99% of penny stock bets. Penny stocks are for suckers.

Instead of gambling on penny stocks, put it in market index fund. Your gains will be slow and steady but at least with time, compounding effects will do work for you. Or use the money for hookers and blow. That's better use of money than losing it with penny stocks.

If you haven't figured out by now, stock market is a casino. Always have been. Always will be.
 
Wow so it literally is gambling then, and huge amounts too. It sounds exactly like a casino game if someone HAS to lose. Yeah going to stay away from that. Even my penny stocks are less risky, since all I need to do is keep sitting on them if they don't go up and I only "loose" what I put in which is like 1-2 grand total, if I sell or the company goes tits up.

I mean good for you that it worked out but yeah that sounds more complicated or risky than I'd ever want to get into. If I even had that kind of money on hand I'd probably be using it to pay off the house or something before gambling it. I guess it's a big risk vs reward thing.

To have big gains in the market it is indeed like gambling and a casino. All good and dandy. It's a playground for those with lots of income or assets, the few percent, or those that are just crazy risk takers/gambler types. Which is fine in most ways. The issue is that we measure our economy so much by the ways of the stock market, which is mostly owned by a small minority of the population. This is why you can have so many unemployed, people on food bank lines in record numbers compared to recent history, and yet the stock market is hitting record highs, so hey, the economy is great. It's a whole lot of bullshit. Hey you gotta wait in line for a 10lb bag of rice and some beans but the stock market is doing great so the country is in fantastic shape! It's all just smoke and mirrors. About half of Americans own zero stocks. And about 10% of Americans own almost 90% of all stocks. It's also why things like the massive Trump corporate tax cut is a failure for most people. Instead of investing that money in people and R&D and benefits and wages and in things right here in America, they just continue to outsource everything possible and invested most of the windfall in stock buybacks, to simply reward themselves, who all own tons of stock options, and all their rich buddies. It's just a vicious cycle of wealth rewarding wealth while ignoring at least half the country.
 
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To have big gains in the market it is indeed like gambling and a casino. All good and dandy. It's a playground for those with lots of income or assets, the few percent, or those that are just crazy risk takers/gambler types. Which is fine in most ways. The issue is that we measure our economy so much by the ways of the stock market, which is mostly owned by a small minority of the population. This is why you can have so many unemployed, people on food bank lines in record numbers compared to recent history, and yet the stock market is hitting record highs, so hey, the economy is great. It's a whole lot of bullshit. Hey you gotta wait in line for a 10lb bag of rice and some beans but the stock market is doing great so the country is in fantastic shape! It's all just smoke and mirrors. About half of Americans own zero stocks. And about 10% of Americans own almost 90% of all stocks. It's also why things like the massive Trump corporate tax cut is a failure for most people. Instead of investing that money in people and R&D and benefits and wages and in things right here in America, they just continue to outsource everything possible and invested most of the windfall in stock buybacks, to simply reward themselves, who all own tons of stock options, and all their rich buddies. It's just a vicious cycle of wealth rewarding wealth while ignoring at least half the country.
Instead of hating, how about doing something about it. No one is stopping you from investing in the stock market. Even when I was young, I realized that if you wanted to become rich in this country, you had to 1) be your own boss and own business 2) buy and own real estate 3) invest and own stocks. Realizing this I opened my first brokerage account as soon as I turned 18 and have been investing ever since.

You know the half of Americans who don’t own any stock? They’re also the same group who don’t pay any income taxes and get a refund every year. I don’t know about you but I pay my fair share of taxes every year.
 
Instead of hating, how about doing something about it. No one is stopping you from investing in the stock market. Even when I was young, I realized that if you wanted to become rich in this country, you had to 1) be your own boss and own business 2) buy and own real estate 3) invest and own stocks. Realizing this I opened my first brokerage account as soon as I turned 18 and have been investing ever since.

You know the half of Americans who don’t own any stock? They’re also the same group who don’t pay any income taxes and get a refund every year. I don’t know about you but I pay my fair share of taxes every year.

