What are the wrong reasons for majoring in engineering?

[her209]

So if a person who likes to build and work with computers chooses to major in Computer Science/Engineering, and a person who likes to tinker and work on cars chooses to major in Mechanical Engineering, then what makes someone choose Civil Engineering, specifically one that makes sanitation systems?

 

[Tiamat]

Originally posted by: Oiprocs
I've read a lot of posts by members in the forum that wonder why people pay a good amount of money to go to college, only to major in something that will not land them a well paying job.

Wouldn't that result in students choosing engineering as a major, if only so that they don't have to worry about the hardship of paying back loans? What are some other bad reasons for choosing engineering?

Engineers tend to have an almost-guaranteed "decent" starting salary vs. other 4-year degrees like Psych, Communications, Political Science, etc. That doesn't mean that the other majors can't make good money, its just that the average joe that graduates with the other degrees most likely won't be making a "comfortable" salary straight out of college (as most engineers would be making).

If you care about the advancement of science and improving technology to better mankind, engineering is a good field to go into. There aren't too many bad reasons for choosing engineering if you have prerequisite interests. Going in just for the money, or just because engineering sounds cool are terrible reasons (which are some reasons that I have heard)

People not cut out for engineering typically leave after 3 semesters, so that time is not wasted. i have not met anyone that lasted more than 1.5 years in an engineering program and switched to a major that was non-science related.

 

[RapidSnail]

Originally posted by: her209
So if a person who likes to build and work with computers chooses to major in Computer Science/Engineering, and a person who likes to tinker and work on cars chooses to major in Mechanical Engineering, then what makes someone choose Civil Engineering, specifically one that makes sanitation systems?

Text

Someone has to do it.

 

[Imdmn04]

Originally posted by: JohnCU
i did it for the money. i'm pretty happy.

I did too, and I am happy too.

The key is to find something that is in demand and that you enjoy (or at least can tolerate without being misearable).

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Definitely don't go into engineering if you hate math. Math is our way of describing how the Universe works, and if you want a machine or circuit to work, you're going to need to use math. Lots and lots and lots of math work. A fair portion of my classes involve learning equations, and how to apply them. Fortunately, we get to use an equation sheet on the tests - my professors are more concerned with us learning the concepts, rather than spending time memorizing equations. After enough use, memorization will simply happen anyway.

I have to disagree. You have to go through a lot of math as a student, but if you can slug your way through it, you can find employment where math is not extensive.

 

[chusteczka]

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: chusteczka
There are other majors where a skill can be learned that will be easier to continue through a master's degree with the result of a higher salary for someone that may otherwise get burned out after receiving an engineering B.S..

Statistics, accounting, economics, finance. Each of these fields is easier to complete a master's degree in than it is to complete a bachelor's degree in engineering. The resulting pay is more for the master's degree than for an engineering bachelor's degree.

Wrong. My fiancee is in the accounting profession, and they make considerably less than engineers do.

I was attempting to compare salaries and career possibilities between a sharp student that may get burned out after achieving modest grades for an engineering B.S. vs. the same sharp student excelling through a master's degree in another discipline.

An engineering student concerned with "the wrong reasons for majoring in engineering" may be achieving average grades in the engineering program while that same student would likely excel in a less difficult program such as those I mentioned.

A mediocre engineering student can expect to see the following:

• starting salary = $45k
• after first year = $50k
• after second year = $55k
• after third year = $60.

An accounting major with a Master's degree in tax, studying for the CPA, and employed with one of the Big 4 accounting firms can expect the following:

• starting salary = $54
• after first year = $60
• after second year (with CPA) = $75.

A statistics major with a master's degree can expect to achieve $75k after three years work experience.

My example comparison was not intended to compare the average accounting student against the below average engineering student. From my experience, below average engineering students that drop engineering for another program typically excel in that other program. Furthermore, from my experience, those engineering students that did drop engineering for another skilled program did better after a few years out of school than the average engineer with a B.S. and no certifications.

For this comparison, my statement is very true.

 

[oiprocs]

Originally posted by: chusteczka

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: chusteczka
There are other majors where a skill can be learned that will be easier to continue through a master's degree with the result of a higher salary for someone that may otherwise get burned out after receiving an engineering B.S..

