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What are PCI Express x1 and x4 slots for? Who uses them?

sygyzy

sygyzy

Lifer
I noticed that aside from the PCI Express x16 ports used for (mostly) graphics cards, there are shorter ones like x1 and x4. Does anyone use these ports on their boards? And if so, for what?
 
Originally posted by: sygyzy
I noticed that aside from the PCI Express x16 ports used for (mostly) graphics cards, there are shorter ones like x1 and x4. Does anyone use these ports on their boards? And if so, for what?
Click to expand...

Searching -- at all -- might have revealed that you can get cards such as the following:

Gigabit Ethernet NICs
Fibre Channel cards
SATA drive/RAID controllers
Video capture cards
USB/Firewire cards

for PCIex1/x4 slots. Over the next few years, pretty much anything that uses PCI today will be switched over to PCIex1 instead, or possibly PCIex4 if it needs the extra bandwidth.

some examples
 
That's amazing they make graphics cards that are x1. They are the shortest ones right? The trend seems to be toward more and more connectors, not less.
 
Originally posted by: sygyzy
That's amazing they make graphics cards that are x1. They are the shortest ones right? The trend seems to be toward more and more connectors, not less.
Click to expand...

size doesnt matter 😉
I think PCI express x1 is almost double the bandwidth of PCI, but I could be wrong.
 
Originally posted by: sygyzy
That's amazing they make graphics cards that are x1. They are the shortest ones right? The trend seems to be toward more and more connectors, not less.
Click to expand...

It's a video capture card, not a graphics card.
 
Originally posted by: Buck Naked
Originally posted by: sygyzy
That's amazing they make graphics cards that are x1. They are the shortest ones right? The trend seems to be toward more and more connectors, not less.
Click to expand...

size doesnt matter 😉
I think PCI express x1 is almost double the bandwidth of PCI, but I could be wrong.
Click to expand...


Pci express x1 has the same bandwidth as pci except that pci express is full duplex, so it can transmit and recieve data at the same time. So u can say that pci express x1 has double the bandwidths but its not really technicaly correct. Also when it comes to practical use the pci express interface should be a lot better as it doesnt have to share its connection with other devices.
 
Originally posted by: Tick
Originally posted by: DotheDamnTHing
why not make all pci express slots pci x16?
Click to expand...

Cost. Controller logic is expensive.
Click to expand...

No... thats an extra $15 per board to use multiple chipsets.

Putting enough silvered tracing on 8-layer PCB for that much bandwidth is insanely difficult. You'd need a 12x13" EATX SSI sized board to even consider it. And the development cost would skyrocket.

Originally posted by: Dark Cupcake
Pci express x1 has the same bandwidth as pci except that pci express is full duplex, so it can transmit and recieve data at the same time. So u can say that pci express x1 has double the bandwidths but its not really technicaly correct. Also when it comes to practical use the pci express interface should be a lot better as it doesnt have to share its connection with other devices.
Click to expand...


PCI 2.2 has 133MB/s bandwidth. x1 PCIe express has 250MB/s direction! It thats not roughly 2x as fast (potentially four times as fast) I dunno what is.


Also, Canopus Edius NX is a very expensive NLE system, but it only needs a x1 PCIe slot.
 
Originally posted by: ribbon13
Originally posted by: Tick
Originally posted by: DotheDamnTHing
why not make all pci express slots pci x16?
Click to expand...

Cost. Controller logic is expensive.
Click to expand...

No... thats an extra $15 per board to use multiple chipsets.

Putting enough silvered tracing on 8-layer PCB for that much bandwidth is insanely difficult. You'd need a 12x13" EATX SSI sized board to even consider it. And the development cost would skyrocket.

Originally posted by: Dark Cupcake
Pci express x1 has the same bandwidth as pci except that pci express is full duplex, so it can transmit and recieve data at the same time. So u can say that pci express x1 has double the bandwidths but its not really technicaly correct. Also when it comes to practical use the pci express interface should be a lot better as it doesnt have to share its connection with other devices.
Click to expand...


PCI 2.2 has 133MB/s bandwidth. x1 PCIe express has 250MB/s direction! It thats not roughly 2x as fast (potentially four times as fast) I dunno what is.


Also, Canopus Edius NX is a very expensive NLE system, but it only needs a x1 PCIe slot.
Click to expand...

$15 worth of extra logic is a lot for a mobo. Also, the tracing is possible, witness the Gigabyte Quad Royal, 4x PCI-e x16 slots.
 
Originally posted by: Tick
Originally posted by: ribbon13
Originally posted by: Tick
Originally posted by: DotheDamnTHing
why not make all pci express slots pci x16?
Click to expand...

Cost. Controller logic is expensive.
Click to expand...

No... thats an extra $15 per board to use multiple chipsets.