I'm not hating, in fact I don't even think you read my post. I clearly stated the stock market as a casino or wealth making vehicle for the most well off is fine, it just shouldn't be used as one of the primary measuring sticks of the economy for the whole country, and tax cuts to wealthy corporations shouldn't be going just to furthering the wealth disparity between the investor class and those in the working class via stock buybacks within that system, a lot more should be going to the actual working class, in the form of benefits and pay and investing in things here in our country. As I stated:

To have big gains in the market it is indeed like gambling and a casino. All good and dandy. It's a playground for those with lots of income or assets, the few percent, or those that are just crazy risk takers/gambler types. Which is fine in most ways. The issue is that we measure our economy so much by the ways of the stock market, which is mostly owned by a small minority of the population.

The point is the stock market is not affordable for everyone to play in and certainly not within their business acumen to actually go ahead and do so. Neither is the real estate market. But does that mean they shouldn't be doing ok regardless? I don't think so. I think the trash collector or food service person or photographer or graphic designer or whatever, that busts their fucking asses day in and day out and has no intellectual ability to trade stocks or buy and sell real estate, should have a financially safe life with solid healthcare and a certain quality of life, and THAT should be the measuring stick of a society's financial state more so than a casino for the few. Crazy I know.
 
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To have big gains in the market it is indeed like gambling and a casino. All good and dandy. It's a playground for those with lots of income or assets, the few percent, or those that are just crazy risk takers/gambler types. Which is fine in most ways. The issue is that we measure our economy so much by the ways of the stock market, which is mostly owned by a small minority of the population. This is why you can have so many unemployed, people on food bank lines in record numbers compared to recent history, and yet the stock market is hitting record highs, so hey, the economy is great. It's a whole lot of bullshit. Hey you gotta wait in line for a 10lb bag of rice and some beans but the stock market is doing great so the country is in fantastic shape! It's all just smoke and mirrors. About half of Americans own zero stocks. And about 10% of Americans own almost 90% of all stocks. It's also why things like the massive Trump corporate tax cut is a failure for most people. Instead of investing that money in people and R&D and benefits and wages and in things right here in America, they just continue to outsource everything possible and invested most of the windfall in stock buybacks, to simply reward themselves, who all own tons of stock options, and all their rich buddies. It's just a vicious cycle of wealth rewarding wealth while ignoring at least half the country.

Yeah never really been a big fan of the system as a whole. It seems everything companies do is just for the share holders, and to be a REAL share holder you need to already be rich. It's just a big rich club all around at the end of the day. People like me playing around with the stock market just don't have the kind of money to actually get anything significant out of it. It's just a big game at the end of the day though, it kind of boggles my mind it even works, stocks on their own don't really have any kind of value other than whatever it's set at. It's not like an object that you buy because that object can do something for you, it's just a virtual asset that you hope to be able to make money off of by selling it if the value goes up. Like how is that system even sustainable? It obviously is because it's making tons for rich people richer, but I just don't get what actually holds it together.

I don't blame anyone for wanting to get into the game if they can afford it though, but it just seems like such an odd thing that it even works at all and I do wish the economy was less focused on it and more focused on actual concrete things.
 
Of course, you could always "get into" cryptocurrency mining. It may not make you rich like Ponyo's stock trading does, but CC has the capability to 10X or 100X on some coins too.
 
I'm not hating, in fact I don't even think you read my post. I clearly stated the stock market as a casino or wealth making vehicle for the most well off is fine, it just shouldn't be used as one of the primary measuring sticks of the economy for the whole country, and tax cuts to wealthy corporations shouldn't be going just to furthering the wealth disparity between the investor class and those in the working class via stock buybacks within that system, a lot more should be going to the actual working class, in the form of benefits and pay and investing in things here in our country. As I stated:



