Overall, it looked like pretty good stuff. There are some excellent changes that should have been a long time coming (stat trimming for example), real character progression at max level (instead of grinding for gear that gets replaced each expansion), etc. I could care less about Worgen and Goblins, because it's just a new skin on grinding up the same old classes. Old Azeroth is such a cool place, but it is largely ignored because everyone is plowing ahead to 80, and the old world is well...old. Spirit on Two-Handed Axes, Strength on Cloth Gloves FTW?! 
Blizzard has clearly given up on WoW- this expansion rather firmly nails that down.
New zones? Besides opening up a couple areas that had been closed off due to height issues, nothing. New talents? None. 5 levels? New instances and raids? Mainly rehashes of ones we have beaten ad nauseam. New races- Goblins and Worgen? Worgen who have always been aligned with the sinister side of things going to allies and Goblins who have always remained firmly neutral and are just money lovers are going Horde? Really Blizzard?
Then we get to the stat changes- removing MP5(aka removing mages from another expansion, heh, back to BC for that class), hosing AP because Blizz is too stupid to make gear that appeals to the classes they think should wear it(seriously, five minutes over at EJ could improve their itemization ten fold). No more defense juggling? Seriously? Facerolling your way to full highest tier epics wasn't enough, now you need to make it so multi spec classes only need one set of gear(DKs/Warriors/Ret-Prot Pallies). Are things not easy enough already? Do you really need to remove the slight modicum of thought that was required when selectnig gear? It is the only time you really had to think playing the game anymore anyway.
So Blizzard is coming out and admitting they don't know how to make a game, clearly they got almost everything wrong in the last two expansions, and are instead trying to dumb the game down to the point where a typical non gamer can easily handle anything in the game. It is shocking how bad Blizzard is now at making games.
New zones? Besides opening up a couple areas that had been closed off due to height issues, nothing. New talents? None. 5 levels? New instances and raids? Mainly rehashes of ones we have beaten ad nauseam. New races- Goblins and Worgen? Worgen who have always been aligned with the sinister side of things going to allies and Goblins who have always remained firmly neutral and are just money lovers are going Horde? Really Blizzard?
Then we get to the stat changes- removing MP5(aka removing mages from another expansion, heh, back to BC for that class), hosing AP because Blizz is too stupid to make gear that appeals to the classes they think should wear it(seriously, five minutes over at EJ could improve their itemization ten fold). No more defense juggling? Seriously? Facerolling your way to full highest tier epics wasn't enough, now you need to make it so multi spec classes only need one set of gear(DKs/Warriors/Ret-Prot Pallies). Are things not easy enough already? Do you really need to remove the slight modicum of thought that was required when selectnig gear? It is the only time you really had to think playing the game anymore anyway.
So Blizzard is coming out and admitting they don't know how to make a game, clearly they got almost everything wrong in the last two expansions, and are instead trying to dumb the game down to the point where a typical non gamer can easily handle anything in the game. It is shocking how bad Blizzard is now at making games.
your postly is wholly wrong and misguided but I'm tired of addressing the same points over and over again, so can I have your stuff?
I can't think of a roll that really needs to be filled and I think blizz has enough time trying to manage class balance as it is.
Indeed. A new class would be fun, but not necessary. Blizzard added DKs because they wanted to have four tanking classes, just like there are four healing classes.
Coming from a guy who asks-
They did that some time prior to Ulduar. Pay attention much?
I know the Blizz apologist crew comes out in force in these threads, but seriously anyone who tries to defend the abortion that is Wrath has absolutely no taste in games whatsoever IMO Thought you were ally?
flexy
Diamond Member
- Sep 28, 2001
- 8,464
- 155
- 106
Originally posted by: flexy
It looks like a VERY good expansion. Although..i saw a trailer with the cheesiest voice-over ever
By the way..i am not a person (like my wife) which levels 900 Alts to 80....i hate the thought to go through all this *again* with another toon.
BUT...since they revamped quite a bit of the old world...this means that there are new quests which makes levelling a new toon interesting again.
-> Flying in Azeroth: AWESOME
-> I think it is a VERY good change to finally tie Azeroth to high level raids.
NO JOKE: HEROIC DEADMINES <--- was an insider joke...now it becomes reality
this means that there is a logical connection now since "the old lands" now will have new igh lvl instances...and people will NOT only go to SW for the AH....or for showing off their new mounts in Goldshire. So i think its a good change what they do to include the old parts into new game play.
