Originally posted by: Astrallite
The tweeters are horn-loaded I believe. In theory this would make the highs directional and recessed if not pointed directly at your ears (even more so than normal tweeters). Total speculation on my part.
What I do know is, the Logitech has outrageous loose bass (better than most of those sub-$100 2.1/5.1 sets, but its still nothing to bragg about). The Klipsch is a little better in this regard, but still, at this price point, maybe avoiding the sub and going for more full-range (music-wise anyway) speakers would be better (I'm talking about port chuffing, boominess (not tight bass), poorly braced drivers, cabinet resonances, etc). The Swans are really the best suggestion so far I believe. With most speakers, "refurbished" will mean it is completely capable as a new speaker is, but there may be imperfections to the exterior cabinet. I dunno how newegg defines refurbished, but you have a 30-day return warranty if you don't like them (or need to replace them for another set).
Logitech speakers get better reviews because 1) they are more asthetically pleasing (looks more like a computer toy) 2) their systems are loud and pumped full of power. In a head-to-head matchup with Klipsch, they won't compare, for several reasons. One, the sub isn't as good--it isn't tuned properly and the driver spikes at 80-90hz, where the majority of the "boominess" lies. I still use my Logitech sub, but crossed over at 80hz. The internal crossover on several of the Logitech systems is 160hz, which is, to say the least, not great. The sub is playing way too many frequencies, and I don't think that 8-10" woofer is really playing 150hz that well (driver excursion!!!). The satellites only carry down to 140hz, which is one of the primary reasons for the high crossover. Klipsch isn't without its problems as well; their satellites also use a 3" midrange, and lo and behold, there was a frequency hole on their v2-400 sets from 120-140hz (their sub is crossed over at 120hz). They "solved" this problem with aggresive EQing which filled the gap in their later Promedia sets, but as we all know, EQ isn't great for sound quality. Both speakers have things going for them, I think the Klipsch may sound marginally better, but in truth, if you are gonna drop $100 extra dollars on Klipsch, save that for a 90s stereo receiver and get real bookshelves instead. Because that's not a marginal difference, that's HUGE difference.
I agree with much of what Astrallite has said here, but would like to add the following:
The directionality of the horns that he mentions, and that I talked about in my previous post, is really not a huge issue. It's only really noticeable if the speakers are close to you and you move way off to the side of them. But I, like most users I'd assume, don't move around a lot when I'm computing -- I sit in the chair in front of the screen and work (and listen). Sure, I get up and move around from time to time, but I'm usually not doing that a lot. Also, if I put the speakers across the room and still aim them at my desk or something, the highs still sound fine no matter where I am in the room (granted it's a small room). Now, these speakers aren't designed to fill a very large room with sound, so keep that in mind. They're for a bedroom, den, home or work office, or maybe even a small living room.
The Swans are really the best suggestion so far I believe.
I haven't heard these speakers myself, but I sometimes wonder what all the fuss is about. They are a 2.0 system, so no subwoofer, and the frequency response doesn't extend particularly far down. So any 'serious' use of these speakers with hiqh quality source material would require an additional subwoofer, thus adding to the total cost and impacting their overall value (not to mention the efficacy of comparisons to other speaker sets). I'd guess they probably sound very good for a 2.0 system, but they're still 2.0 and thus can only do so much in the bass department. Sometimes I think people mention them 'cuz they think they'll look cool if they mention some obscure-but-supposedly-hot speaker system that isn't Klipsch, Logitech or Creative [not that I'm accusing Astrallite of doing that :laugh: ]. My admittedly untested opinion is that $170 can prolly buy better sound than they can be capable of. They have fancy cabinets with wood pieces on the side, however, so maybe that's why they cost so much (?).
Logitech speakers get better reviews because 1) they are more asthetically pleasing (looks more like a computer toy) 2) their systems are loud and pumped full of power.
True, and I also think they, along with many other computer audio components, also get "better" reviews because the reviewers that review computer speakers typically aren't qualified to review any audio components, including speakers. So, flaws they may have go unrecognized and unreported. Computer knowledge does not equal audio knowledge, nor does it give one trained ears or a formal education in audio engineering or related fields. Since established & respected audio magazines seldom, if ever, review computer speakers, however, all we're left with is reviews done by computer folks and adolescent gamer geeks. Better than nothing (
maybe), but judging any computer audio equipment under such circumstances is iffy at best. Better to look at specs than buy speakers based on a review by some "computer guy" at some computer hardware Web site. :roll:
The internal crossover on several of the Logitech systems is 160hz, which is, to say the least, not great. The sub is playing way too many frequencies, and I don't think that 8-10" woofer is really playing 150hz that well (driver excursion!!!).
Well spotted. Right on.
And of course the same goes for similar speaker sets from other brands -- this is not simply a Logitech phenomenon.
Klipsch isn't without its problems as well; their satellites also use a 3" midrange, and lo and behold, there was a frequency hole on their v2-400 sets from 120-140hz (their sub is crossed over at 120hz). They "solved" this problem with aggresive EQing which filled the gap in their later Promedia sets, but as we all know, EQ isn't great for sound quality.
I'm not familiar with the "aggressive EQing" referred to here, but I'll take his word for it. I would add, however, that it has to be tough to get around this problem any other way with a system of this size. The sub can't crossover any higher without running into the aforementioned problems associated with doing that, nor can the satellites' midrange extend higher without using larger cones or doing away with the Micro Tractix Horns and going to a more 'conventional' cone array (which would defeat much of the uniqueness and some of the other attributes of the system). For what it's worth, the review I linked to earlier makes a point to mention how unusually smooth the crossover is with the ProMedias, so whatever EQing Klipsch did doesn't seem to have caused any significant problems (particularly considering the very smooth FR curve out to 20KHz as well and the system's exceptional THD specs).
... but in truth, if you are gonna drop $100 extra dollars on Klipsch, save that for a 90s stereo receiver and get real bookshelves instead. Because that's not a marginal difference, that's HUGE difference.
I think the OP said he didn't have room for bookshelf speakers, so unfortunately that won't really work here.
Also, the ProMedias'
usable frequency response (reasonably audible, in other words) extends down to about 42Hz. It's down 5dB at that point, but that's still tolerable (and audible). Even if we wanted to pick a more traditional -3dB point, I'd guess that's prolly between 45 and 50Hz (I can't find an actual measurement of that, but it would stand to reason). That being the case, I don't know of any bookshelf speakers, in the ProMedias' price range, that extend that far down
at a usably audible level. So, the bass response of the ProMedias is likely to be
better than virtually any bookshelf speakers out there (again, in the $150ish range), and with their THD specs and overall frequency response being so good as well, I don't know if I'd agree that bookshelf speakers by themselves are gonna yield better
overall sound than the ProMedias (on-axis, anyway). In fact, I'd bet they're likely to be
inferior. Now, adding a subwoofer to a pair of high quality bookshelf speakers is another story entirely, but then you're talking a
lot more money and the whole comparison becomes one of apples vs. oranges. The $150ish ProMedias were not intended to compete with systems consisting of a separate receiver, bookshelf speakers and a larger sub and costing 2 or 3 times as much (or more).
Interesting discussion.
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