The point is the stock market is not affordable for everyone to play in and certainly not within their business acumen to actually go ahead and do so. Neither is the real estate market. But does that mean they shouldn't be doing ok regardless? I don't think so. I think the trash collector or food service person or photographer or graphic designer or whatever, that busts their fucking asses day in and day out and has no intellectual ability to trade stocks or buy and sell real estate, should have a financially safe life with solid healthcare and a certain quality of life, and THAT should be the measuring stick of a society's financial state more so than a casino for the few. Crazy I know.
Not many think the stock market Is the primary measuring stick of the economy for the whole country. I sure don't. Only people like Trump thinks that and people like you. I know there are plenty of people suffering out there right now which is why I support these stimulus checks even though I won't see any dollar on my end. Any help is better than no help and more should be done.

You work with the system you have. We live in capitalistic society. Owners make bulk of the money while the workers make the rest. In this setup, if your a worker, your focus should be to become an owner so you can participate and get a piece of that bulk money. And great thing about the US is that it has the most robust and best public equity markets in the world. Our stock market is far the largest, strongest, and the envy of the world. And the beautiful thing is you won the fucking sperm lottery and was born here so you have super easy access to this great wealth building machine of ours. And I don't know why you guys have the idea the stock market is zero sums game. The US public stock market has been the greatest generator of wealth in this country and the world. And it's open to anyone to join in and invest. And millions do invest through their 401k, IRA, pensions, insurance, etc. Yes, even the "trash collector or food service person or photographer or graphic designer or whatever, that busts their fucking asses day in and day out." They have equal access to this public market and they invest. Everyone has access to index funds. Investing in index funds isn't rocket science and doesn't require any intellectual ability or financial knowledge. But you have to make the choice to invest. And many do invest through their work via 401k and retirement accounts. But no one is going to take your money and put it In index funds without your consent.

Public market is wonderful thing. It removes the income and society barriers and allows anyone with even $1 to invest and become owner in companies they otherwise wouldn't be able to own. And as an owner, you participate in all the upside and downside. Which would you rather have? Private market where the only the ultra rich and well connected can participate and become owners? Or public market where even average Joe like me can become owner? There are many private companies like SpaceX, Chick-fil-A, Stripe, etc. I want to invest in but can't because I'm not ultra wealthy and don't have the connections. To invest in SpaceX and Stripe, you have to be accredited investor, which requires minimum net liquid worth of $1 million or $200k annual income. I'm accredited investor yet I can't get access to SpaceX and Stripe shares. Not only you have to have money, you need extreme luck and connections to be able to buy direct private shares from some other rich person who wants to sell. Which makes SpaceX and Stripe shares extremely hard to come by. Private market is definition of the rich boys club. Public market is not. The rich control both markets because they have the most money.

Short term, stock market is a casino. Longterm, nothing beats return on equities and returns from the S&P pretty much outpaces everything else. Compounding is extremely powerful tool and everyone has access to index funds and the magic of compounding. This is how you build wealth. It takes time, discipline, and many years of hard work. It's not get rich quick scheme. It's the long game. Generally, time in the market > market timing. So quit bitching and make the commitment to invest. Or not and keep talking about the evils of the stock market and how unfair everything is. Yeah, life is unfair. But quit playing victim and make changes in your life to better yourself.
 
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I think what he's talking about, is the stock-market equivalent of taking all of your stimulus check, cashing it in at the casino, and "put it all on black".

Of course, hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20, and if the stock market was really "that easy"... no-one in this country would be "poor".
Yeah, but the stocks still need to go up enough to get a big return.

It has never been easier or cheaper to invest in the stock market - something that has an incredible track record of annual dependable positive returns. Gone are account minimums, there are now alternatives to high etf trade fees, high ER mutual fund fees and there is an incredible wealth of good, free information to get you started.

