What are christian values?

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Morality to me is about social justice and fairness. Are people being singled out for harsh treatment, or is everyone equal before the law?

The persecution of gays is one of the glaring injustices in contemporary society.

The treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay is another egregious injustice that readily comes to mind.

The way the death of almost 100,000 Iraqi civilians has been all but glossed over in the MSM is also deeply immoral (are there deaths any less worthy of mentioning because they are Iraqi not British or American?)

Other major examples of social injustice include citizens' unequal access to education and health care.

I think the challenge of being a moral society involves seeking fairness and equal treatment for all citizens (in the context of a liberal-democratic capitalist society).

You'd think the Church would be an important moral voice in society, but it seems that the various christian churches are mostly obsessed with sex and what others are doing in the privacy of their bedrooms.

According to mainstream conservative christian/ Republican ideology, morality in public policy involves barring gays from marriage, securing enormous tax cuts for the wealthy, and preventing women from having abortions.

How did Jesus' message become so twisted in the hands of these people?



Interesting article on the struggle to define Christian values.

Losing Their Religion

"Jim Wallis has a radical religious proposition: if Jesus were setting American priorities, the first two would not be tax cuts for the rich or the occupation of Iraq.

This might come as a surprise to America's religious right, who solidly endorsed both policies, along with most of the Republicans' platform. But plenty of people are listening, among them British Prime Minister Tony Blair, heir apparent Gordon Brown, and probable US presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, all advised by the dapper American reverend.

Jim Wallis is the evangelical Christian who has loosened the stranglehold of the religious right on American politics. He did it by asking loudly and often: how did Jesus become pro-rich, pro-war and pro- America alone?

These questions resonate with a much wider audience than just Christians, including all those who resent the way the right - religious and political - managed to hijack faith and reduce it to a couple of narrow issues...

According to Wallis, moral or religious issues for Christians go far beyond abortion and gay marriage ? the only topics the religious right allowed under that rubric at the 2004 US election. The environment (caring for God's earth) is a religious issue, so is war (Christians are called to be peacemakers), truth-telling, human rights (people are made in the "image of God") and, above all, poverty.

The Bible has several thousand verses on poverty. Clearly, it matters to God, and much more than some issues that the religious right prefers to talk about.

 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,794
6,352
126
The guy is correct. Christians have fallen for an Apostate view of what Christianity is all about.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: aidanjm
According to mainstream conservative christian/ Republican ideology, morality in public policy involves barring gays from marriage, securing enormous tax cuts for the wealthy, and preventing women from having abortions.

How did Jesus' message become so twisted in the hands of these people?
Amen

How did it happen?

Greed that comes in the form of power and numbers in the discrimination and persecution of others that don't fit in their club.

The ultimate sin.

It will be interesting to see if even Jesus can forgive them.

Oh the irony :D
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,216
1
61
Originally posted by: aidanjm


You'd think the Church would be an important moral voice in society, but it seems that the various christian churches are mostly obsessed with sex and what others are doing in the privacy of their bedrooms.

According to mainstream conservative christian/ Republican ideology, morality in public policy involves barring gays from marriage, securing enormous tax cuts for the wealthy, and preventing women from having abortions.

How did Jesus' message become so twisted in the hands of these people?


Once again someone tries to lump conservatives and christians into one homogeneous mass. It doesn't work like that.

In general, christians are going to be against gay marriage and abortion. But on the tolerance scale the are certainly more accepting than say the muslims in the ME who see fit to hang gays.

Tax cuts for the rich would hardly be a topic you'll hear in a Sunday sermon. I also doubt that you'd hear a preacher stumping for the invasion of Iraq or tapping overseas phone calls. I suppose I should also point out that many people of faith lean to the LEFT and vote DEMOCRAT. *shock*

So if you please... stop trying to tie different ideological groups of people into one giant lump to promote your agenda. It doesn't work. There are only two party choices to make when it comes to election time. Like most of us, christians have to line up the issues that are important to them and decide which party comes closer to their views of the traditional family and protecting innocent life. Obviously that is the Republicans.

But voting for those issues is not an approval of Iraq, tapped phone calls, tax cuts or anything else the R's are doing.