Statistics, accounting, economics, finance. Each of these fields is easier to complete a master's degree in than it is to complete a bachelor's degree in engineering. The resulting pay is more for the master's degree than for an engineering bachelor's degree.

Wrong. My fiancee is in the accounting profession, and they make considerably less than engineers do.

I was attempting to compare salaries and career possibilities between a sharp student that may get burned out after achieving modest grades for an engineering B.S. vs. the same sharp student excelling through a master's degree in another discipline.

An engineering student concerned with "the wrong reasons for majoring in engineering" may be achieving average grades in the engineering program while that same student would likely excel in a less difficult program such as those I mentioned.

A mediocre engineering student can expect to see the following:

• starting salary = $45k
• after first year = $50k
• after second year = $55k
• after third year = $60.

An accounting major with a Master's degree in tax, studying for the CPA, and employed with one of the Big 4 accounting firms can expect the following:

• starting salary = $54
• after first year = $60
• after second year (with CPA) = $75.

A statistics major with a master's degree can expect to achieve $75k after three years work experience.

My example comparison was not intended to compare the average accounting student against the below average engineering student. From my experience, below average engineering students that drop engineering for another program typically excel in that other program. Furthermore, from my experience, those engineering students that did drop engineering for another skilled program did better after a few years out of school than the average engineer with a B.S. and no certifications.

For this comparison, my statement is very true.

Is this really true? Do you know what the figures would be if the engineering student were not mediocre, but above average?

 

[magomago]

You make way too many of these threads.

 

[timosyy]

Don't choose engineering because you like to build computers.

Don't choose engineering because your parents are pushing you toward it.

Don't choose engineering because you're "good" with computers.

I went into computer engineering for the above reasons and got my butt kicked, hardcore. Like my GPA was < 2.0, put on probation, etc. Switched into business, 4 semesters into it my business GPA is a 4.0 and my cumulative is back to a 3.5.

 

[chusteczka]

Originally posted by: Oiprocs

Originally posted by: chusteczka

Originally posted by: Jumpem

Originally posted by: chusteczka
There are other majors where a skill can be learned that will be easier to continue through a master's degree with the result of a higher salary for someone that may otherwise get burned out after receiving an engineering B.S..

Statistics, accounting, economics, finance. Each of these fields is easier to complete a master's degree in than it is to complete a bachelor's degree in engineering. The resulting pay is more for the master's degree than for an engineering bachelor's degree.

Wrong. My fiancee is in the accounting profession, and they make considerably less than engineers do.

I was attempting to compare salaries and career possibilities between a sharp student that may get burned out after achieving modest grades for an engineering B.S. vs. the same sharp student excelling through a master's degree in another discipline.

An engineering student concerned with "the wrong reasons for majoring in engineering" may be achieving average grades in the engineering program while that same student would likely excel in a less difficult program such as those I mentioned.

A mediocre engineering student can expect to see the following:

• starting salary = $45k
• after first year = $50k
• after second year = $55k
• after third year = $60.

An accounting major with a Master's degree in tax, studying for the CPA, and employed with one of the Big 4 accounting firms can expect the following:

• starting salary = $54
• after first year = $60
• after second year (with CPA) = $75.

A statistics major with a master's degree can expect to achieve $75k after three years work experience.

My example comparison was not intended to compare the average accounting student against the below average engineering student. From my experience, below average engineering students that drop engineering for another program typically excel in that other program. Furthermore, from my experience, those engineering students that did drop engineering for another skilled program did better after a few years out of school than the average engineer with a B.S. and no certifications.

For this comparison, my statement is very true.

Is this really true? Do you know what the figures would be if the engineering student were not mediocre, but above average?

Yes, this is true from what I have seen in the Chicago area for students from the University of Illinois-Urbana/Champaign.

For an above average engineering student with a B.S. that is below top-achieving, stellar performance, I expect the pay rates stated above to be advanced by one year.

Basically, an engineering student from a good university that barely passes the program is placed with average students from lesser schools. Such a student must decide between continuing or dropping. It can sometimes be better for such a student to excel at a lesser school or excel in a different program. However, if the interest is really there, that student may still be able to excel after much hard work in the business world.