Worgen WARLOCK <--- WTF...i cant even imagine..this might have potential
All in all, this expansion seems BETTER than the BS with introducing DKs, and from what i read the changes do make sense and make an overall better game!
adding zones where empty space currently exists = new zones. it's not like Gilneas has been sitting there built and developed since WoW was originally released. the only difference between the zones they're adding in Cat vs BC/WotLK is that they're physically connected to existing zones. they're also totally revamping old zones and leveling is going to be a much different experience according to the panels.
path of the titans. and talent trees are all being revamped, with the passive +hit/crit/etc (aka: the boring talents) getting removed and presumably replaced.
less leveling content = more endgame content. levels are an arbitrary construct. the only thing that 10 levels would do over 5 would be making returning to WotLK content easier (since mobs would be gray to you at 90 but probably still green at 85)
not really... people have been asking for heroic deadmines for forever and heroic SFK balances it out nicely (since DM is primarily an alliance instance and SFK is primarily horde)
the worgen that are joining the alliance are not the worgen that we've been killing in Silverpine/Duskwood/etc. they're effectively the humans of Gilneas just inflicted with a curse. considering the reason Gilneas broke away from the alliance originally was because they wanted to kill the horde outright rather than imprison them, I can't see them getting all buddy-buddy with their forsaken neighbors.
goblins as neutral is a relatively recent phenomena, they were part of the horde in WC2.
downloading a spreadsheet never took skill. mastering strats, coordination, learning boss fights, knowing when to use cd's/consumables, knowing how to play your class, having good reaction times, etc, etc does and still will.
having to play with dual monitors so you can have WoW open in one and excel open in the other is another negative change that BC ushered in.
so, you liked original WoW and hated BC/WotLK... and now that blizzard is bringing back some of the better aspects of the original game, you hate it even more?
Aikouka
Lifer
- Nov 27, 2001
- 30,383
- 912
- 126
I don't believe the reduction in stats was purely for dumbing down the game. I believe one of the reasons was to make more gear appealing to more classes. Like on my Enhancement Shaman... I prefer to avoid mail gear with Armor Penetration because it isn't as powerful as haste or critical strike per point. By getting rid of it off gear, I won't have to worry about avoiding "Hunter mail" anymore
.I see Blizzard nerfing the cooldown on that soul ability from 30 seconds to either 1 minute or 2 minutes. One problem is that the instant soul fire is a buff for Affliction and Destruction, but it's not a 100% buff for Demonology because they get a reduced cast soul fire when the mob is below 35% anyway. Also in a way, instant casts are similar to 1-1.5s cast spells as you still cannot cast another spell because of the GCD... only benefit is that you can cast while moving
.I'm a little "worried" about the changes. I've grown quite good at knowing all the quests and now I'll probably have to purge most of those and learn a ton of new quests and also a new way to level (which zone to go to when).
You should see me on my poor Shaman... I'm spending so much time just trying to figure out which piece of T9.25 to buy as I need to ensure that it won't hurt my expertise or hit and if it does, is it possible to make it up with a gem? I've got a Trophy and 75+ emblems but I just can't make up my mind
.Some of these areas were never added because they were never finished. Did you ever visit the unfinished Mt. Hyjal? I think most people are excited to find out what some of the stuff is... like the weird Onyxia-like cave that was just kind of there.
All talents will be revamped heavily to remove the passive talents and those passive bonuses will be added in the new "Mastery system." Also, Blizzard likes to add new "cool talents" when it comes to adding new tiers of talents but they also like to put cool talents every 10 points... see the problem here?
The Worgen are actually humans from Gilneas that were aligned with the Alliance for quite awhile. The Goblins did actually join the Horde (well, one trade prince did) during the Second War.
You know that FFB mages are better than arcane right now? Also, you don't think that Blizzard will adjust Arcane accordingly since they won't be getting spirit gear?
This is one thing that I don't like... now you have to spec into a talent to be defense capped. Originally Blizzard wanted to make it so any spec could tank (dungeons and such), but now that's not really possible since defense gear won't exist
.Originally posted by: Aikouka
This is one thing that I don't like... now you have to spec into a talent to be defense capped. Originally Blizzard wanted to make it so any spec could tank (dungeons and such), but now that's not really possible since defense gear won't exist
Juggling defense is a silly exercise, and your argument doesn't really hold water. Are you really going to let a Ret Paladin who has 540 defense with tanking gear tank Ulduar? Come on now...
This argument has even less weight since the introduction of dual specs. Is it really that hard to spec your secondary talents into a tanking tree if you really want to tank?
All in all, allowing tanks to spec to be uncrittable is a huge boon for new tanks, since they don't have to run dungeons as something else and hope to get enough gear to become uncrittable and be able to tank. It is also a good thing for veteran tanks, so that they don't have to waste time juggling gear/enchants/gems for optimal stats while still retaining 540+ def.
Beev
Diamond Member
- Apr 20, 2006
- 7,775
- 0
- 0
Meh, I'm at work with nothing to do, so...
New zones in Wotlk: BT, HF, DB, GH, ZD, SB, SP, IC. New in Cataclysm? 5 zones, that we know of so far, and entirely redone versions of about 20 zones. What's your problem again?
