"...what about my constitutional rights?"..."not at this point ... you don't have any'

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: irwincur
Well, until the liberals let police agencies profile likely suspects this will be the case. It is not the fault of normal people or the police agencies of the nation. This is clealry the fault of groups like the ACLU crying every time the very mention of profiling is raised.


Without profiling likely suspects, grandmas will be tossed in jail - because everyone must be treated equally no matter how stupid it seems.


So thank you left. It is not a flaw in the law, it is a flaw in the prosecution of the law. I suspect that the ACLU is more than likely extremely happy as they now have a new client - one that they helped to make. They are in a win, win situation - they get to defend real terrorists who have been unfairly profiled as well as those that are the victims of a lack of profiling.

This is an idiotic line of thinking, because then they would just start dressing up as old ladies, or even using old ladies. You can defend the german border all you want, but that doesn't mean they can't still come through belgium.

 

[StageLeft]

Other than the statement of an ill-informed employee, I don't see what the big deal is. She tried to carry a fairly large knife on to a plane. They didn't kill her, just record this.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Achtung
And while we all focus on keeping butter knives off the airplanes in an effort to prevent another airplane from being flown into a skyscraper, the terrorists probably continue to target at least one of several hundred other methods for using our own institutions against us.

I've said it before and I'll say it again--it wasn't the airplanes per se that they used against us, it was the element of surprise. It's unlikely they will ever go the airplane hijacking route again, with so many other ways to potentially launch attacks against us. And yet our government proceeds to narrowmindedly turn the airports into virtual prisons while ignoring so many other potential methods of attack.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Other than the statement of an ill-informed employee, I don't see what the big deal is. She tried to carry a fairly large knife on to a plane. They didn't kill her, just record this.

She made a mistake, no doubt, but the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

 

[Fern]

This reminds me of why I prefer to drive.

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Other than the statement of an ill-informed employee, I don't see what the big deal is. She tried to carry a fairly large knife on to a plane. They didn't kill her, just record this.

They did a lot more than just record it. They put her on a terrorist watch list! They are potentially going to fine her and charge her with a felony. Being on a terrorist watch list because of an honest mistake is not something somebody should have to have following them around for the rest of their life. God I swear I'm just not going to do anything any more. I feel like locking myself in my basement and putting on a tinfoil hat. Seems like anything I do against the law whether it be by accident or not could get me labeled a terrorist. What? You jaywalked?! Where were you going? Why were you carrying that swiss army knife on your keychain and why were you jaywalking with it? You must have been going somewhere in a hurry if you were jaywalking with a swiss army knife. What are you planning? Don't want to tell us, maybe our friends in Guantanamo can get it out of you. . .

I just pray it doesn't actually come to fruition and cooler heads prevail in this womans case. Otherwise, Canada is looking better all the time. But they probably don't want us either.

 

[Achtung]

Originally posted by: ahurtt

They did a lot more than just record it. They put her on a terrorist watch list! They are potentially going to fine her and charge her with a felony. Being on a terrorist watch list because of an honest mistake is not something somebody should have to have following them around for the rest of their life.

That's what is so bizarre about this story. People likely do this sort of thing all the time, but if something like that is enough to get you onto a terrorist list, that list is going to get pretty huge very quickly.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Other than the statement of an ill-informed employee, I don't see what the big deal is. She tried to carry a fairly large knife on to a plane. They didn't kill her, just record this.

Fairly large? It's a 5 1/2" kitchen knife with a rounded edge! Go grab a knife from your kitchen drawer that you use to spread mayo or jelly with. It's half handle. A fork would be more deadly.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Achtung

Originally posted by: ahurtt

They did a lot more than just record it. They put her on a terrorist watch list! They are potentially going to fine her and charge her with a felony. Being on a terrorist watch list because of an honest mistake is not something somebody should have to have following them around for the rest of their life.

That's what is so bizarre about this story.

People likely do this sort of thing all the time, but if something like that is enough to get you onto a terrorist list, that list is going to get pretty huge very quickly.

 

[dahunan]

This is the fault of too many idiots being hired for this low paying job and of course this miserable "black or white" adminstration

 

[dornick]

Originally posted by: Achtung
And while we all focus on keeping butter knives off the airplanes in an effort to prevent another airplane from being flown into a skyscraper, the terrorists probably continue to target at least one of several hundred other methods for using our own institutions against us.

I've said it before and I'll say it again--it wasn't the airplanes per se that they used against us, it was the element of surprise. It's unlikely they will ever go the airplane hijacking route again, with so many other ways to potentially launch attacks against us. And yet our government proceeds to narrowmindedly turn the airports into virtual prisons while ignoring so many other potential methods of attack.

I agree completely. The terrorists must be laughing their heads off when something like this happens. They know it does us absolutely no good because they aren't planning on taking over planes any time soon.

