"...what about my constitutional rights?"..."not at this point ... you don't have any'

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
'This Is Not Right'
http://www.komotv.com/stories/37150.htm
DES MOINES - Cecilia Beaman is a 57-year-old grandmother, a principal at Pacific Middle School in Des Moines, and as of Sunday is also a suspected terrorist.

"This is not right," she told us. It's not right!"

This past weekend she and several other chaperones took 37 middle school students to a Heritage Festival band competition in California. The trip included two days at Disneyland.

During the stay she made sandwiches for the kids and was careful to pack the knives she used to prepare those sandwiches in her checked luggage. She says she even alerted security screeners that the knives were in her checked bags and they told her that was OK.

But Beaman says she couldn't find a third knife. It was a 5 1/2 inch bread knife with a rounded tip and a serrated edge. She thought she might have lost or misplaced it during the trip.

On the trip home, screeners with the Transportation Security Administration at Los Angeles International Airport found it deep in the outside pocket of a carry-on cooler. Beaman apologized and told them it was a mistake.

"You've committed a felony," Beaman says a security screener announced. "And you're considered a terrorist."

Beaman says she was told her name would go on a terrorist watch-list and that she would have to pay a $500 fine.

"I'm a 57-year-old woman who is taking care of 37 kids," she told them. "I'm not gonna commit a terrorist act." Beaman says they took information from her Washington drivers license and confiscated and photographed the knife according to standard operating procedure.

She says screeners refused to give her paperwork or documentation of her violation, documentation of the pending fine, or a copy of the photograph of the knife.

"They said 'no' and they said it's a national security issue. And I said what about my constitutional rights? And they said 'not at this point ... you don't have any'."


KOMO News did reach a spokesperson with the Transportation Security Administration for comment. They said they did not have record of Beaman's confrontation but did admit that TSA screeners are, by design, becoming more strict.

Despite continued warnings to passengers, TSA screeners say travelers continue to bring banned items in their carry-on luggage. Knives, guns, and other weapons are found and confiscated daily.

Fines issued for knives and other sharp objects range from $250 to $1,500. Fines issued for firearms discovered in carry-on luggage range from $1,500 to $7,500.

The TSA web site also indicates firearms violations will be referred for potential criminal prosecution. The same site does not propose the same criminal referral for knives like the one Cecilia Beaman was carrying.

"This is not the way my country should be treating me," she said. My concern is that if that's the way they're treating American citizens I would hate to think how they're treating other people. It's crazy."

The TSA reminds travelers that is has the authority to impose civil penalties up to $10,000 per violation.

"TSA needs the help of the traveling public in reducing the number of prohibited items brought to airport screening checkpoints," reads the Sanction Guidelines section of the TSA web site. "TSA recognizes that most passengers who carry prohibited items do so without any ill intent. TSA does not impose fines on the vast number of passengers who inadvertently carry prohibited items. Dealing with any prohibited item, however, adds time to the screening process both for the traveler who brought the item and for other travelers as well."

You can find a complete list of banned items, range of fines levied for violations, and information on how to plead your case with the TSA at www.tsa.gov.
Beautiful. Let's toss her in Gitmo and strip her naked and cuff her arms behind and above her head and leave her there for a couple of days. In the meantime, hose her down with some cold water and have her threatened with dogs. Maybe go ahead and beat her. Surely she'll give up the location of bin Laden or some plans for a suitcase nuke.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Let's toss her in Gitmo and strip her naked and cuff her arms behind and above her head and leave her there for a couple of days. In the meantime, hose her down with some cold water and have her threatened with dogs. Maybe go ahead and beat her. Surely she'll give up the location of bin Laden or some plans for a suitcase nuke.

Can we throw her Bible down the toilet too?
 

ahurtt

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
4,283
0
0
So it has come to this. . .
:(
:brokenheart:
/cry

I pray (if I'm allowed to do that in this forum) that they will straighten this all out.
That screener was probably new or something and just chomping at the bit to feed that "You have committed a felony. You are a terrorist. You have no rights. Resistance is Futile. You will be assimilated" bit to somebody. Someone should string him up by his nutsack. Hmm, but then again that might be considered a terrorist act. . .I wonder . . .am I a terrorist for posting this??? OMG!! /freakout
 

ahurtt

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
4,283
0
0
I wonder how much longer it will be until they have everybody stripping naked and subject us to body cavity x-rays before we can board a plane? Considering these new backscatter x-ray devices they are talking about using now, it might not be that far off.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
The morale of the story is that people simply should not travel with any items that are on the TSA banned items list...that list exists for a reason.

