what are the long term effects of outsourcing?

[MrDudeMan]

what do you think will happen in the long run if big businesses keep moving to other countries? this may sound stupid, but if all of the top guys just get even more power hungry and greedy, they are going to run the country into the ground. sure, that may be happening already, but shouldnt there be some sort of law prohibiting this? i know if it is a private business, then that might not be fair, but for the sake of the country? why cant the bastards that make millions a year just suck it up and pay workers in the US instead of India?

FYI: this is not a rant...although it may seem like it, it isnt. i am just curious what you think will happen, so dont tell me to get over it or suck it up. im perfectly fine with whatever is going...i just want to know what you think will happen.


edit2: if you feel so compelled to call me a moron...read a few posts down and you will see i am not such a simple person that i cant understand US workers cost more to hire. duh

 

[Eli]

I don't think we really know.

 

[NogginBoink]

Salaries in India will go up, salaries in the U.S. will go down, until supply and demand find an equilibrium.

Capitalism at work.

 

[Viper GTS]

People seriously need to get over their hatred of outsourcing.

The US has always dumped it's crap jobs on other people. People bitched when manufacturing began to move out of the country, people will bitch for this too. What does it accomplish?

1) Lowers costs of goods
2) Increases profit for company
3) Provides good jobs for thousands of foreign workers (We may think it's horrible that they're paid a fraction of what we are, but in their world they're living like kings because of it)
4) It frees us up to do other things Who knows yet what those things will be, but there will always be a next big thing.

For the record, I'm being replaced by someone in Canada making less than 1/2 what I do. That's OK by me.

why cant the bastards that make millions a year just suck it up and pay workers in the US instead of India?

Because you, the consumer, are addicted to Hot Deals. You think nobody should be entitled to a profit, or (heaven forbid) make millions a year.

Friggin' socialistic crap.

[EDIT]As posted above me, things will reach equilibrium - In the meantime things are going to change rapidly. The only ones who get hurt are the ones who don't adapt.[/EDIT]

Viper GTS

 

[MrDudeMan]

viper i get what you are saying...really, i do. but see how you said increased profit for companies? the company will thrive, but US workers will not. if more and more people dont have jobs, isnt something really bad going to eventually happen?

 

[MacBaine]

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
what do you think will happen in the long run if big businessed keep moving to other countries? this may sound stupid, but if all of the top guys just get even more power hungry and greedy, they are going to run the country into the ground. sure, that may be happening already, but shouldnt there be some sort of law prohibiting this? i know if it is a private business, then that might not be fair, but for the sake of the country? why cant the bastards that make millions a year just suck it up and pay workers in the US instead of India?

Because it's a goddamn global economy, that's why. Get over it

 

[MrDudeMan]

so dell moved to another country...they are still selling their stuff at the same price, but they are doing it for way cheaper. sure, dell is doing much better, but think of all the people who no longer have jobs. that means they now have less income and cant afford to buy as much. ok, so take the next company, and move them, now another bunch of people make less. soon a lot of people will be making a lot less, so no one will even be able to afford things besides the basics anymore. it just doesnt make sense to me that companies would do this...someone please explain so that i can understand.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: MacBaine

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
what do you think will happen in the long run if big businessed keep moving to other countries? this may sound stupid, but if all of the top guys just get even more power hungry and greedy, they are going to run the country into the ground. sure, that may be happening already, but shouldnt there be some sort of law prohibiting this? i know if it is a private business, then that might not be fair, but for the sake of the country? why cant the bastards that make millions a year just suck it up and pay workers in the US instead of India?

Because it's a goddamn global economy, that's why. Get over it

nice & intelligent response

 

[Jzero]

Outsourcing of programmers, for example, allows a firm to hire 3 programmers for the cost of one in the US. This speeds up development time but decreases development costs, which allows the firm to hire more sales, marketing, support, etc stateside. Overall profits increase, productivity increases, and at the end of the day, more jobs are actually created, they just aren't the jobs we tech people want to see.

The world is becoming a smaller place. Isolationism is out. Globalism is in.

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
viper i get what you are saying...really, i do. but see how you said increased profit for companies? the company will thrive, but US workers will not. if more and more people dont have jobs, isnt something really bad going to eventually happen?

In the capitalist system, the drive for efficiency breeds innovation. If your job can be done cheaper by a machine, hello machine. You are out of a job. Keep in mind that all of a sudden there is a demand for designing, selling and maintaining machines...