 

EatSpam

Diamond Member
May 1, 2005
6,423
0
0
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: aidanjm


You'd think the Church would be an important moral voice in society, but it seems that the various christian churches are mostly obsessed with sex and what others are doing in the privacy of their bedrooms.

According to mainstream conservative christian/ Republican ideology, morality in public policy involves barring gays from marriage, securing enormous tax cuts for the wealthy, and preventing women from having abortions.

How did Jesus' message become so twisted in the hands of these people?


Once again someone tries to lump conservatives and christians into one homogeneous mass. It doesn't work like that.

In general, christians are going to be against gay marriage and abortion. But on the tolerance scale the are certainly more accepting than say the muslims in the ME who see fit to hang gays.

Tax cuts for the rich would hardly be a topic you'll hear in a Sunday sermon. I also doubt that you'd hear a preacher stumping for the invasion of Iraq or tapping overseas phone calls. I suppose I should also point out that many people of faith lean to the LEFT and vote DEMOCRAT. *shock*

So if you please... stop trying to tie different ideological groups of people into one giant lump to promote your agenda. It doesn't work.

Gotcha.

Christians worship Jesus.

Conservatives worship the wealthy.
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: aidanjm


You'd think the Church would be an important moral voice in society, but it seems that the various christian churches are mostly obsessed with sex and what others are doing in the privacy of their bedrooms.

According to mainstream conservative christian/ Republican ideology, morality in public policy involves barring gays from marriage, securing enormous tax cuts for the wealthy, and preventing women from having abortions.

How did Jesus' message become so twisted in the hands of these people?


Once again someone tries to lump conservatives and christians into one homogeneous mass. It doesn't work like that.

In general, christians are going to be against gay marriage and abortion. But on the tolerance scale the are certainly more accepting than say the muslims in the ME who see fit to hang gays.

Tax cuts for the rich would hardly be a topic you'll hear in a Sunday sermon. I also doubt that you'd hear a preacher stumping for the invasion of Iraq or tapping overseas phone calls. I suppose I should also point out that many people of faith lean to the LEFT and vote DEMOCRAT. *shock*

So if you please... stop trying to tie different ideological groups of people into one giant lump to promote your agenda. It doesn't work.

Gotcha.

Christians worship Jesus.

Conservatives worship the wealthy.

And liberals worship the lazy.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Morality to me is about social justice and fairness. Are people being singled out for harsh treatment, or is everyone equal before the law?
The law is defined by those in the legislatures, those in the court rooms, and midly by those on the streets. No two people will be equal before it.

The persecution of gays is one of the glaring injustices in contemporary society.

The treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay is another egregious injustice that readily comes to mind.

The way the death of almost 100,000 Iraqi civilians has been all but glossed over in the MSM is also deeply immoral (are there deaths any less worthy of mentioning because they are Iraqi not British or American?)
We do not wholly know ourselves. We are taught to shut down our true perceptions, and not advance our minds. This repression shows itself in many disgusting ways, and seems to lead to people wanting control of others.

However, being taught to us from such a young age, we do not remember how not to be this way, even if we remember what it is like not to be this way. Making this realization, and attempting to deal with it, also throws up irrational fears and uncomfortable situations that are difficult to grapple with. Hate to Moonbeam ya (Moonbeam would be a lot nicer about it, though), but we have a hate and fear of ourselves and project it to others.

Other major examples of social injustice include citizens' unequal access to education and health care.
Health care I'll go with. We do, just so you know, have equal rights to education. However, as my previous point, we are taught education = schooling, rather than education = learning. Hightened credentialism isn't helping.

I think the challenge of being a moral society involves seeking fairness and equal treatment for all citizens (in the context of a liberal-democratic capitalist society).

You'd think the Church would be an important moral voice in society, but it seems that the various christian churches are mostly obsessed with sex and what others are doing in the privacy of their bedrooms.
The Church, and all of its spin-offs, exist for control. Paul created a political entity. Notice the other gospels we've found, that didn't make it to the Christain Bible, or have been unveiled more recently, fit much more into Satanism than they do mainstream Christianity. When not that, bits of Taoism and Bhuddism (or possibly their offshoots and/or predecessors?) show up. Even the canon Bible(s) have bits of this, if you look.