While it seems fairly obvious that what happened to this women is a mistake, laws are only effective when enforced...allowing for exceptions is what creates loopholes that provide opportunities for exploitation of our security measures.

Enforcement of laws are not always fair and not always equitable...she had a knife in her carry on luggage...it is not the responsibility of security personnel to establish intent...they simply exist to enforce the law, and under that law, you cannot bring a knife onto a place...how could the screeners possibly know that the woman made an honest mistake.

Some of you are quick to rush to the defense of this woman...given the climate after 9/11, it should be fairly obvious to anyone that you simply do not travel with items listed on the banned list...fairly common sense.
 

cKGunslinger

Lifer
Nov 29, 1999
16,408
57
91
Ok, we've seem extremists from both sides post here, so where are all the moderate views? :roll:

This is the problem with "zero-tolerance" laws. Sure, you may be able to prevent some things, but it will always be at the expense of the potentially innocent. Shouldn't there be some sort of oversight committee that takes all these violations and *judicially* determines the intent and regulates punishment as needs? ;)

Did she fvck up? Yes. Should her situation be examined and her punishment or lack thereof be considered by an impartial panel? Yes.


Is the TSA working outside the Judiciary?
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
She obviously didn't know it was there. And, TSA *missed* the knife when she left, it was only found on the return trip. Speaks volumes for the effectiveness of the TSA.
 

Amplifier

Banned
Dec 25, 2004
3,143
0
0
See why we can't give the government any more authority over our lives?

Burn the 'patriot' act.
 

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
6,558
0
0
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
The morale of the story is that people simply should not travel with any items that are on the TSA banned items list...that list exists for a reason.

While it seems fairly obvious that what happened to this women is a mistake, laws are only effective when enforced...allowing for exceptions is what creates loopholes that provide opportunities for exploitation of our security measures.

Enforcement of laws are not always fair and not always equitable...she had a knife in her carry on luggage...it is not the responsibility of security personnel to establish intent...they simply exist to enforce the law, and under that law, you cannot bring a knife onto a place...how could the screeners possibly know that the woman made an honest mistake.

Some of you are quick to rush to the defense of this woman...given the climate after 9/11, it should be fairly obvious to anyone that you simply do not travel with items listed on the banned list...fairly common sense.
:thumbsup:

Fairly obvious, perhaps in hindsight. At the time she could be anything.

She obviously didn't know it was there. And, TSA *missed* the knife when she left, it was only found on the return trip. Speaks volumes for the effectiveness of the TSA.
The way I understood it was that the knives were placed (and declared) in checked luggage on the way in, used during the trip, then packed back incorrectly.


I guess OBL should start training his cronies to be old grandmas highschool principals. Because they are clearly above the law. :roll:
 

MidasKnight

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2004
3,288
0
76
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
The morale of the story is that people simply should not travel with any items that are on the TSA banned items list...that list exists for a reason.

While it seems fairly obvious that what happened to this women is a mistake, laws are only effective when enforced...allowing for exceptions is what creates loopholes that provide opportunities for exploitation of our security measures.

Enforcement of laws are not always fair and not always equitable...she had a knife in her carry on luggage...it is not the responsibility of security personnel to establish intent...they simply exist to enforce the law, and under that law, you cannot bring a knife onto a place...how could the screeners possibly know that the woman made an honest mistake.

Some of you are quick to rush to the defense of this woman...given the climate after 9/11, it should be fairly obvious to anyone that you simply do not travel with items listed on the banned list...fairly common sense.

Don't interrupt the liberal/troll love fest going on in this thread ! How dare you add your reasonable opinion here ! ;)
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
The morale of the story is that people simply should not travel with any items that are on the TSA banned items list...that list exists for a reason.

While it seems fairly obvious that what happened to this women is a mistake, laws are only effective when enforced...allowing for exceptions is what creates loopholes that provide opportunities for exploitation of our security measures.