In the case of outsourcing (specifically tech jobs), cheap foreign labor will drive much of the jobs abroad. The millions saved will be reinvested in order to further grow the companies. Jobs in other areas will increase.

Efficiency is NEVER bad for the economy as a whole in the long run...

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
what do you think will happen in the long run if big businessed keep moving to other countries? this may sound stupid, but if all of the top guys just get even more power hungry and greedy, they are going to run the country into the ground. sure, that may be happening already, but shouldnt there be some sort of law prohibiting this? i know if it is a private business, then that might not be fair, but for the sake of the country? why cant the bastards that make millions a year just suck it up and pay workers in the US instead of India?

FYI: this is not a rant...although it may seem like it, it isnt. i am just curious what you think will happen, so dont tell me to get over it or suck it up. im perfectly fine with whatever is going...i just want to know what you think will happen.

So you want the government to interfere in the economy, artificially creating demand by limiting outside products, keeping everyone in the US in a job. Sounds kinda... commie to me.

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: silverpig

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
what do you think will happen in the long run if big businessed keep moving to other countries? this may sound stupid, but if all of the top guys just get even more power hungry and greedy, they are going to run the country into the ground. sure, that may be happening already, but shouldnt there be some sort of law prohibiting this? i know if it is a private business, then that might not be fair, but for the sake of the country? why cant the bastards that make millions a year just suck it up and pay workers in the US instead of India?

FYI: this is not a rant...although it may seem like it, it isnt. i am just curious what you think will happen, so dont tell me to get over it or suck it up. im perfectly fine with whatever is going...i just want to know what you think will happen.

So you want the government to interfere in the economy, artificially creating demand by limiting outside products, keeping everyone in the US in a job. Sounds kinda... commie to me.

Democrat / Socialist - what's the difference?

 

[dman]

The only problem I have is we are endorsing a way of life that we don't accept on our own soil. And thus, we are pricing ourselves out of the market. More or less.

 

[NogginBoink]

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
so dell moved to another country...they are still selling their stuff at the same price, but they are doing it for way cheaper. sure, dell is doing much better, but think of all the people who no longer have jobs. that means they now have less income and cant afford to buy as much. ok, so take the next company, and move them, now another bunch of people make less. soon a lot of people will be making a lot less, so no one will even be able to afford things besides the basics anymore. it just doesnt make sense to me that companies would do this...someone please explain so that i can understand.

I'll try to use small words here so you can understand.

Workers in America are expensive. Workers overseas are cheap.

By hiring overseas workers, companies can produce goods cheaper and sell them cheaper and stay in business.

If companies hire American workers, it costs more to make stuff, so they have to sell that stuff at higher prices, and nobody buys the stuff, and the company that makes the stuff goes out of business.

What's so hard to understand about that?

 

[NogginBoink]

Originally posted by: dman
The only problem I have is we are endorsing a way of life that we don't accept on our own soil. And thus, we are pricing ourselves out of the market. More or less.

This is true. However, long-term, the standard of living overseas will increase as a result and will eventually reach equilibrium with domestic standards of living. At which time we'll probably see a wave of 'insourcing.'

 

[Zombie]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
People seriously need to get over their hatred of outsourcing.

The US has always dumped it's crap jobs on other people. People bitched when manufacturing began to move out of the country, people will bitch for this too. What does it accomplish?

1) Lowers costs of goods
2) Increases profit for company
3) Provides good jobs for thousands of foreign workers (We may think it's horrible that they're paid a fraction of what we are, but in their world they're living like kings because of it)
4) It frees us up to do other things Who knows yet what those things will be, but there will always be a next big thing.

For the record, I'm being replaced by someone in Canada making less than 1/2 what I do. That's OK by me.

why cant the bastards that make millions a year just suck it up and pay workers in the US instead of India?

Because you, the consumer, are addicted to Hot Deals. You think nobody should be entitled to a profit, or (heaven forbid) make millions a year.

Friggin' socialistic crap.

[EDIT]As posted above me, things will reach equilibrium - In the meantime things are going to change rapidly. The only ones who get hurt are the ones who don't adapt.[/EDIT]

Viper GTS

Wanna point out couple of things here

Education in India is far cheaper than in US(quality is comparable if not better) so its not exactly easy for US workers to just back to school.

