What are ghosts? What are they made up of

[MobiusPizza]

Originally posted by: f95toli

Originally posted by: AnnihilatorX

Originally posted by: unipidity
Photons dont really have mass. Having just done an SR lecture course I can confidently say that no-one at all talks about relativistic mass anymore,but rather reaps the rewards of having a nice non-changing mass to go into invariants.

Anyway; such bollocks being posted in Highly Technical. Surely the random-crap board is a better place for something like this?

Photons do have mass when they travels. But when they are at rest they have zero mass (zero rest mass).

Otherwise solar sails won't work

No, photons carry MOMENTUM which is why solar sails work.
According to SR even massless particles carry momentum (in addition to m*v there is another term so even if m=0 the particle can still carry momentum)

Really? My highschool physics teacher had mislead me again!
lol... My ambition of a future career in Physics is gonna vanish


hm another term in the equation, interesting. Anyone measured the term yet?
Since mv is multiplication, that extra term must be addition.

 

[CalvinHobbs]

Originally posted by: PleasurePaulie64
If you believe in the Supernatual, Ghosts are Spirts just like God, and Satan is.

Controlling ghosts as you like to call it is just going into Satanic stuff, where warlords sumon spirts and so forth. Don't be arrogant to things like this because we are very hidden in our happy western societies. If you go and see witchdoctors and in africa etc, there is some weird stuff going on in this world! If you ever get into stuff like that, you will expose yourself to some weird stuff 🙂

Science cannot explain Supernatual things with a formula like other things, that's why it takes "faith" to believe in things like this. Science will never be able to explain wonders that are beyond our thinking. If you believe in evolution, how did the first particle get there to start it all off? If you believe in God, who made God? Is God excempt from our time frame? How did by sheer chance complexitites of the human body and life come to be?


And in regards to arrogance, I think some scientists are the most - not all. Simply because if you cannot prove it, it does not exist. Not always true my good friends..

yeps, some people believed the earth to be the center of the universe because back then it could not be proved otherwise, humans are a funny species if they can't see or do something then they think it's impossible, there are many things out there that science can't explain yet, there are things that happens in africa or asian countries that will bring some of you down your perches if you ever get to wintness them. how do you explain it when a complete stranger tell you things that only you know....open your mind as someone said science is about having an open mind.

 

[MobiusPizza]

Originally posted by: calvinHobbs
yeps, some people believed the earth to be the center of the universe because back then it could not be proved otherwise, humans are a funny species if they can't see or do something then they think it's impossible, there are many things out there that science can't explain yet, there are things that happens in africa or asian countries that will bring some of you down your perches if you ever get to wintness them. how do you explain it when a complete stranger tell you things that only you know....open your mind as someone said science is about having an open mind.

Well good point. But you have to note that even something happen in front of your eyes you can't be sure whether that's a real thing or is a "trick". Magic tricks are tricks yet can look so real. Even if the event did really happen, we might not be able to explain it yet with our current knowledge; or maybe our science models are inaccurate/wrong. Science is about explaining stuff. The unexplainables happen often; people just have to research and experiment to find out whether it is truth or trick. I agree with you that people should not disprove something that they can't prove. They just have to find out for themselves

 

[f95toli]

Originally posted by: AnnihilatorX

Originally posted by: f95toli

Originally posted by: AnnihilatorX

Originally posted by: unipidity
Photons dont really have mass. Having just done an SR lecture course I can confidently say that no-one at all talks about relativistic mass anymore,but rather reaps the rewards of having a nice non-changing mass to go into invariants.

Anyway; such bollocks being posted in Highly Technical. Surely the random-crap board is a better place for something like this?

Photons do have mass when they travels. But when they are at rest they have zero mass (zero rest mass).

Otherwise solar sails won't work

No, photons carry MOMENTUM which is why solar sails work.
According to SR even massless particles carry momentum (in addition to m*v there is another term so even if m=0 the particle can still carry momentum)

Really? My highschool physics teacher had mislead me again!
lol... My ambition of a future career in Physics is gonna vanish


hm another term in the equation, interesting. Anyone measured the term yet?
Since mv is multiplication, that extra term must be addition.

The simplest way to see this is to write down the equationfor the total energy (this is what is meant by the "second term", I was a bit unclear)

E^2=(p*c)^2+(m0*c^2)^2

so in the limit m0->0 we get E=p*c, hence p=E/c
The energy of a photon is equal to h*f (h is Planck's constant, f the frequency)

So finally we get

p=h*f/c

the higher the frequency the higher the momentumm e.g. ordinary light is better than microwaves if you want to use a solar sail.