Enforcement of laws are not always fair and not always equitable...she had a knife in her carry on luggage...it is not the responsibility of security personnel to establish intent...they simply exist to enforce the law, and under that law, you cannot bring a knife onto a place...how could the screeners possibly know that the woman made an honest mistake.

Some of you are quick to rush to the defense of this woman...given the climate after 9/11, it should be fairly obvious to anyone that you simply do not travel with items listed on the banned list...fairly common sense.

They were just doing there job. Book'em DanO!! They should have thrown her in jail for the night for such a serious infraction instead of a measley $500 fine!!

To me the moral of this story is that you can't trust the goverment to act with common sense. Give them the power and they will abuse that power....especially if they can make a little money from it.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
She obviously didn't know it was there. And, TSA *missed* the knife when she left, it was only found on the return trip. Speaks volumes for the effectiveness of the TSA.
That is because the knife was in her checked luggage for the departure trip, and in her carry on luggage during the return trip.

During the stay she made sandwiches for the kids and was careful to pack the knives she used to prepare those sandwiches in her checked luggage. She says she even alerted security screeners that the knives were in her checked bags and they told her that was OK.
She told TSA security personnel that the knives were in her checked baggage, which they authorized...so they did not "miss" anything.

On the trip home, screeners with the Transportation Security Administration at Los Angeles International Airport found it deep in the outside pocket of a carry-on cooler. Beaman apologized and told them it was a mistake.
No it seems the TSA was quite effective in this case.

They were just doing there job. Book'em DanO!! They should have thrown her in jail for the night for such a serious infraction instead of a measley $500 fine!!
To me the moral of this story is that you can't trust the goverment to act with common sense. Give them the power and they will abuse that power....especially if they can make a little money from it.
Perhaps you would prefer to live in a society where there are no laws at all...laws are in place to prevent or discourage certain forms of behavior...when someone violates said laws, they pay the price for their infraction.

Security personnel and law enforcement officials simply enforce the law...there is no room for common sense or subjective reasoning in law enforcement...it is up to a judge and our court system to decide if this woman deserves a slap on the wrist or the full punishment.

Case in point...this past weekend, I parked in a metered parking spot but did not put money in the machine because I stopped to use an ATM machine...I come out 5 minutes later and had a ticket...I knew the law...it was clearly posted above the meter...I made a choice...now I have to pay the ticket.



 

ahurtt

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
4,283
0
0
But it was a Mother-Effing BUTTER KNIFE! I could take off my shoe and bludgeon somebody with it and it would be about as dangerous as a butter knife! It's not like it was a sharp pointy steak knife or something. What's she gonna do with a butter knife? Use it to spread butter on the flight stick so the pilot's hand slips off and the plane crashes? These screening policies are getting down right ludicrous. I remember one time when we were taking a family trip to New Zealand, the sad and disappointed look on one TSA screeners face at LAX as he triumphantly produced a pair of fingernail clippers from my dad's carry on personal bag only to find the little 1" nail file had already been snapped off by a screener at BWI in Baltimore. He had been beat to the punch and he was disappointed. . .you could literally see the disappointment on his face. Somebody get these guys on a leash. Because they obviously don't know where their boundaries should be. And for the sake of consistency, why wasn't my dad charged with a felony and put on a terrorist watch list for trying to bring an illegal nail file onto the plane? I'll tell you why, because it is subjective depending on how zealous the screener decides to be. They are not disciplining the screeners well enough and not teaching them sound judgement. This is what happens when you put imbeciles in positions of power and authority. [Insert Bush jab here]
 

jimkyser

Senior member
Nov 13, 2004
547
0
0
Since she screwed up, she should have to pay the fine.

However, the refusal to provide any evidence (even a photograph) of the knife or the incident due to 'National Security' is absolute BS. The Constitution doesn't allow for secret evidence, secret tribunals or secret witnesses, under any circumstances. She has every right to fight the fine just like you have a right to fight the fine for a speeding or parking ticket. If they still refuse to provide evidence at a trial, she will be aquitted.

Also, if they truly place her on a traveler's 'watch list', they are a bunch of morons.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: jimkyser

Also, if they truly place her on a traveler's 'watch list', they are a bunch of morons.