According to mainstream conservative christian/ Republican ideology, morality in public policy involves barring gays from marriage, securing enormous tax cuts for the wealthy, and preventing women from having abortions.
Unpredicatbility is bad. Dissent is bad. A diverse culture is bad.

Deep down, each one of them knows we need fewer kids on the planet.
Deep down, they know we need to make less crap, and put less crap into our planet.
Deep down, each one of them has thoughts that they claim to be perverted, because there is still a drive, being pushed down, to explore the nature of one's self and others.
Deep down, each one knows the gay men and women they rail against, as a part of themselves.
On the surface, exercising power over others, they are distracted from that, and get a hollow sense of accomplishment.

How did Jesus' message become so twisted in the hands of these people?
Paul was abducted by aliens, or on some good drugs, and...yeah, it went downhill from there.

Interesting article on the struggle to define Christian values.

Losing Their Religion
Every religion has truths within it. Every Prophet saw a part of this truth, and made it conform to his or her knowledge of the world. Every major religious leader has polluted and perverted these truths, because every Truth threatens centralized power over other people.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: ntdz


And liberals worship the lazy.

That's funny, who here ever defends lazy people on welfare?

People don't, whearas you all defend the corrupt rich endlessly.

Taking the conservative view IS the lazy way, you all have the media mainly locked down, talk radio, and your politicians are in power.

Those who side with the corrupt majority are not brave in any way, you are just another little cog, and you could dissapear into the machine and never be missed.

Don't forget that.

This is a left-wing political demonstration

This is a right-wing political demonstration

This is how liberals and christ following christians solve problems

This is how conservatives and fundamentalists solve problems
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,216
1
61
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: ntdz


And liberals worship the lazy.

That's funny, who here ever defends lazy people on welfare?

People don't, whearas you all defend the corrupt rich endlessly.

Taking the conservative view IS the lazy way, you all have the media mainly locked down, talk radio, and your politicians are in power.

Those who side with the corrupt majority are not brave in any way, you are just another little cog, and you could dissapear into the machine and never be missed.

Don't forget that.

This is a left-wing political demonstration

This is a right-wing political demonstration

This is how liberals and christ following christians solve problems

This is how conservatives and fundamentalists solve problems

Wow... Exaggerate much? You need help.
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: ntdz


And liberals worship the lazy.

That's funny, who here ever defends lazy people on welfare?

People don't, whearas you all defend the corrupt rich endlessly.

Taking the conservative view IS the lazy way, you all have the media mainly locked down, talk radio, and your politicians are in power.

Those who side with the corrupt majority are not brave in any way, you are just another little cog, and you could dissapear into the machine and never be missed.

Don't forget that.

This is a left-wing political demonstration

This is a right-wing political demonstration

This is how liberals and christ following christians solve problems

This is how conservatives and fundamentalists solve problems

Ever heard of a guy named Stalin? Didn't think so. He doesn't fit your little description.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: Steeplerot


Ever heard of a guy named Stalin? Didn't think so. He doesn't fit your little description.


Stalin was a totalitarian authoritarian, just becasue he was not a christian it is still another shade of the same crap, Once again it was the leftys of russia -the teachers, the artists, the musicians that protested against the dictatorship for freedom.
 

smack Down

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2005
4,507
0
0
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: aidanjm


You'd think the Church would be an important moral voice in society, but it seems that the various christian churches are mostly obsessed with sex and what others are doing in the privacy of their bedrooms.

According to mainstream conservative christian/ Republican ideology, morality in public policy involves barring gays from marriage, securing enormous tax cuts for the wealthy, and preventing women from having abortions.

How did Jesus' message become so twisted in the hands of these people?


Once again someone tries to lump conservatives and christians into one homogeneous mass. It doesn't work like that.

In general, christians are going to be against gay marriage and abortion. But on the tolerance scale the are certainly more accepting than say the muslims in the ME who see fit to hang gays.

Tax cuts for the rich would hardly be a topic you'll hear in a Sunday sermon. I also doubt that you'd hear a preacher stumping for the invasion of Iraq or tapping overseas phone calls. I suppose I should also point out that many people of faith lean to the LEFT and vote DEMOCRAT. *shock*

So if you please... stop trying to tie different ideological groups of people into one giant lump to promote your agenda. It doesn't work. There are only two party choices to make when it comes to election time. Like most of us, christians have to line up the issues that are important to them and decide which party comes closer to their views of the traditional family and protecting innocent life. Obviously that is the Republicans.

