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What are tachyons?

The things that the Enterprize keeps running into, and that Laforge can not get rid of?

Sorry, could not resist. 😀

Basicly tachyons were proposed by sud, desh and bill ( don't remeber the rest of their names ). When a tachyon looses energy it speeds up. The slowest possable speed for a tachyon is the speed of light. Are you confused yet?

In 96-7 ( don't remember ) it was proven that they could have mass, and that maybe a Neutrino is actually a tachyon.

The only way I know of to look for tachyons is to look for crenkov ( yes my spelling on that word is horrable ) radiation in a vacuum, as crenkov radiation is given off when a particle passes through a given medium fater than light.
 
Evadman, your definition for a tachyon is confusued. You cannot define a tachyon using properties of traditional matter. A tachyon is a particle, that in its rest state is constantly moving a faster than light speeds. Tachyons do not have mass in the traditional sense, the have a negative mass weight, such as -10 grams. A Neutrino is not a tachyon, those are two completely different particles. Neutrinos are sub-light speed particles, from the lepton family, just like electrons. Electrons and neutrinos are different types of leptons (muons and tau's are the other two leptons). We do not know how to detect them. If we could look for a certain type of radiation, then we would have found them already. My neighbor is a world renound scientist who was one of the first people to propose the existance of the tachyon. He wrote a few papers on them. He proved using Einstein's E=mc^2 equation to show that as energy is added to a tachyon is slows down, and as energy is removed from a tachyon it speeds up. To get a tachyon to sub-light speeds, you need to add an infinite amount of energy (the opposite is true of sub-light speed matter, to get sub-light speed matter faster than light, an infinite amount of energy is required to be added), and to get a tachyon to move at infinite velocity, you must keep removing an infinite amount of energy (the opposite is true of sub-light speed matter, to get sub-light speed matter down to a stop, you must remove an infinite amount of energy).
 
I was attempting to define it in a way such that a head would not explode. Then I would have to get out the mop and bucket. And I did say "maybe a neutrino" as a few people smarter than me have sugjested it. I also should have said Negitive mass as you said, my bad.

Neutrino= Tachyon?

Web link #1 (GMU)
Web link #2 (Geocities) Not the best.
Web link #3 (GMU) Personal Site.

It is just a theory, nothing proven. Just as Tachyons have not been proven to exist. Maybe it is because we have no way to measure / observe them, or maybe they don't exist. Only time will tell ( hopefully )
 
As I stated before, neutrinos are from the family of leptons. They are not the same thing as tachyons. If you don't believe me, do a web search for an acutal physics site, not a school physics site, that talks about tachyons and neutrinos. Neutrinos have a positive mass value while tachyons have an imaginary mass value (I was thinking of exotic matter when I said negative mass value). Just to say once more Neutrinos ARE NOT Tachyons. We have proven that neutrinos have positive mass value (very very small though, even smaller than an electron. An electrons mass is 1/1837 AMU, so a neutrino is smaller than that.). When a number is plugged into E=mc^2 that will allow the tachyon to exist, you always have the square root of a negative number, which is imaginary. Just don't get them confused because they are two different particles in nature, one which is profen to exist in sub-light speeds (neutrinos), and the tachyon has been proven to exist and faster than light speed through E=mc^2.
 
Ok, Ok, I believe you, A tachyon is not a Neutrino 🙂

Do you have any info / links / articles you can point me to that prove a tachyon exists? My research ( very little of it 🙂 ) all say / show that the tachyon has not been proven to exist, but that it "may" exist, and is allowed by current physics theorys.

<edit>
I am going to show my ignorance here, as it seems that you know what you are talking about. If a particle like a tachyon has a imaginary mass, will that particle "interface" or be affected by gravity, or will it remain unaffected?
 
The only proof I could give you is to look for a website that shows the equation E=mc^2 where the result is an imaginary mass. When you ask if they are affected by gravity, do you mean just to weigh more when in a gravitional field, or do you mean about its trajectory being cahnged by the gravitational field?
 


<< The only way I know of to look for tachyons is to look for crenkov ( yes my spelling on that word is horrable ) radiation in a vacuum, as crenkov radiation is given off when a particle passes through a given medium fater than light. >>



FYI, its russian so you'd have a hard time spelling it right here anyhow. You need that C with a hook on it. It is pronounced Cherenkov radiation and the Ch seems to be an acceptable substitute. If you want to look at some more information about it, my friend and I made a page regarding aerogel and Cherenkov radiation. Below it, you can find a report (in .ps format) on an analysis of the prototype Cherenkov radiation detector for an experiment. http://www.fiu.edu/expnuc/aerogel/aerogel.html
 
Cherenkov radiation may have something to do with aerogel, but as I stated before it does not have to do with tachyons. Tachyons cannot be detected in a taditional manner.
 
No time for a lengthy post, let's just say tachyons are particles that can (theoretically) travel faster than light, due to their negative mass.
 


<< No time for a lengthy post, let's just say tachyons are particles that can (theoretically) travel faster than light, due to their negative mass. >>



They do not have positive of negative mass. Tachyons have imaginary mass. An imaginary number is the sqaure root of a negative number (i = the square root of -1). Particle with negative mass are known as exotic matter. If you want me to go into what exotic matter is just post it in this thread and I will speak my brilliant mind about them.
 


<< The only proof I could give you is to look for a website that shows the equation E=mc^2 where the result is an imaginary mass. When you ask if they are affected by gravity, do you mean just to weigh more when in a gravitional field, or do you mean about its trajectory being cahnged by the gravitational field? >>


I was refering to the force generated against the particle by gravity. Much like a ball falls towards the Earth, would a Tachyon Accelerate towards the Earth, Away from the Earth or remain unafected.