Putting enough silvered tracing on 8-layer PCB for that much bandwidth is insanely difficult. You'd need a 12x13" EATX SSI sized board to even consider it. And the development cost would skyrocket.

Originally posted by: Dark Cupcake
Pci express x1 has the same bandwidth as pci except that pci express is full duplex, so it can transmit and recieve data at the same time. So u can say that pci express x1 has double the bandwidths but its not really technicaly correct. Also when it comes to practical use the pci express interface should be a lot better as it doesnt have to share its connection with other devices.
Click to expand...


PCI 2.2 has 133MB/s bandwidth. x1 PCIe express has 250MB/s direction! It thats not roughly 2x as fast (potentially four times as fast) I dunno what is.


Also, Canopus Edius NX is a very expensive NLE system, but it only needs a x1 PCIe slot.
Click to expand...

$15 worth of extra logic is a lot for a mobo. Also, the tracing is possible, witness the Gigabyte Quad Royal, 4x PCI-e x16 slots.
Click to expand...

That motherboard also uses 2 chipsets.
 
Originally posted by: keeleysam
Originally posted by: Tick
Originally posted by: ribbon13
Originally posted by: Tick
Originally posted by: DotheDamnTHing
why not make all pci express slots pci x16?
Click to expand...

Cost. Controller logic is expensive.
Click to expand...

No... thats an extra $15 per board to use multiple chipsets.

Putting enough silvered tracing on 8-layer PCB for that much bandwidth is insanely difficult. You'd need a 12x13" EATX SSI sized board to even consider it. And the development cost would skyrocket.

Originally posted by: Dark Cupcake
Pci express x1 has the same bandwidth as pci except that pci express is full duplex, so it can transmit and recieve data at the same time. So u can say that pci express x1 has double the bandwidths but its not really technicaly correct. Also when it comes to practical use the pci express interface should be a lot better as it doesnt have to share its connection with other devices.
Click to expand...


PCI 2.2 has 133MB/s bandwidth. x1 PCIe express has 250MB/s direction! It thats not roughly 2x as fast (potentially four times as fast) I dunno what is.


Also, Canopus Edius NX is a very expensive NLE system, but it only needs a x1 PCIe slot.
Click to expand...

$15 worth of extra logic is a lot for a mobo. Also, the tracing is possible, witness the Gigabyte Quad Royal, 4x PCI-e x16 slots.
Click to expand...

That motherboard also uses 2 chipsets.
Click to expand...

That's true, but the routing is possible.
 
Originally posted by: Matthias99
Originally posted by: sygyzy
I noticed that aside from the PCI Express x16 ports used for (mostly) graphics cards, there are shorter ones like x1 and x4. Does anyone use these ports on their boards? And if so, for what?
Click to expand...

Searching -- at all -- might have revealed that you can get cards such as the following:

Gigabit Ethernet NICs
Fibre Channel cards
SATA drive/RAID controllers
Video capture cards
USB/Firewire cards

for PCIex1/x4 slots. Over the next few years, pretty much anything that uses PCI today will be switched over to PCIex1 instead, or possibly PCIex4 if it needs the extra bandwidth.

some examples
Click to expand...

LSI Logic and Adaptec make PCI-e x8 SCSI Controllers.
 
Originally posted by: Googer
LSI Logic and Adaptec make PCI-e x8 SCSI Controllers.
Click to expand...

And it's totally overkill interface. I'd imagine they are expecting x8 slots to be the common type of enterprise class hardware and are making the cards to be sturdy. It's certainly not because it's necessary.
 
Originally posted by: Buck Naked
Originally posted by: sygyzy
That's amazing they make graphics cards that are x1. They are the shortest ones right? The trend seems to be toward more and more connectors, not less.
Click to expand...

size doesnt matter 😉
I think PCI express x1 is almost double the bandwidth of PCI, but I could be wrong.
Click to expand...


Originally posted by: Buck Naked
Text
Click to expand...


That is not a video display card. It is a TV tuner.

All of the slots in the computer share the same 133 MB/s bandwith on the PCI bus. PCI-e x1, each slot gets dedicated bandwith that is about twice that of the whole PCI-legacy bus.

Matrox Makes several PCI-express x1 video cards.
http://www.matrox.com/mga/workstation/3dws/products/mill_gseries/g550_pcie.cfm

 
Originally posted by: ribbon13
Originally posted by: Googer
LSI Logic and Adaptec make PCI-e x8 SCSI Controllers.
Click to expand...

And it's totally overkill interface. I'd imagine they are expecting x8 slots to be the common type of enterprise class hardware and are making the cards to be sturdy. It's certainly not because it's necessary.
Click to expand...

But PCI and PCI-x are half duplex interfaces running scsi controllers that have a full duplex drive bus. PCI-e is a full duplex interface, so it is a natural choice.
 
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