But voting for those issues is not an approval of Iraq, tapped phone calls, tax cuts or anything else the R's are doing.

So is that the christians new position on Gays? At least we don't hang you.
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,216
1
61
Originally posted by: smack Down
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: aidanjm


You'd think the Church would be an important moral voice in society, but it seems that the various christian churches are mostly obsessed with sex and what others are doing in the privacy of their bedrooms.

According to mainstream conservative christian/ Republican ideology, morality in public policy involves barring gays from marriage, securing enormous tax cuts for the wealthy, and preventing women from having abortions.

How did Jesus' message become so twisted in the hands of these people?


Once again someone tries to lump conservatives and christians into one homogeneous mass. It doesn't work like that.

In general, christians are going to be against gay marriage and abortion. But on the tolerance scale the are certainly more accepting than say the muslims in the ME who see fit to hang gays.

Tax cuts for the rich would hardly be a topic you'll hear in a Sunday sermon. I also doubt that you'd hear a preacher stumping for the invasion of Iraq or tapping overseas phone calls. I suppose I should also point out that many people of faith lean to the LEFT and vote DEMOCRAT. *shock*

So if you please... stop trying to tie different ideological groups of people into one giant lump to promote your agenda. It doesn't work. There are only two party choices to make when it comes to election time. Like most of us, christians have to line up the issues that are important to them and decide which party comes closer to their views of the traditional family and protecting innocent life. Obviously that is the Republicans.

But voting for those issues is not an approval of Iraq, tapped phone calls, tax cuts or anything else the R's are doing.

So is that the christians new position on Gays? At least we don't hang you.

Where did I say that? Context my freind... Context. OP is whining about the christian view toward gays. I was just pointing out that being gay in america, even with RRR fundies, is still better than being gay in a lot of other places.

 

smack Down

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2005
4,507
0
0
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: smack Down
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: aidanjm


You'd think the Church would be an important moral voice in society, but it seems that the various christian churches are mostly obsessed with sex and what others are doing in the privacy of their bedrooms.

According to mainstream conservative christian/ Republican ideology, morality in public policy involves barring gays from marriage, securing enormous tax cuts for the wealthy, and preventing women from having abortions.

How did Jesus' message become so twisted in the hands of these people?


Once again someone tries to lump conservatives and christians into one homogeneous mass. It doesn't work like that.

In general, christians are going to be against gay marriage and abortion. But on the tolerance scale the are certainly more accepting than say the muslims in the ME who see fit to hang gays.

Tax cuts for the rich would hardly be a topic you'll hear in a Sunday sermon. I also doubt that you'd hear a preacher stumping for the invasion of Iraq or tapping overseas phone calls. I suppose I should also point out that many people of faith lean to the LEFT and vote DEMOCRAT. *shock*

So if you please... stop trying to tie different ideological groups of people into one giant lump to promote your agenda. It doesn't work. There are only two party choices to make when it comes to election time. Like most of us, christians have to line up the issues that are important to them and decide which party comes closer to their views of the traditional family and protecting innocent life. Obviously that is the Republicans.

But voting for those issues is not an approval of Iraq, tapped phone calls, tax cuts or anything else the R's are doing.

So is that the christians new position on Gays? At least we don't hang you.

Where did I say that? Context my freind... Context. OP is whining about the christian view toward gays. I was just pointing out that being gay in america, even with RRR fundies, is still better than being gay in a lot of other places.

Umm isn't that the same as saying at least we don't hang you.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,256
136
I was talking to my future mother-in-law today and she was telling that she doesn't vote based on someone's policies, but votes solely based upon "character" and who she thinks would take advice from god... Needless to say, she still think Bush is a wonderful president, because he claims to have christain morals and hates abortion. I just can't understand that kind of thinking at all. Thank god my girl friend doesn't think like that.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
Personally I find the Christian way of life quite righteous and respectable; almost all religions for that matter. The big issue I have with Christians is when they force their values on the entire population. Religion is becoming more political and less grass-roots (ie. helping others, showing love/affection), but do not bash the entire demographic for these minor flaws. Some Christian values may have their problems...but so does the secular world.