 

[DrPizza]

1. The earth actually *is* the center of the known universe. Why? well, because we can see for 15 billion (or whatever it is) light years in each direction. (correct me if I'm wrong though, I very well may be on this)

2. As I said in my post, you're making a grave mistake when you attribute things that are not presently explained by science to the supernatural. You're doing this: "Explain this, Mr. Scientist", he answers "Wow, that's odd, I don't have an explanation for it." Then, apparently you're happy with saying "ahh ha! That's proof in the supernatural." 50 years later, scientists finally come to a complete understanding of what seemed bizarre a couple decades ago. But, then, the supernatural people find something new that isn't explained by science (and the key word that goes here is) YET.

 

[MobiusPizza]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
1. The earth actually *is* the center of the known universe. Why? well, because we can see for 15 billion (or whatever it is) light years in each direction. (correct me if I'm wrong though, I very well may be on this)

hm interesting. Heh but the numbers are so big that even if we aren't exactly the centre ( even off by few ten thousand light years off centre) we can still approximately say we are the centre

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: calvinHobbs

Originally posted by: PleasurePaulie64
If you believe in the Supernatual, Ghosts are Spirts just like God, and Satan is.

Controlling ghosts as you like to call it is just going into Satanic stuff, where warlords sumon spirts and so forth. Don't be arrogant to things like this because we are very hidden in our happy western societies. If you go and see witchdoctors and in africa etc, there is some weird stuff going on in this world! If you ever get into stuff like that, you will expose yourself to some weird stuff 🙂

Science cannot explain Supernatual things with a formula like other things, that's why it takes "faith" to believe in things like this. Science will never be able to explain wonders that are beyond our thinking. If you believe in evolution, how did the first particle get there to start it all off? If you believe in God, who made God? Is God excempt from our time frame? How did by sheer chance complexitites of the human body and life come to be?


And in regards to arrogance, I think some scientists are the most - not all. Simply because if you cannot prove it, it does not exist. Not always true my good friends..

yeps, some people believed the earth to be the center of the universe because back then it could not be proved otherwise, humans are a funny species if they can't see or do something then they think it's impossible, there are many things out there that science can't explain yet, there are things that happens in africa or asian countries that will bring some of you down your perches if you ever get to wintness them. how do you explain it when a complete stranger tell you things that only you know....open your mind as someone said science is about having an open mind.

I'll give you an answr to that when it actually happens.

 

[User1001]

Originally posted by: paadness
Ghosts exist and so don't reply if ur a non believer of ghosts.

They can pass through walls, control a human, do bad things and do good things too.

They can change thier looks into animals and humans yet we cannot see them or feel them.

Ghosts also have societies but where.

My house was infected by a ghost, totally harmless. Im sitting in the room and suddenly the fan goes off and i get up to see the button off. Lights in the far end of the house would go ON as soon as the sun starts to set. Then the most annoying thing was scratches on the roof of the car.

So what ghosts made up of. Are they only energy particles but they do have brain and can do wierd things. I can't help myself. Some magicians use thier help but how do u control ghosts.

Do not confuse Ghosts with human souls, they both are different.

How would science prove thier existance when u cannot see them or feel them or wiegh them. What elements make up ghosts??

Your case sounds more like a case of a poor electrical wiring job.

 

[Gibsons]

Originally posted by: User1001

Originally posted by: paadness
Ghosts exist and so don't reply if ur a non believer of ghosts.

They can pass through walls, control a human, do bad things and do good things too.

They can change thier looks into animals and humans yet we cannot see them or feel them.

Ghosts also have societies but where.

My house was infected by a ghost, totally harmless. Im sitting in the room and suddenly the fan goes off and i get up to see the button off. Lights in the far end of the house would go ON as soon as the sun starts to set. Then the most annoying thing was scratches on the roof of the car.

So what ghosts made up of. Are they only energy particles but they do have brain and can do wierd things. I can't help myself. Some magicians use thier help but how do u control ghosts.

Do not confuse Ghosts with human souls, they both are different.

How would science prove thier existance when u cannot see them or feel them or wiegh them. What elements make up ghosts??

Your case sounds more like a case of a poor electrical wiring job.

I thought electrical problems were caused by gremlins. How do I tell the difference between a gremlin and a ghost?