Like you said if products are getting cheaper why is the cost of living going up? On the other hand cost of living in India has not gone up that much(considering money people are making now as opposed to 10 years ago)

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: NogginBoink

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
so dell moved to another country...they are still selling their stuff at the same price, but they are doing it for way cheaper. sure, dell is doing much better, but think of all the people who no longer have jobs. that means they now have less income and cant afford to buy as much. ok, so take the next company, and move them, now another bunch of people make less. soon a lot of people will be making a lot less, so no one will even be able to afford things besides the basics anymore. it just doesnt make sense to me that companies would do this...someone please explain so that i can understand.

I'll try to use small words here so you can understand.

Workers in America are expensive. Workers overseas are cheap.

By hiring overseas workers, companies can produce goods cheaper and sell them cheaper and stay in business.

If companies hire American workers, it costs more to make stuff, so they have to sell them at more expensive prices, and nobody buys them, and the company goes out of business.

What's so hard to understand about that?

its just a question. i am perfectly capable of understanding bigger words, so if you think you can give a more indepth analysis, i am all for it. otherwise, shove it up your ass.

that is the most elementary concept...and any idiot can understand it. did you even read what i said a few posts down?

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: silverpig

So you want the government to interfere in the economy, artificially creating demand by limiting outside products, keeping everyone in the US in a job. Sounds kinda... commie to me.

moron

read what i said and try not to be such a troll. this has nothing to do with what i personally wish would happen...it is just a question.

edit: ok, and then what happens when the majority of the US is out of a job? will you pick up trash or flip burgers for a living? only so many people will be available to do that, and not enough people will even have enough money to buy the burgers. do you see what i mean? if no one here has a job, isnt that going to royally fvck up our country?

and i realize not EVERYONE is going to be out of a job...but a lot of companies are starting to move, so wouldnt it be a big enough chuck to substantially hurt the economy?

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: Zombie

Wanna point out couple of things here

Education in India is far cheaper than in US(quality is comparable if not better) so its not exactly easy for US workers to just back to school.

Like you said if products are getting cheaper why is the cost of living going up? On the other hand cost of living in India has not gone up that much(considering money people are making now as opposed to 10 years ago)

this is more along the lines of what i am driving at

 

[BD2003]

As everyone has said before, its a global economy. Outsourcing programming to india is the same as having our sneakers made in china. Its just cheaper there.

Although I am in agreement that most of the new jobs coming up here are low paying, that will also reach equilibrium. I believe that what we need to do is revamp our education system to make it cheaper. We need more skills to survive nowadays, and we are going to be in a dire situation if our population is not up to the task. With education getting so expensive, only the currently rich can afford it, and then we're slowly going back to the middle ages. It needs to stop.

Right now we are in a transitionary period. Programming is a pretty high level job, and its being done overseas...whats next? For the short term, american wealth will probably on average go down (not considering the greedy CEOs), while the developing countries go up. But once the indians themselves can afford to buy all this stuff we cant get enough of, the trade deficit will slowly dimish, and next thing you know, indian companies might be outsourcing to america cause its too damn expensive there.

Because nowadays, you have to have foresight. Instead of bitching how things arent how they used to be, you have to be able to adapt and find a niche where you can thrive. Instead of bitching how dell jobs are getting sent overseas, buy dell stock. I think that the average american simply does not realize how filthy rich he is compared to the rest of the world. We take EVERYTHING for granted here, and now we're being spoiled babies because some of it is getting taken away. To think some people might not be able to afford that SUV this year, and have to go with an econobox...while the rest of the world can barely afford econoboxes to begin with.

Because if all goes as planned, the end result will be an entire world that is civilized and wealthy. When everyone has money, there will be much less cause for war, and damn cooler things, because theres quite simply more smart and rich people. But we started this mess, so now we have to sit through it to the end. Our politicians are pandering to the masses and telling them what they want to hear.

 

[marquee]

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Originally posted by: Zombie

Wanna point out couple of things here

Education in India is far cheaper than in US(quality is comparable if not better) so its not exactly easy for US workers to just back to school.

Like you said if products are getting cheaper why is the cost of living going up? On the other hand cost of living in India has not gone up that much(considering money people are making now as opposed to 10 years ago)

this is more along the lines of what i am driving at

I think the cost of living takes more than just product prices, it also accounts for increases in renting/buying homes, energy costs (gas is getting more expensive), higher college tuition prices, health care costs, insurance, etc... Inflation the last few years has pretty much been non existant, but there's more to that when calculating cost of living.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: BD2003
As everyone has said before, its a global economy. Outsourcing programming to india is the same as having our sneakers made in china. Its just cheaper there.

