What are some non-biblical/religious arguments against evolution?

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StevenYoo

Diamond Member
Jul 4, 2001
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I read on carm.org (a christian apologetic site) that it's mathematically improbable that evolution took place.

you can read it here http://www.carm.org/evolution/evodds.htm

It essentially says that based on the frequency of genetic mutations that actually make it past DNA repair mechanisms, it would take a really frikkin long-ass time to get to the amount of diversity we have now.

My counterpoint is that DNA repair mechanisms were probably really crappy way back then, allowing for more random point mutations in a shorter period of time. But i'm no evolutionary biologist, so I could be wrong.

I am a Christian that does indeed believe in evolution. However, the only arguments against evolution that I've heard are ones from right-wing christians. Do other people in the science field have any REAL scientific arguments against it?
 
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StevenYoo

Diamond Member
Jul 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: Citrix
its a therory not fact. there is no proof of evolution.
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well of course that's true, but what are the arguments (from a scientific standpoint) that keep it a theory? Only because we can't re-create it in a controlled setting?
 
Aikouka

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
ID uses the mathematical improbability argument, not Christians.

One day, I was sitting and I came up with the idea of theistic evolution... then I realized someone thought of it like 5 years ago (5 years at the time I thought of it). :( I was a sad panda after finding that tout.
 
XMan

XMan

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
12,513
49
91
I don't deny that species can adapt to changes in environment, and those that do tend to survive, but the one question I've had about evolution (and never had explained to my satisfaction) is - if mankind descended from apes, why are there still apes? Dinosaurs were the predecessors to birds, but there aren't any more dinosaurs.
 
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Norris

Member
Mar 6, 2005
45
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Xman, Man did not evolve for the species of apes that are currently living among us.
 
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morkman100

Senior member
Jun 2, 2003
383
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Originally posted by: XMan
I don't deny that species can adapt to changes in environment, and those that do tend to survive, but the one question I've had about evolution (and never had explained to my satisfaction) is - if mankind descended from apes, why are there still apes? Dinosaurs were the predecessors to birds, but there aren't any more dinosaurs.
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Evolution does not say that Man evolved from Apes. It says that Man and Ape have a common ancestor.
 
OutHouse

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Originally posted by: morkman100
Originally posted by: XMan
I don't deny that species can adapt to changes in environment, and those that do tend to survive, but the one question I've had about evolution (and never had explained to my satisfaction) is - if mankind descended from apes, why are there still apes? Dinosaurs were the predecessors to birds, but there aren't any more dinosaurs.
Click to expand...

Evolution does not say that Man evolved from Apes. It says that Man and Ape have a common ancestor.
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good luck in proving that.
 
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Descartes

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
13,968
2
0
Originally posted by: StevenYoo
I read on carm.org (a christian apologetic site) that it's mathematically improbable that evolution took place.

you can read it here http://www.carm.org/evolution/evodds.htm

It essentially says that based on the frequency of genetic mutations that actually make it past DNA repair mechanisms, it would take a really frikkin long-ass time to get to the amount of diversity we have now.
Click to expand...

Yes. So?

My counterpoint is that DNA repair mechanisms were probably really crappy way back then, allowing for more random point mutations in a shorter period of time. But i'm no evolutionary biologist, so I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

No need to try and extrapolate your own theories. The current ones cover this point ad nauseum. Read The Structure of Evolutionary Theory if you want a full response, or you could perhaps look to Dawkins' The Blind Watchmaker for a more concise, albeit perhaps a little biased, response. Finally, you could look over TalkOrigins for more information.

Seriously, there's not a single new argument from creationists/IDists/ignorants that hasn't already been discussed millions of times.

I am a Christian that does indeed believe in evolution. However, the only arguments against evolution that I've heard are ones from right-wing christians. Do other people in the science field have any REAL scientific arguments against it?
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Agreed. There's no need for evidence against something that quite obviously occurs. Evolution happens... this is an unequivocal fact. The means by which it occurs will forever be argued I am sure, but we can at least save time by arguing on a proper footing based on current information.
 
Inspector Jihad

Inspector Jihad

Lifer
Apr 17, 2005
13,465
3
81
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: morkman100
Originally posted by: XMan
I don't deny that species can adapt to changes in environment, and those that do tend to survive, but the one question I've had about evolution (and never had explained to my satisfaction) is - if mankind descended from apes, why are there still apes? Dinosaurs were the predecessors to birds, but there aren't any more dinosaurs.
Click to expand...

Evolution does not say that Man evolved from Apes. It says that Man and Ape have a common ancestor.
Click to expand...

good luck in proving that.
Click to expand...

lolz...are you serious?



"can you believe three of the republican candidates don't believe in evolution?"
"yeah...and it turns out to be the three least evolved ones."
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
 
D

Descartes

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
13,968
2
0
Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: morkman100
Originally posted by: XMan
I don't deny that species can adapt to changes in environment, and those that do tend to survive, but the one question I've had about evolution (and never had explained to my satisfaction) is - if mankind descended from apes, why are there still apes? Dinosaurs were the predecessors to birds, but there aren't any more dinosaurs.
Click to expand...

Evolution does not say that Man evolved from Apes. It says that Man and Ape have a common ancestor.
Click to expand...

good luck in proving that.
Click to expand...

lolz...are you serious?
Click to expand...

He's trolling.
 
So

So

Lifer
Jul 2, 2001
25,923
17
81
There are no non-religious arguments against evolution, only thinly veiled religious ones pretending not to be, and ignoring the mountains of proof supporting the scientific FACT that evolution occurs.
 
TankGuys

TankGuys

Golden Member
Jun 3, 2005
1,080
0
0
Originally posted by: XMan
I don't deny that species can adapt to changes in environment, and those that do tend to survive, but the one question I've had about evolution (and never had explained to my satisfaction) is - if mankind descended from apes, why are there still apes? Dinosaurs were the predecessors to birds, but there aren't any more dinosaurs.
Click to expand...

Just as morkman100 said, evolution does not say man evolved from apes. This is a huge misconception that people have, and is an oft cited argument used to creation supporters.

It says we had a common ancestor. Think of it this way: Brothers and sisters are not the same people, but have the same parents. This is a very basic analogy to what evolution theory says about man/apes.
 
Inspector Jihad

Inspector Jihad

Lifer
Apr 17, 2005
13,465
3
81
most people who argue about evolution are hopelessly uneducated in that area of biology and should read a freshman biology textbook or stfu.
 
G

gerwen

Senior member
Nov 24, 2006
312
0
0
Originally posted by: Norris
its a therory not fact. there is no proof of evolution.
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Besides the fossil/bone remains that have been found of primative man?
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God created the fossil record as a test of our faith.

Oh wait, that's not a secular argument.

How about:
That's not proof! It's only evidence, and, um, it's really good evidence actually.


There's not much evidence of intelligent design imo. I'd like to hear some that isn't just random coincidence.
 
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