 

[pakigang]

If Scientist try experimenting with voodoo, occult, magic etc won't it bring 'Doom 3' on them 😛 😉

 

[Gibsons]

Originally posted by: pakigang
If Scientist try experimenting with voodoo, occult, magic etc won't it bring 'Doom 3' on them 😛 😉

The experiments have largely been done. The results wouldn't make a good sci-fi movie.

 

[Vegitto]

Originally posted by: RampantAndroid
Firstly, by your first stipulation, don't answer if you don't believe, makes this arguement moot.

Now, with that in mind: everything in this universe holds mass. A single proton has mass. Light has mass (hence, concentrated laser beams do exert a force, however minute)

Therefore, by this current line of thought (and fact) a ghost must have mass. Now, there is no way for a solid object to pass through another, for it to move through it without either being affected.

Thus, by your definition of a ghost, it cannot exist, save the supernatural, be it some diety or not. If you believe in God, heaven and hell, you can explain this. If there is a heaven and hell (and they arent in the clouds) they have no physical status, and since that exist, I suppose ghosts could too...but there is no way to do it by science. By what we know today (albiet we don't have such a great grasp on how the universe works) ghosts cannot be justified by science.

Almost the same as the question: quantify what composes our soul.

And this is where 'laws' of science apply. You see, these 'laws' are merely valid until they are proven wrong. So, in my oppinion, you can't trust them with things considered 'supernatural'.

 

[Gibsons]

Originally posted by: Vegitto

Originally posted by: RampantAndroid
Firstly, by your first stipulation, don't answer if you don't believe, makes this arguement moot.

Now, with that in mind: everything in this universe holds mass. A single proton has mass. Light has mass (hence, concentrated laser beams do exert a force, however minute)

Therefore, by this current line of thought (and fact) a ghost must have mass. Now, there is no way for a solid object to pass through another, for it to move through it without either being affected.

Thus, by your definition of a ghost, it cannot exist, save the supernatural, be it some diety or not. If you believe in God, heaven and hell, you can explain this. If there is a heaven and hell (and they arent in the clouds) they have no physical status, and since that exist, I suppose ghosts could too...but there is no way to do it by science. By what we know today (albiet we don't have such a great grasp on how the universe works) ghosts cannot be justified by science.

Almost the same as the question: quantify what composes our soul.

And this is where 'laws' of science apply. You see, these 'laws' are merely valid until they are proven wrong. So, in my oppinion, you can't trust them with things considered 'supernatural'.

so, whenever someone says "I saw a ghost" we just throw away physics and chemistry?

 

[paadness]

Do ghosts have enough $$$ to buy an SLI G70??

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: paadness
How would science prove thier existance when u cannot see them or feel them or wiegh them. What elements make up ghosts??

An imbalance of dopamine in the brain.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: Gibsons

Originally posted by: Vegitto

Originally posted by: RampantAndroid
Firstly, by your first stipulation, don't answer if you don't believe, makes this arguement moot.

Now, with that in mind: everything in this universe holds mass. A single proton has mass. Light has mass (hence, concentrated laser beams do exert a force, however minute)

Therefore, by this current line of thought (and fact) a ghost must have mass. Now, there is no way for a solid object to pass through another, for it to move through it without either being affected.

Thus, by your definition of a ghost, it cannot exist, save the supernatural, be it some diety or not. If you believe in God, heaven and hell, you can explain this. If there is a heaven and hell (and they arent in the clouds) they have no physical status, and since that exist, I suppose ghosts could too...but there is no way to do it by science. By what we know today (albiet we don't have such a great grasp on how the universe works) ghosts cannot be justified by science.

Almost the same as the question: quantify what composes our soul.

And this is where 'laws' of science apply. You see, these 'laws' are merely valid until they are proven wrong. So, in my oppinion, you can't trust them with things considered 'supernatural'.

so, whenever someone says "I saw a ghost" we just throw away physics and chemistry?

do you rely on them to explain everything? neither science is exact and has tons of room for error/variation. "believeing" in science for answers to most things is ignorant.

 

[Vegitto]

I can't really explain why, but the 'laws' of physics are not really laws, and only apply until proven wrong. This, however, does NOT mean that ghost-sightings can't be logically explained.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Originally posted by: f95toli
No, photons carry MOMENTUM which is why solar sails work.
According to SR even massless particles carry momentum (in addition to m*v there is another term so even if m=0 the particle can still carry momentum)

Um, even if there is another term in P=m*v, the m stil equals zero, and thus p=0. I don't know about this term, perhaps I'll encounter it in physics 3 the semester.