In fact, I don't think a terrorist would even be able to hijack a plane now, provided they didn't get something like guns on the plane. I mean, 9/11 got pulled off because until that point, plane hijackings meant taking control and holding the passengers hostage for some finacial or political gain. Nobody ever expected they would purposely crash, killing everybody on board. If something like that happened again, the passengers could and would try to regain control of the plane. They put up a fight on the Pennsylvania jet, and probably made the terrorists ditch.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: dornick

Originally posted by: Achtung
And while we all focus on keeping butter knives off the airplanes in an effort to prevent another airplane from being flown into a skyscraper, the terrorists probably continue to target at least one of several hundred other methods for using our own institutions against us.

I've said it before and I'll say it again--it wasn't the airplanes per se that they used against us, it was the element of surprise. It's unlikely they will ever go the airplane hijacking route again, with so many other ways to potentially launch attacks against us. And yet our government proceeds to narrowmindedly turn the airports into virtual prisons while ignoring so many other potential methods of attack.

I agree completely. The terrorists must be laughing their heads off when something like this happens. They know it does us absolutely no good because they aren't planning on taking over planes any time soon.

In fact, I don't think a terrorist would even be able to hijack a plane now, provided they didn't get something like guns on the plane. I mean, 9/11 got pulled off because until that point, plane hijackings meant taking control and holding the passengers hostage for some finacial or political gain. Nobody ever expected they would purposely crash, killing everybody on board. If something like that happened again, the passengers could and would try to regain control of the plane. They put up a fight on the Pennsylvania jet, and probably made the terrorists ditch.

No doubt about it. They knew what was coming and did their best to fight for their lives. If they want to pull that trick again, they will need to incompacitate everyone somehow. It will more likely happen with a private jet then a commercial jet.

However, that is no excuse not to grab as many rights away from the average joe in the name of national security when we have the chance. De law is de law.

 

[DanceMan]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
[...
People likely do this sort of thing all the time, but if something like that is enough to get you onto a terrorist list, that list is going to get pretty huge very quickly.

[/quote]

Actually, it's pretty easy to be on the 'no-fly' list. Apparently, somebody with my name is on it, and I have to get checked *every* time I fly. It usually results in the gate agents having to call up the TSA, and they then use your birthday to try to determine if you are really the person or not. Dosen't sound like much of a hassle -- until you get a busy period like on Memorial Day, which then backed up the TSA security call-in number, and it caused me to miss a flight because of this delay. It was the last flight out that day from that airport, but I could take a cab over to another airport (no extra charge for the plane ticket), but the cab cost me $30.00 out of my pocket (it was the fastest way to get there). Thanks TSA!

There is going to be a requirement coming soon to provide your birthdate at the time you purchase a plane ticket, so it lessens the number of calls to security. I suspect that once they get the state driver's license federally standardized, then they are going to require that to purchase a ticket.

It's going to get worse. In two years you are going to need a passport to go to even Canada and Mexico, even just for a short visit across the border. This will kill the local border economies on both sides. No family is going to want to fill out the paperwork and pay the fees for passports. The travel industry (and I think in small part the airline industry) is already being hurt by this.

DanceMan

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: DanceMan

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
[...
People likely do this sort of thing all the time, but if something like that is enough to get you onto a terrorist list, that list is going to get pretty huge very quickly.

Actually, it's pretty easy to be on the 'no-fly' list. Apparently, somebody with my name is on it, and I have to get checked *every* time I fly. It usually results in the gate agents having to call up the TSA, and they then use your birthday to try to determine if you are really the person or not. Dosen't sound like much of a hassle -- until you get a busy period like on Memorial Day, which then backed up the TSA security call-in number, and it caused me to miss a flight because of this delay. It was the last flight out that day from that airport, but I could take a cab over to another airport (no extra charge for the plane ticket), but the cab cost me $30.00 out of my pocket (it was the fastest way to get there). Thanks TSA!

There is going to be a requirement coming soon to provide your birthdate at the time you purchase a plane ticket, so it lessens the number of calls to security. I suspect that once they get the state driver's license federally standardized, then they are going to require that to purchase a ticket.

It's going to get worse. In two years you are going to need a passport to go to even Canada and Mexico, even just for a short visit across the border. This will kill the local border economies on both sides. No family is going to want to fill out the paperwork and pay the fees for passports. The travel industry (and I think in small part the airline industry) is already being hurt by this.

DanceMan

[/quote]

I was at a familiy reunion this weekend and an uncle of mine who lives in Wash. state said that if you go to Canada you had better have a passport to get back into the states, or you will have a major headache.

 

[jpeyton]

A fountain pen in trained hands can disable almost anyone.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
A fountain pen in trained hands can disable almost anyone.

Somebody watched Silence of the Lambs.

 

[Czar]

Think the fact is that the constitution is supposed to supersede all laws.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Czar
Think the fact is that the constitution is supposed to supersede all laws.

Just dropping in

You have addressed what everyone missed. Not the law or how it is being enforced.

This:

"It's a national security issue. And I said what about my constitutional rights? And they said 'not at this point ... you don't have any'."

When did she surrender them, and when did the government have the right to take them away?