The biggest roadblock is that someone has to do something for decades for it to pay off and people want flashy and immediate gratification
 
Our 55" TV is ~8 years old so we'll probably spend ours on that - but not right away. I have a feeling TV deals will be sparse until around the Superbowl due to the stimulus
 
Yeah never really been a big fan of the system as a whole. It seems everything companies do is just for the share holders, and to be a REAL share holder you need to already be rich. It's just a big rich club all around at the end of the day. People like me playing around with the stock market just don't have the kind of money to actually get anything significant out of it. It's just a big game at the end of the day though, it kind of boggles my mind it even works, stocks on their own don't really have any kind of value other than whatever it's set at. It's not like an object that you buy because that object can do something for you, it's just a virtual asset that you hope to be able to make money off of by selling it if the value goes up. Like how is that system even sustainable? It obviously is because it's making tons for rich people richer, but I just don't get what actually holds it together.

I don't blame anyone for wanting to get into the game if they can afford it though, but it just seems like such an odd thing that it even works at all and I do wish the economy was less focused on it and more focused on actual concrete things.

It's your mindset that keeps you "poor" (I honestly don't think you're poor if you can buy all the life's necessities, and it sounds like you can do that).

You believe "it's only for the rich", therefor you do not try and will not become rich yourself. You spend your money on plenty of things that likely return no value, all you need to do is choose wiser. The stock market is a place to invest your money to return more money than you put in. If you do not have skill, you at least have time - and time is a huge advantage that outweighs even really poor skill.

Not to mention, you will not gain any skill by not trying to learn. Even small attempts at learning over a large period of time will eventually lead to average to above average skill - if not more.

There is no reason you cannot turn a small amount of money into a much larger one, many people do it every year. Some are for sure by luck, but I'd wager most are by intention.

People fear things they do not understand, and that's the sentiment I'm reading here, outside of Ponyo's. Ponyo has wealth because he looked at the stock market as opportunity, not a "game for someone else to play that has money".

That said, there are plenty of other ways to turn smaller sums of money into larger ones - but you wont find a single one by not looking, or assuming those "games are for someone else". If you have no desire to obtain wealth, then fine - that's actually a valid reason not to. But if you'd prefer to be the rich guy, time to start trying and not shrugging it off.
 
Sad thing is, at least from the people i know, the ones that "need" that $600 are too far in the hole to look to invest it right now. They're just looking to pay off the bills they already have & $600 doesn't go very far in that respect.

I'm certainly no financial expert, but there's a big difference in buying stocks & having a 401K or IRA, Usually the latter is made up of funds of stocks, not individual stocks(as far as i know) With a funds there's less involvement needed. Yearly review usually. Stocks could be quite different.
 
yes 100$k has historically been called the ATOT minimum wage (i think alky started that)

but once madoka got banned, the average income here dropped by like 100$k
lol. The good old days of alky and madoka. I actually found madoka recently on Reddit while randomly browsing. Madoka is the same baller still buying crazy number of Legos, Gundam toys, guns, spare MacBooks he won't use, spare houses to use as storage and crash at, etc. lol. He still has his Nissan GTR, Porsche Cayman, McLaren 570s, etc. Apparently, madoka moved to or is longterm staying in Seoul, South Korea, at the moment. Lucky bastard. I want to go there too but I don't want to deal with the 2 weeks mandatory government quarantine right now.

I know you enjoy cyberstalking @brianmanahan , so here's link to post madoka made recently about moving to and living in Korea.


But please leave the guy alone and don't harass him though. I haven't contacted him even though I found him. If he's in Korea when I go later this year, I'm thinking of contacting him to see if he wants to meet up and get a drink. 😀
 
I bought a dishwasher. Should be here next week. Made in America so at least some of the money will stay in our economy versus people buying made in China stuff.
 
Sad thing is, at least from the people i know, the ones that "need" that $600 are too far in the hole to look to invest it right now. They're just looking to pay off the bills they already have & $600 doesn't go very far in that respect.

I'm certainly no financial expert, but there's a big difference in buying stocks & having a 401K or IRA, Usually the latter is made up of funds of stocks, not individual stocks(as far as i know) With a funds there's less involvement needed. Yearly review usually. Stocks could be quite different.
You can buy individual stocks with your IRA account but with some restrictions like no margin trading, etc.
 
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