Basically, engineering is not the only field to receive attractive pay. Those fields I have stated are the ones I am aware of that pay high performers very well and often better than engineers receive.

There is a saying that it is hard to soar like an eagle when you are working with turkeys but that eagle stands out more when working with those turkeys rather than soaring like an average eagle in a group of high flying eagles. This is also true for average engineering students who go on to get their master's degree in a field other than engineering.

 

[chusteczka]

Originally posted by: timosyy
Don't choose engineering because you like to build computers.

Don't choose engineering because your parents are pushing you toward it.

Don't choose engineering because you're "good" with computers.

I went into computer engineering for the above reasons and got my butt kicked, hardcore. Like my GPA was < 2.0, put on probation, etc. Switched into business, 4 semesters into it my business GPA is a 4.0 and my cumulative is back to a 3.5.

This is exactly the situation that I am discussing. Good for you.

I am an example of the engineering student that was put on probation and barely graduated. However, I really wanted the engineering degree and am good at what I do so I decided to stick with it. I have recently moved myself up from an average position with a nice 20% raise that I negotiated hard for. Although, I am the only "engineer" working with a group of standard "IT" people so I hope that I stand out a bit in this group. Soon, I will pursue a master's degree in another area and I am considering CS, Finance, Accounting, or Statistics.

 

[oiprocs]

Originally posted by: chusteczka

Originally posted by: timosyy
Don't choose engineering because you like to build computers.

Don't choose engineering because your parents are pushing you toward it.

Don't choose engineering because you're "good" with computers.

I went into computer engineering for the above reasons and got my butt kicked, hardcore. Like my GPA was < 2.0, put on probation, etc. Switched into business, 4 semesters into it my business GPA is a 4.0 and my cumulative is back to a 3.5.

This is exactly the situation that I am discussing. Good for you.

I am an example of the engineering student that was put on probation and barely graduated. However, I really wanted the engineering degree and am good at what I do so I decided to stick with it. I have recently moved myself up from an average position with a nice 20% raise that I negotiated hard for. Although, I am the only "engineer" working with a group of standard "IT" people so I hope that I stand out a bit in this group. Soon, I will pursue a master's degree in another area and I am considering CS, Finance, Accounting, or Statistics.

What was your first job? How much did you make? Did they question you regarding your GPA? What is it that you do now? Do you like it?

 

[chusteczka]

Originally posted by: Oiprocs
What was your first job? How much did you make? Did they question you regarding your GPA? What is it that you do now? Do you like it?

First job was Quality Assurance and Technical Documentation for a pharmaceutical company with strict QA to meet the FDA requirements. This lasted six months and strongly disliked it. I quit and was unemployed for the next six months.

I interviewed with numerous engineering firms and nothing worked with them. I finally found success by looking at the "lesser" IT firms.

My second job is with a medium sized company storing data for insurance adjusters. I work with the oracle database, setting up the data schemas and configuring new clients for others in my group to create financial reports from. I am not a part of the development team, unfortunately. The place I work with now did not question my GPA since they are not an engineering firm and I readily answered their easy questions during the interview. They offered me the position right there during the interview. The engineers that were in my group have all left, even among the developers, so the situation is not the best. However, because all the other talent has left, that left me and they did not want to lose me. I used this situation to my advantage to obtain a 20% promotional increase after 1 year 9 months. I fill their more advanced technical needs that are basic skills in other places. For example, they once needed a perl script to delete specific files in a directory and the sysadmin stated he did not have the time for it. There was much flopping and twitching until they asked me if I could do it. I had not worked with perl before but I was able to figure out that simple script in a few hours.

Additionally, I support those I work with by helping them get through the issues they get stuck on. I also train them in some of the more advanced theoretical topics that are basic stuff for someone from a good engineering program. I communicate thoroughly with my group through broadcast emails and such as a means not to keep my work or achievement secret. This is seen by many as egotistic but I see it as keeping others informed of what is happening and letting them read through the issues and learn if they are so interested. Several of my co-workers find these issues interesting. I strive to share my knowledge rather than hoard it. This is something I learned while a submarine mechanic in the navy. I like to teach others what I know so I can move on and do other things. I personally dislike it when my co-workers keep their work to themselves since I then cannot learn from their progress.