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: zendari
Funny. The left blames Bush for security lapses at airports that led to 9/11, then blames Bush for enacting stricter security policy.

When did somebody hijack or attempt to hijack a plane using a butter knife? Or a 1 inch nail file on a pair of fingernail clippers for that matter?

Should we wait for another 9/11 before banning such substances?

Yes, because another one won't happen. Unfortunately, people seem to be idiots. The airlines problems were solved on the day of the hijackings! If terrorists are stupid enough to try to hijack an airplane, they'll deserve what they get, which will not be control of a plane.

It was the policy of allowing hijackers control, and giving in to their demands, that allowed 3/4 of the 9/11 hijackings to be successful. That is no longer policy of the airlines, AFAIK, and is definitely not something for the passengers to allow, as evidenced by the 4th plane on 9/11. Were it to happen again, hijackers would be subdued, and possibly killed, before they ever got near a cockpit.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: Czar
Think the fact is that the constitution is supposed to supersede all laws.

It is supposed to. However, willing stupidity actually does.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: MidasKnight

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
The morale of the story is that people simply should not travel with any items that are on the TSA banned items list...that list exists for a reason.

While it seems fairly obvious that what happened to this women is a mistake, laws are only effective when enforced...allowing for exceptions is what creates loopholes that provide opportunities for exploitation of our security measures.

Enforcement of laws are not always fair and not always equitable...she had a knife in her carry on luggage...it is not the responsibility of security personnel to establish intent...they simply exist to enforce the law, and under that law, you cannot bring a knife onto a place...how could the screeners possibly know that the woman made an honest mistake.

Some of you are quick to rush to the defense of this woman...given the climate after 9/11, it should be fairly obvious to anyone that you simply do not travel with items listed on the banned list...fairly common sense.

Don't interrupt the liberal/troll love fest going on in this thread ! How dare you add your reasonable opinion here !

Uh, I think people are reacting more to the extremely unprofessional (and possibly illegal) way the TSA people acted. Yes, you shouldn't bring banned weapons on planes. But mistakes happen, and I don't think that entitles anyone to go on a power trip. The threat of terrorism doesn't make it ok for our law enforcement people to act like wackos.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: irwincur
Well, until the liberals let police agencies profile likely suspects this will be the case. It is not the fault of normal people or the police agencies of the nation. This is clealry the fault of groups like the ACLU crying every time the very mention of profiling is raised.


Without profiling likely suspects, grandmas will be tossed in jail - because everyone must be treated equally no matter how stupid it seems.


So thank you left. It is not a flaw in the law, it is a flaw in the prosecution of the law. I suspect that the ACLU is more than likely extremely happy as they now have a new client - one that they helped to make. They are in a win, win situation - they get to defend real terrorists who have been unfairly profiled as well as those that are the victims of a lack of profiling.

Profiling is a very dubious security concept. Any time you pay more attention to one group, you pay less attention to the rest of them. Any terrorist with two neurons to rub together will be able to figure out how to get someone in their group past the profile.

I know this doesn't seem to make sense, but think about it. On the surface it sounds fine. Joe and Jill O'Hara, who have Irish roots and are returning from vacation are less likely to be terrorists than Abdul on a one way flight from Saudi Arabia, right? So don't check Joe and Jill and pay special attention to Abdul. Sounds good, until figure out how to not match the terrorist profile. Maybe it will require more work, but then you have no chance of getting caught. What a great idea, I only wish you were running our police agencies.

There are rights issues, but there are also logical issues. I'd argue that both of them make profiling a bad idea.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: zendari

I guess OBL should start training his cronies to be old grandmas highschool principals. Because they are clearly above the law. :roll:

And if the modus operandi is to get the 57-year old grandma terrorists to pose as schoolteachers with 37 kids in tow, all so as to be able to smuggle a serrated bread knife (horror of horrors) on board, I guess I'm willing to incur that risk.

But since our country if filled with quivering masses of fear, such as yourself, why don't we just outlaw metal utensils altogether? We'd all me so much safer with just plastic.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: Czar
Think the fact is that the constitution is supposed to supersede all laws.

Just dropping in

You have addressed what everyone missed. Not the law or how it is being enforced.

This:

"It's a national security issue. And I said what about my constitutional rights? And they said 'not at this point ... you don't have any'."

When did she surrender them, and when did the government have the right to take them away?

9-11

Where were you? The Terrists won

 

[MadRat]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: zendari
I guess OBL should start training his cronies to be old grandmas highschool principals. Because they are clearly above the law. :roll:

And if the modus operandi is to get the 57-year old grandma terrorists to pose as schoolteachers with 37 kids in tow, all so as to be able to smuggle a serrated bread knife (horror of horrors) on board, I guess I'm willing to incur that risk.
But since our country if filled with quivering masses of fear, such as yourself, why don't we just outlaw metal utensils altogether? We'd all me so much safer with just plastic.

They pretty much have done it in the schools. Take a metal fork to school anymore and its treated like its a major event. The schools enacted this crap pre-911.