<< Cherenkov radiation may have something to do with aerogel, but as I stated before it does not have to do with tachyons. Tachyons cannot be detected in a taditional manner. >>


I was under the impresion ( falsely I guess ) that Cherenkov radiation is produced when a particle passes through a given medium at a speed faster than light can. ( Such as the radiation in a Nuclear pond. ) the gamma radiation is moving "faster than light" as the water slows down the speed of light. So you should be able to look for Cherenkov radiation in a vacuum right? Or am I streching too many princaples?
 
As far as I know, tachyons are not effected by the traditional notion of gravity. As I stated previousely, tachyons are do not interact with our perception of the universe in the same way sub-light speed particles interact with the universe. Tachyons are in constant motion, and as long as the amount of energy the contain is constant, they are moving at a constant velocity greater than light. When a sub-light speed particle is affected by gravity, it is actually "sucked" into the gravitational field. Whether or not tachyons are "sucked" into the gravtiational field, I am not sure. I never heard anyone speak about this idea, if tachyons are affected by gravity. I can ask my neighbor who wrote one of the first theories on tachyons, but I'm not sure if he will know. I am going to see him at work (Yes, we work together too) on Wednesday, so I'll let you all know then.
 


<< I was under the impresion ( falsely I guess ) that Cherenkov radiation is produced when a particle passes through a given medium at a speed faster than light can. ( Such as the radiation in a Nuclear pond. ) the gamma radiation is moving "faster than light" as the water slows down the speed of light. So you should be able to look for Cherenkov radiation in a vacuum right? Or am I streching too many princaples? >>



Gamma radiation is classified as a wave moving at sub-light speeds. If it were faster than light, it would be part of the tachyon family. All a gamma ray is, is a fast moving X-ray. As you know, X-rays can be stopped fairly easily by bone. Gamma rays will pass straight through your bones, cells, etc... and is it passes through it will cause chromosomal damage. We can detect gamma rays with a Geiger counter. If gamma rays were faster than light, then tachyons should be able to be detected with a Geiger counter, but since gamma rays are sub-light speed gamma rays are able to be detected with a Geiger counter. Tachyons are faster than light, therefore if we wanted to detect them we would need some sort of material that will not do an energy conversion at the speed of light.
 


<< Tachyons cannot be detected in a taditional manner. >>



Perhaps an explanation of the tachyon detectors could be given? I recall reading/hearing about some expensive and large detectors being constructed but I cannot recall any further details or even the basics of the physics behind it.
 
Originally posted by: DRGrim
There are large things being built to detect neutrinos. Perhaps this is what you were thinking of?
Click to expand...

probably, has a better ring to it in my "memory banks".. my mistake 😉
 
Hmm... I remember learning in my physics class that neutrinos also travel at the speed of light (even though I believe recent research seems to indicate that neutrinos have mass as well) along with photons. About the gamma and X-rays, both travel at the speed of light no? They are both made of photons (of different frequencies/wavelengths) and light is basically the manipulation of electro-magnetic fields. Sorry if everything is a little vague.. just my two cents.
 
Originally posted by: DRGrim
There are large things being built to detect neutrinos. Perhaps this is what you were thinking of?
Click to expand...
Oh and does anyone know why they are building massive heavy water tanks (underground?) to detect neutrinos?
 
I don't think neutrinos travel at the speed of light. Neutrinos emitted from the sun travel so quickly that they actually live long enough to make it to Earth. Normally, I think they go bye bye very quickly (Far less than one second, I believe).
As for the huge tanks, those are being built because neutrinos will either light up for a brief moment passing through or something similar, I forget.
 
Neutrinos are tardons (sub-light speed particles). They move slower than the speed of light. It takes light 8 minutes to reach Earth, and the neutrinos are not far behind. They do not vanish as quickly as you think, they actually can last for a while. The ones that vanish quickly are the one we produce in particle accelerators.
 
Originally posted by: KraziKid
Neutrinos are tardons (sub-light speed particles). They move slower than the speed of light. It takes light 8 minutes to reach Earth, and the neutrinos are not far behind. They do not vanish as quickly as you think, they actually can last for a while. The ones that vanish quickly are the one we produce in particle accelerators.
Click to expand...

The reason neutrinos last the whole eight minutes or so of space flight is because they're moving so fast. I wouldn't be surprised if they make it to Jupiter or beyond.
The reason neutrinos in particle accelerators don't last as long is because, well, they're not moving that fast.
Can you figure out why?
 
KraziKid,

Let's assume that gravitons (sp?) exist and that they represent the gravitational force.
If Tachyons were affected by gravity, wouldn't that make gravitons some king of tachyons?
If you would want to affect a particle moving faster than light, shouldn't you be even faster?

Menel.
 
Originally posted by: MistaEng
Originally posted by: DRGrim
There are large things being built to detect neutrinos. Perhaps this is what you were thinking of?
Click to expand...
Oh and does anyone know why they are building massive heavy water tanks (underground?) to detect neutrinos?
Click to expand...

That would be because heavy water is used to detect neutrinos. The neutrinos will pass through just about anything as they can fit between an atom and the electron cloud. An atom is 99.9 empty space. Imagine a tennis ball in a football stadium. The tennis ball would be the protons and neutrons, the outer seating section would be the electron cloud. The neutrinos will pass though all that empty space with out affecting either the existing atom or the neutrino.

When a neutrino actually hits the center of an atom a flash of light is given off ( flash is being generous ).

The heavy water detectors are being built far underground so the Earth itself is zacting as a filter to keep unwanted particles out of the detector. Also, these dectors usually "look" though the Earth not up.
 
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