What are the chances of Apple getting in the x86 business?

[shady28]

We do realize that TSMC outsold Intel in the most recent quarter? Intel's business model is wavering. Companies like Apple have no reason to enter that space, they can use TSMC, GloFlo, even IBM.

 

[Revolution 11]

We do realize that TSMC outsold Intel in the most recent quarter? Intel's business model is wavering. Companies like Apple have no reason to enter that space, they can use TSMC, GloFlo, even IBM.

Revenues ≠ profits. Outselling product ≠ making more money.

 

[insertcarehere]

The chances of Apple moving out of x86 altogether (at least for non workstation stuff) is far greater than them moving into x86.

 

[Zodiark1593]

Apple has a better chance of all it's Macs going ARM than Apple making x86 chips.

 

[StrangerGuy]

Revenues ≠ profits. Outselling product ≠ making more money.

Pretty much irrelevant anyway. Apple/Samsung/etc have long realized the sweet sweet margins moved into selling finished products, not chips.

 

[jhu]

Intel owns x86. Anyone else who produces x86 CPUs has a license from Intel.

Not necessarily. If it's only Pentium compatible, it may not need a license since any patents that were implented in that processor have expired.

 

[lamedude]

The Pentium has indeed been liberated.

 

[ShintaiDK]

We do realize that TSMC outsold Intel in the most recent quarter? Intel's business model is wavering. Companies like Apple have no reason to enter that space, they can use TSMC, GloFlo, even IBM.

Keep posting wrong doesnt make it right.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2344229

 

[Idontcare]

We do realize that TSMC outsold Intel in the most recent quarter? Intel's business model is wavering. Companies like Apple have no reason to enter that space, they can use TSMC, GloFlo, even IBM.

TSMC did no such thing.

 

[Dribble]

Apple has a better chance of all it's Macs going ARM than Apple making x86 chips.

Just a matter of time - the A7 was a statement of intent.

 

[Zodiark1593]

Just a matter of time - the A7 was a statement of intent.

They'd need an ARM processor capable of surpassing the high end Intel Processor it will be up against though (for those who actually need work done).

 

[Fjodor2001]

isnt via's x86 license expiring soon?

So the licenses are not perpetual? I.e. Intel can also refuse to renew AMD's x86 license when it expires and effectively put AMD out of business?

 

[nehalem256]

How difficult/feasible would it be for AMD to build a Transmeta type CPU that could emulate ARM code while still staying x86-native? Such a move might save some die area involved with having full ARM core along with the x86 cores.

My understanding was that modern x86 CPUs already break the original x86 instructions into internal RISCops. I would think you could bolt on an alternate front-end that decomposed ARM instructions into the same RISCops without too much difficulty.

Although it seems unlikely that such a design could beat a native ARM cpu in performance/watt

 

[scannall]

So the licenses are not perpetual? I.e. Intel can also refuse to renew AMD's x86 license when it expires and effectively put AMD out of business?

Except that Intel uses AMD's 64 bit architecture. Intel needs them alive, if only barely.

 

[CHADBOGA]

Except that Intel uses AMD's 64 bit architecture. Intel needs them alive, if only barely.

Not for licensing purposes.

 

[Jimzz]

Better chance of Apple just buying Arm company then getting into x86.

 

[scannall]

Not for licensing purposes.

Perhaps. But it makes their life much easier if AMD remains a little bit alive. Since AMD's market share costs Intel almost nothing, and gives them cover from the assorted anti-trust agencies around the world.

 

[Rakehellion]

ARM will plateau sooner than x86. These bounding performance gains won't go on forever.

 

[Dribble]

They'd need an ARM processor capable of surpassing the high end Intel Processor it will be up against though (for those who actually need work done).

A7 processor is as good as anything Intel has at that power level, who's to say they can't scale that design up over time. Remember too x86 is a dated design - it's all about huge general purpose processors. That's not how all these portable cpu's work, going for a much more asymmetric design with more light weight general purpose cores and specialist hardware for specialist tasks. Apple and the other ARM players will push these more modern ideas up into their larger cpu's too giving them big advantages where they can use their specialist hardware. Intel are not very good at that - it's AMD trying to push that forward in x86, but they fail because Intel controls the market and MS doesn't try to support it (windows is also big and old and not really set-up for asymmetric cpu's). That's not a problem Apple would have as they would make all the cpu's and the OS.

 

[Techhog]

We should be asking when Apple will will move their entire ecosystem to ARM.

Bingo. In fact, I think all of their Macs will be completely phased out in the near future with the possible exception of the Mac Pro.

 

[Ajay]

It looks like the days of x86 being dominant are passing there already at the front of the ARM train taking away that market share it just makes no sense.

Numerically, the days of x86 have already passed. Considering the headroom still available to ARM (as demonstrated by Apple's A7), there is no reason for Apple to consider x86. With 64b ARMv8-A available to them, I'm guessing Apple has started compiling Mac OSX on the A7 waiting to see if it offers sufficient performance to potential unite the company's hardware under one architecture again. It may take ten years, but what does Apple have to lose?

 

[Ajay]

Bingo. In fact, I think all of their Macs will be completely phased out in the near future with the possible exception of the Mac Pro.

I suspect that the Mac Pro will just be dropped by the time ARM is in a position to become the only architecture Apple supports.

 

[ShintaiDK]

I doubt Apple will leave x86 anytime soon, if ever. I have a feeling its gonna go the other way.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

A high performance, low power chip. No one's buying Atoms or i7s anymore.

I guess you haven't been watching what Intel has been doing with Haswell and moving forward?

half the reason Apple hardware can deliver such great battery life is the fact that they also have control over the software that runs it

if people aren't buying i7s its because they don't need/want the high performance, its power characteristics aren't the reason

Apple is thinking of ditching x86 not because they think they can create something equally powerful, but more because they think that speed is overkill and would rather sacrifice speed for even better power characteristics, but more importantly, they'd not longer be tied to Intel for their chip needs (ie more profit for Apple)

 

[Eug]

Ironically, one of the chip companies Apple bought not too long ago was actually PowerPC.

And I just bought a PowerPC Synology NAS.

LONG LIVE PPC!!! (j/k, and the PPC company Apple bought was actually to help them build ARM chips.)

BTW, Apple has enough money to buy Intel (and their fabs) outright, but I don't see any point for them to do so.