Do I like what I do? Yes and no. I enjoy being a technical go-to person in one sense and in another I wish I was working on an engineering project. I also look at my soon to be ex-wife with her CPA and master's degree in tax accounting earning more than I do and I wonder if my current situation would be different if I had given up engineering and gone for accounting instead. However, I like what I do with computers; programming, data storage, architecture, repair and configuration. I do not think I would enjoy tax accounting so much but I am not certain. The math involved in finance attracts me as does statistics so I intend to pursue a cross-discipline that will still utilize my computer proficiency.

 

[magomago]

Listen

if you work with money, you'll - in most cases - make a lot of money.

It is that simple.

So someone like chusteczka- no SH|T she would make more ~ because her profession is to actually about working with money.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: Anubis
my sister is a lawyer she works much longer house then i do, her husband is a doc doing his residency and works absoutly horrid hours, teachers have some of the longest hours of anyone

I never would have figured, but I make maps and have to work some rough hours. Maps!

Maybe I should go be an EE...

For US Americans? Aww, gotta love charity work.:heart:

I don't think teachers work super long hours.

And engineers don't really get paid *that* much. Depends, of course.

 

[chusteczka]

Originally posted by: magomago
Listen

if you work with money, you'll - in most cases - make a lot of money.

It is that simple.

So someone like chusteczka- no SH|T she would make more ~ because her profession is to actually about working with money.

That is very true. She saves corporations millions of dollars by restructuring their business for less tax liability. It is no problem for her to be paid slightly less than $100,000. Whereas, I store data in a database and am seen as an expense.

My engineering program was more difficult than her accounting program, even through her master's degree and CPA tests. In the end, she gets paid more. However, she defined the top level of her class while I barely graduated. This has all made me think hard about the effort I have put in with continuing through the engineering program versus the same effort through the accounting program, and the end result.

The only way I can still make all this hard effort really worth it is by going through law school for intellectual property and patent law.

 

[oiprocs]

Originally posted by: chusteczka

Originally posted by: magomago
Listen

if you work with money, you'll - in most cases - make a lot of money.

It is that simple.

So someone like chusteczka- no SH|T she would make more ~ because her profession is to actually about working with money.

That is very true. She saves corporations millions of dollars by restructuring their business for less tax liability. It is no problem for her to be paid slightly less than $100,000. Whereas, I store data in a database and am seen as an expense.

My engineering program was more difficult than her accounting program, even through her master's degree and CPA tests. In the end, she gets paid more. However, she defined the top level of her class while I barely graduated. This has all made me think hard about the effort I have put in with continuing through the engineering program versus the same effort through the accounting program, and the end result.

The only way I can still make all this hard effort really worth it is by going through law school for intellectual property and patent law.

Why don't you just take the CPA tests and be an accountant? Or do you have to have a certain amount of classes?

Patent law will earn you some dough, but you'll be working 50+ weeks. Is that a trade you're willing to make? Or do you consider it more for the status?

 

[konakona]

Originally posted by: Anubis
i didnt major in engineering but its what i do now i majored in physics


money is always the wrong reason to do something, you want to do what you enjoy, people become teachers because they want to not for the money cause it isnt there...


engineering can also be boring as hell depending on what you do, 1/2 the time im doing something cool and 1/2 the time im fucking with data in excel

Then again, what you enjoy may not always be even considered for a reasonable venue for source of income. Besides, I am a type of guy that believes anything that you do for money to a point becomes (not necessarily, but more often that not) old and compulsory than volunteery(sp?) for many.

Sometimes I feel it is only fair to leave Ph.D.s to those who are really into their work most and foremost above all other things; cant say I hate EE, I do have some minor curiosity in the field after all. However, I would much rather spend my time on other non-paid objects of interest (e.g. hobbies) if I wasn't required to work.

I don't really care for all the noble ideas like advancing the society and whatnot, just need something I could get along with relatively well to make my ends meet. Ultimately, I wish I could retire right now, but we all need to make compromises with the reality of life. For one thing, I know I would rather be researching new materials than going out there trying to talk to strangers to sell insurance plans.

 

[FoBoT]

you like the sound of the train whistle?