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: RampantAndroid
Firstly, by your first stipulation, don't answer if you don't believe, makes this arguement moot.

Now, with that in mind: everything in this universe holds mass. A single proton has mass. Light has mass (hence, concentrated laser beams do exert a force, however minute)

Therefore, by this current line of thought (and fact) a ghost must have mass. Now, there is no way for a solid object to pass through another, for it to move through it without either being affected.

Thus, by your definition of a ghost, it cannot exist, save the supernatural, be it some diety or not. If you believe in God, heaven and hell, you can explain this. If there is a heaven and hell (and they arent in the clouds) they have no physical status, and since that exist, I suppose ghosts could too...but there is no way to do it by science. By what we know today (albiet we don't have such a great grasp on how the universe works) ghosts cannot be justified by science.

Almost the same as the question: quantify what composes our soul.

Science as we know it can always be redefined, and it IS possible to make matter go through seemingly solid objects. It's just very hard to do 😉

 

[RampantAndroid]

Ummm, well, I know of no way to do that, since we don't live in a star trek universe.

If it is so possible, please do feel free to elaborate.

 

[Gibsons]

Originally posted by: Bigsm00th

Originally posted by: Gibsons

Originally posted by: Vegitto

Originally posted by: RampantAndroid
Firstly, by your first stipulation, don't answer if you don't believe, makes this arguement moot.

Now, with that in mind: everything in this universe holds mass. A single proton has mass. Light has mass (hence, concentrated laser beams do exert a force, however minute)

Therefore, by this current line of thought (and fact) a ghost must have mass. Now, there is no way for a solid object to pass through another, for it to move through it without either being affected.

Thus, by your definition of a ghost, it cannot exist, save the supernatural, be it some diety or not. If you believe in God, heaven and hell, you can explain this. If there is a heaven and hell (and they arent in the clouds) they have no physical status, and since that exist, I suppose ghosts could too...but there is no way to do it by science. By what we know today (albiet we don't have such a great grasp on how the universe works) ghosts cannot be justified by science.

Almost the same as the question: quantify what composes our soul.

And this is where 'laws' of science apply. You see, these 'laws' are merely valid until they are proven wrong. So, in my oppinion, you can't trust them with things considered 'supernatural'.

so, whenever someone says "I saw a ghost" we just throw away physics and chemistry?

do you rely on them to explain everything? neither science is exact and has tons of room for error/variation. "believeing" in science for answers to most things is ignorant.

Let's just say I've found thermodynamics to be far more reliable than any supposed supernatural phenomena.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Haha, luckily I don't have to take thermodynamics to get my computer & electrical engineering degrees, but yes, thermodynamis is a proven science, and you don't need to say it is something "supernatural" to explain it.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: Gibsons

Let's just say I've found thermodynamics to be far more reliable than any supposed supernatural phenomena.

i can agree to that, but by limiting yourself to only see things as they fit into physics and chemistry is really limiting the scope of your observation. it isnt an impossibility that things exist which can not be explained with either of those two fields of science (yet), so denying their existance would inhibit us from learning/discovering it.

 

[f95toli]

Originally posted by: RampantAndroid

Originally posted by: f95toli
No, photons carry MOMENTUM which is why solar sails work.
According to SR even massless particles carry momentum (in addition to m*v there is another term so even if m=0 the particle can still carry momentum)

Um, even if there is another term in P=m*v, the m stil equals zero, and thus p=0. I don't know about this term, perhaps I'll encounter it in physics 3 the semester.

Read my other post and you'll see what I mean.
The classical experssion for the total energy of a free particle is E=p^2/(2*m); the relativistic version of this expression also contains the term p*c, which means that a particle with an energy E carries at least the momentum p=E/c regardless if it is massless or not.

 

[unipidity]

ie relativistic momentum.

Lots of modern popular science books and older textbooks use relativistic mass to explain phenomena. And I dont know of any case in which the relativistic mass case breaks down or anything like that, but current methodology does not include it. Its a conceptual tool that can be useful at a certain level, but gets goddamn annoying otherwise. As soon as you introduce a 4-vector approach it becomes unnecessary.


Also; every person is the centre of thier own universe, surely? Every point has its own visible universe, defined by the boundry at which hubble expansion = c? No?