What's new? This is a offshoot of bush policy. moron written, lazy congressmen and women approved.
 

andy9o

Senior member
May 27, 2005
494
2
0
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
She obviously didn't know it was there. And, TSA *missed* the knife when she left, it was only found on the return trip. Speaks volumes for the effectiveness of the TSA.
That is because the knife was in her checked luggage for the departure trip, and in her carry on luggage during the return trip.

During the stay she made sandwiches for the kids and was careful to pack the knives she used to prepare those sandwiches in her checked luggage. She says she even alerted security screeners that the knives were in her checked bags and they told her that was OK.
She told TSA security personnel that the knives were in her checked baggage, which they authorized...so they did not "miss" anything.

On the trip home, screeners with the Transportation Security Administration at Los Angeles International Airport found it deep in the outside pocket of a carry-on cooler. Beaman apologized and told them it was a mistake.
No it seems the TSA was quite effective in this case.

They were just doing there job. Book'em DanO!! They should have thrown her in jail for the night for such a serious infraction instead of a measley $500 fine!!
To me the moral of this story is that you can't trust the goverment to act with common sense. Give them the power and they will abuse that power....especially if they can make a little money from it.
Perhaps you would prefer to live in a society where there are no laws at all...laws are in place to prevent or discourage certain forms of behavior...when someone violates said laws, they pay the price for their infraction.

Security personnel and law enforcement officials simply enforce the law...there is no room for common sense or subjective reasoning in law enforcement...it is up to a judge and our court system to decide if this woman deserves a slap on the wrist or the full punishment.

Case in point...this past weekend, I parked in a metered parking spot but did not put money in the machine because I stopped to use an ATM machine...I come out 5 minutes later and had a ticket...I knew the law...it was clearly posted above the meter...I made a choice...now I have to pay the ticket.

of course, the items used to hijack the planes on 9/11 were all considered harmless, so, bullying grandmas on september 10th wouldn't have stopped the hijackings.
 

irwincur

Golden Member
Jul 8, 2002
1,899
0
0
Well, until the liberals let police agencies profile likely suspects this will be the case. It is not the fault of normal people or the police agencies of the nation. This is clealry the fault of groups like the ACLU crying every time the very mention of profiling is raised.


Without profiling likely suspects, grandmas will be tossed in jail - because everyone must be treated equally no matter how stupid it seems.


So thank you left. It is not a flaw in the law, it is a flaw in the prosecution of the law. I suspect that the ACLU is more than likely extremely happy as they now have a new client - one that they helped to make. They are in a win, win situation - they get to defend real terrorists who have been unfairly profiled as well as those that are the victims of a lack of profiling.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
uhh yeah it is the fault of the left for letting the right get us into the situation of having to be harrassed traveling in our own country becasue of the rights fvcked foreign policys...suuure...
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Probably looked like this
Doesn't matter what it looks life if it is on the banned list.

of course, the items used to hijack the planes on 9/11 were all considered harmless, so, bullying grandmas on september 10th wouldn't have stopped the hijackings.
The current security measures are in direct response to what happened on 9/11, with the intent of preventing such a tragedy again...we are dealing with what the law states as of the time of this woman's offense, not the law as it existed prior to 9/11.

If a group of hijackers could manage to take a plane with boxcutters, could they not also do the same with a butter knife?
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
uhh yeah it is the fault of the left for letting the right get us into the situation of having to be harrassed traveling in our own country becasue of the rights fvcked foreign policys...suuure...

LOL, it's Clinton's fault!!!
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
Probably looked like this
Doesn't matter what it looks life if it is on the banned list.

of course, the items used to hijack the planes on 9/11 were all considered harmless, so, bullying grandmas on september 10th wouldn't have stopped the hijackings.
The current security measures are in direct response to what happened on 9/11, with the intent of preventing such a tragedy again...we are dealing with what the law states as of the time of this woman's offense, not the law as it existed prior to 9/11.

If a group of hijackers could manage to take a plane with boxcutters, could they not also do the same with a butter knife?
Or a hardsole shoe for that matter? Should we start labeing people terrorist and fining them thousands of dollars for accidentally bring shoes onto a plane? How about matial atists who's hands are deadly weapons; shall we hog-tie them before bringing them onboard a plane?