Your attacks on Christians do more harm than good aidanjm.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
What are present day Christian values? Hypocrisy X 10, don't ya know, 'cause we're RIGHT even when we're WRONG. Just 'cause we believe the RIGHT WAY! WHHAAAAAH! JESUS, PLEASE NO SPANKY ME!


Can anyone take seriously people who need the Holy laws and fear of the Mighty Wrath of GOD to keep from robbing, raping,and murdering their fellow human beings?
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: Stunt
Your attacks on Christians do more harm than good aidanjm.

There are no attacks on christians here. I am simply pointing out that the emperor has no clothes. i.e., what the religious right is peddling is not even remotely related to the teachings of Christ. I am also explicating my own view of morality, which is that the chief component of morality is social justice and fairness (as opposed to controlling the sexual lives of other people).
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: Stunt
Your attacks on Christians do more harm than good aidanjm.
There are no attacks on christians here. I am simply pointing out that the emperor has no clothes. i.e., what the religious right is peddling is not even remotely related to the teachings of Christ. I am also explicating my own view of morality, which is that the chief component of morality is social justice and fairness (as opposed to controlling the sexual lives of other people).
All you see is the politics of special interests and a media who thrives on confrontation and debate. What the church is "peddling" has very little to do with homosexuals but all of the good things Christ valued. If you disagree with this, I doubt you've been to a church in a while; don't get me wrong, I haven't either...but my friends do and they spend absolutely none of their time discussing abortion, gays (as much as you wish they were).

It would be like me saying homosexuals are always as flamboyant and raunchy as we see on TV and in parades. It's an argument based on the less realistic and small minority.
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: Stunt
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: Stunt
Your attacks on Christians do more harm than good aidanjm.
There are no attacks on christians here. I am simply pointing out that the emperor has no clothes. i.e., what the religious right is peddling is not even remotely related to the teachings of Christ. I am also explicating my own view of morality, which is that the chief component of morality is social justice and fairness (as opposed to controlling the sexual lives of other people).
All you see is the politics of special interests and a media who thrives on confrontation and debate.

What I see is the religious right working long and hard on just a few issues - opposing gay marriage, opposing abortion, etc. I see the religious right working thru the political process to deprive gays, women of the most basic or fundamental of rights.

Originally posted by: Stunt
What the church is "peddling" has very little to do with homosexuals but all of the good things Christ valued.

What church are you referring to? the catholic church? the current pope is unhinged, he is literally *obsessed* with gays, most of what he has to say is riddled with hatred and bigotry.

Originally posted by: Stunt
If you disagree with this, I doubt you've been to a church in a while; don't get me wrong, I haven't either...but my friends do and they spend absolutely none of their time discussing abortion, gays (as much as you wish they were).

If that is the case, then shame on them, for allowing the vocal religious right to speak for all christians. Their silence on these issues is simply shameful, and deeply un-christian.

Originally posted by: Stunt
It would be like me saying homosexuals are always as flamboyant and raunchy as we see on TV and in parades. It's an argument based on the less realistic and small minority.

Actually my comments referred to various christian churches and mainstream conservative christian/ Republican ideology. I made no comment on individual christians. you need to read posts more carefully. Re: your analogy above, it is not apt, an apt analogy would be something like "gay rights groups are determined to undermine traditional marriage".
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,999
307
126
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: Stunt
Your attacks on Christians do more harm than good aidanjm.

There are no attacks on christians here. I am simply pointing out that the emperor has no clothes. i.e., what the religious right is peddling is not even remotely related to the teachings of Christ. I am also explicating my own view of morality, which is that the chief component of morality is social justice and fairness (as opposed to controlling the sexual lives of other people).

I can say I appreciate the lack of Christianity degradation going on in the thread.

I think many will agree your points are valid as far as the questioning of using the themes of Jesus to push political ideology. It creeps the hell out of me whenever I hear how someone is from the far right. Jesus had more in common with the left than right.

 

Malfeas

Senior member
Apr 27, 2005
829
0
76
I believe christain values can be summarized as follows:

1. Crush your enemies.

2. See them driven before you.

3. Hear the lamentations of the women.






Or, maybe that was Conan who said that. Meh, still works.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
The very starting post on this article, supposedly about christian values goes right to a Pro Gay Stance. If you want to write an article with a pro-gay message, put that in the title.