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: Anubis
my sister is a lawyer she works much longer house then i do, her husband is a doc doing his residency and works absoutly horrid hours, teachers have some of the longest hours of anyone

I never would have figured, but I make maps and have to work some rough hours. Maps!

Maybe I should go be an EE...

For US Americans? Aww, gotta love charity work.:heart:

I don't think teachers work super long hours.

And engineers don't really get paid *that* much. Depends, of course.

try teaching a class of teenagers from 7-4 and then grading papers, its honestly worse then a 12 hour manual labor day, ive done both, teaching really really sucks, HS anyway. you have to really love it to enjoy it

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Anubis
i didnt major in engineering but its what i do now i majored in physics


money is always the wrong reason to do something, you want to do what you enjoy, people become teachers because they want to not for the money cause it isnt there...


engineering can also be boring as hell depending on what you do, 1/2 the time im doing something cool and 1/2 the time im fucking with data in excel

Yep, that's about the ratio I deal with as an Automation Systems Engineer. 1/2 is "boring" data manipulation and 1/2 is "cool" learning/design/programming.

 

[Fritzo]

Don't make the mistake I did. I went into engineering thinking I'd be able to wear a cool tall pinstriped had, overalls, and a red bandana around my neck.

To my shock and suprise, train engineers and the engineers they were talking about at school were two COMPLETELY different things!

They should have put a sign up or something :|

 

[chusteczka]

Originally posted by: Oiprocs

Originally posted by: chusteczka

Originally posted by: magomago
Listen

if you work with money, you'll - in most cases - make a lot of money.

It is that simple.

So someone like chusteczka- no SH|T she would make more ~ because her profession is to actually about working with money.

That is very true. She saves corporations millions of dollars by restructuring their business for less tax liability. It is no problem for her to be paid slightly less than $100,000. Whereas, I store data in a database and am seen as an expense.

My engineering program was more difficult than her accounting program, even through her master's degree and CPA tests. In the end, she gets paid more. However, she defined the top level of her class while I barely graduated. This has all made me think hard about the effort I have put in with continuing through the engineering program versus the same effort through the accounting program, and the end result.

The only way I can still make all this hard effort really worth it is by going through law school for intellectual property and patent law.

Why don't you just take the CPA tests and be an accountant? Or do you have to have a certain amount of classes?

Patent law will earn you some dough, but you'll be working 50+ weeks. Is that a trade you're willing to make? Or do you consider it more for the status?

Even though I minored in accounting, it would be necessary to take more classes to be eligible for the CPA exam, let alone have enough knowledge to actually pass the CPA exam. I think it would be another two years minimum. Besides, for accounting, it is best to get into a Master's degree tax program rather than auditing. Tax accountants are seen as heroes by their clients while auditors are seen as a necessary evil. My skills in engineering would better suite auditing since I can walk into most any engineering firm and understand their processes fairly quickly but I do not wish to have a career that is categorized as a necessary evil.

The reason for patent law is that I have been involved with the system for several years now through self-processed applications. I have submitted at least 10 different applications from which two have been successful, 4 have been rejected as obvious, 1 has been disqualified due to a clerical error by missing a deadline by a few days, and at least 3 more are still in prosecution. The hours would not bother me since I have worked 90+ hours per week as a submarine mechanic while getting paid a poverty wage. As long as the pay is there, then the time is worth it. Life is full of work whether it is at the office, at home, or doing other things. I would at least like to get paid for the work. Besides, it is fun finding the proper concise wording to describe a concept in a precise manner by breaking it down into its separate components. It is also sometimes fun to reply to an examiner's rejection with the many reasons why that rejection is inappropriate. Sometimes it works and sometimes it does not but the learning process of the successful approaches and the unsuccessful approaches is always interesting. The sense of accomplishment with the finalization of an application or reply is gratifying. Technical writing is often fun because I can describe concepts in my own way rather than be stuck reading through the mistakes others make. This is partly what led me to accept that first job as QA and technical documentation but that first job was not creative documentation and it grew old quickly.

 

[oiprocs]

3 years of law school is definitely an intense workload. But you seem committed to everything you want, so it doesn't look like you'll have a problem.

Thanks for your insight! :beer:

 

[theeedude]

Wrong reason to major in engineering is for the girls.