Although I am in agreement that most of the new jobs coming up here are low paying, that will also reach equilibrium. I believe that what we need to do is revamp our education system to make it cheaper. We need more skills to survive nowadays, and we are going to be in a dire situation if our population is not up to the task. With education getting so expensive, only the currently rich can afford it, and then we're slowly going back to the middle ages. It needs to stop.

Right now we are in a transitionary period. Programming is a pretty high level job, and its being done overseas...whats next? For the short term, american wealth will probably on average go down (not considering the greedy CEOs), while the developing countries go up. But once the indians themselves can afford to buy all this stuff we cant get enough of, the trade deficit will slowly dimish, and next thing you know, indian companies might be outsourcing to america cause its too damn expensive there.

Because nowadays, you have to have foresight. Instead of bitching how things arent how they used to be, you have to be able to adapt and find a niche where you can thrive. Instead of bitching how dell jobs are getting sent overseas, buy dell stock. I think that the average american simply does not realize how filthy rich he is compared to the rest of the world. We take EVERYTHING for granted here, and now we're being spoiled babies because some of it is getting taken away. To think some people might not be able to afford that SUV this year, and have to go with an econobox...while the rest of the world can barely afford econoboxes to begin with.

Because if all goes as planned, the end result will be an entire world that is civilized and wealthy. When everyone has money, there will be much less cause for war, and damn cooler things, because theres quite simply more smart and rich people. But we started this mess, so now we have to sit through it to the end. Our politicians are pandering to the masses and telling them what they want to hear.

excellent...exactly the response i was looking for. btw, i hope you werent saying i was bitching. i was just giving examples to help people to understand what i was interested in talking about. i can adapt fairly well and i realize the only way to get moving financially is to either find a niche or be exceptional at what everyone else can already do.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: marquee

I think the cost of living takes more than just product prices, it also accounts for increases in renting/buying homes, energy costs (gas is getting more expensive), higher college tuition prices, health care costs, insurance, etc... Inflation the last few years has pretty much been non existant, but there's more to that when calculating cost of living.

good points...now i am curious what YOU think will be the outcome of outsourcing. good or bad?

 

[Zombie]

I believe that what we need to do is revamp our education system to make it cheaper.

hahahaha, that will never happen in US.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: BD2003
As everyone has said before, its a global economy. Outsourcing programming to india is the same as having our sneakers made in china. Its just cheaper there.

Although I am in agreement that most of the new jobs coming up here are low paying, that will also reach equilibrium. I believe that what we need to do is revamp our education system to make it cheaper. We need more skills to survive nowadays, and we are going to be in a dire situation if our population is not up to the task. With education getting so expensive, only the currently rich can afford it, and then we're slowly going back to the middle ages. It needs to stop.

Right now we are in a transitionary period. Programming is a pretty high level job, and its being done overseas...whats next? For the short term, american wealth will probably on average go down (not considering the greedy CEOs), while the developing countries go up. But once the indians themselves can afford to buy all this stuff we cant get enough of, the trade deficit will slowly dimish, and next thing you know, indian companies might be outsourcing to america cause its too damn expensive there.

Because nowadays, you have to have foresight. Instead of bitching how things arent how they used to be, you have to be able to adapt and find a niche where you can thrive. Instead of bitching how dell jobs are getting sent overseas, buy dell stock. I think that the average american simply does not realize how filthy rich he is compared to the rest of the world. We take EVERYTHING for granted here, and now we're being spoiled babies because some of it is getting taken away. To think some people might not be able to afford that SUV this year, and have to go with an econobox...while the rest of the world can barely afford econoboxes to begin with.

Because if all goes as planned, the end result will be an entire world that is civilized and wealthy. When everyone has money, there will be much less cause for war, and damn cooler things, because theres quite simply more smart and rich people. But we started this mess, so now we have to sit through it to the end. Our politicians are pandering to the masses and telling them what they want to hear.

Finally, someone sees the bigger picture.

I agree, you guys shouldn't be crisping him for a question. It isn't hard to understand that "It will reach equilibrium", and "It will all be OK..." aren't going to be enough for some people.