At some point they just have to stop adding talents, otherwise you start getting synergies that are way overpowered and hard to keep up with. I don't know if that was the right decision to make yet, though.
5 instead of 10 levels is VERY welcome, and I don't even see how you can bitch about that.
Uh, no? Just because an instance is set to a similar theme it doesn't mean you've done it before. Just because a boss doesn't die in the lore and comes back later doesn't mean you've done it before (see Anub'arak).
The one point that I at least slightly agree with you on. I think a great way for them to handle these two races would have been to make them neutral, and let you pick a faction upon character creation.
The stat changes are just being done to simplify the game for the non-hardcore crowd. I don't love or hate the changes. The game needs to be easier overall and this just helps that.
Oh look, another anti-Blizzard post by you. I guess at least this one is in a Blizzard thread...
Casual non gamers are the majority of the player base. That's where the make their money. Hardcore raiders like Anubis, Soccerman, and to a lesser degree, myself, are completely unimportant. We don't run the game, the casuals do, and rightly so. If you want a hardcore game, go play Lineage or some other shit.
I have to have this damn conversation with people in my guild all the time, an they never have a real answer. If you don't like the game, why do you play? Spare us all your whining and cancel your damn account. If it IS canceled, then you don't want to play/care and should stay out of people that do care's conversations. Do I follow you around and shit on games you like?
New zones in Wotlk: BT, HF, DB, GH, ZD, SB, SP, IC. New in Cataclysm? 5 zones, that we know of so far, and entirely redone versions of about 20 zones. What's your problem again?
At some point they just have to stop adding talents, otherwise you start getting synergies that are way overpowered and hard to keep up with. I don't know if that was the right decision to make yet, though.
5 instead of 10 levels is VERY welcome, and I don't even see how you can bitch about that.
Uh, no? Just because an instance is set to a similar theme it doesn't mean you've done it before. Just because a boss doesn't die in the lore and comes back later doesn't mean you've done it before (see Anub'arak).
The one point that I at least slightly agree with you on. I think a great way for them to handle these two races would have been to make them neutral, and let you pick a faction upon character creation.
The stat changes are just being done to simplify the game for the non-hardcore crowd. I don't love or hate the changes. The game needs to be easier overall and this just helps that.
Oh look, another anti-Blizzard post by you. I guess at least this one is in a Blizzard thread...
Casual non gamers are the majority of the player base. That's where the make their money. Hardcore raiders like Anubis, Soccerman, and to a lesser degree, myself, are completely unimportant. We don't run the game, the casuals do, and rightly so. If you want a hardcore game, go play Lineage or some other shit.
I have to have this damn conversation with people in my guild all the time, an they never have a real answer. If you don't like the game, why do you play? Spare us all your whining and cancel your damn account. If it IS canceled, then you don't want to play/care and should stay out of people that do care's conversations. Do I follow you around and shit on games you like?
OutHouse
Lifer
- Jun 5, 2000
- 36,410
- 616
- 126
the one feature that i think is a great change is the cross-realm LFG. that will be great in finding people to do group quest for.
the worst change is the fly anywhere. exploring the world is part of the game if they were smart they should just allow 80+ the privilege of being able to fly in the EK and Kalimdor. they may as well just do away with ground mounts now.
the worst change is the fly anywhere. exploring the world is part of the game if they were smart they should just allow 80+ the privilege of being able to fly in the EK and Kalimdor. they may as well just do away with ground mounts now.
I'm sure flight will be limited somehow... otherwise people without the expansion pack could reach the new zones.
OutHouse
Lifer
- Jun 5, 2000
- 36,410
- 616
- 126
Human's get Hunters GOOD
Dwarfs Shamans and Mages DUMB, DWARFS HATE MAGIC
Night Elves get mages GOOD, THE NIGHT ELVES USED TO HAVE THE HIGHBORN
Gnomes get priests STUPID, GMOMES ARE NOT PIUS AT ALL
Taurens get Pallies and Priests, STUPID THEY ARE A TRIBE AND HAVE SHAMMYS
Orcs get Mages STUPID THEY HAVE SHAMMYS
Blood Elves get Warriors, GOOD
Undead get Hunters WHY IN THE FUCK DOES A ZOMBIE NEED TO BE A HUNTER?
Trolls get Druids ON THE FENCE ON THIS ONE.
Dwarfs Shamans and Mages DUMB, DWARFS HATE MAGIC
Night Elves get mages GOOD, THE NIGHT ELVES USED TO HAVE THE HIGHBORN
Gnomes get priests STUPID, GMOMES ARE NOT PIUS AT ALL
Taurens get Pallies and Priests, STUPID THEY ARE A TRIBE AND HAVE SHAMMYS
Orcs get Mages STUPID THEY HAVE SHAMMYS
Blood Elves get Warriors, GOOD
Undead get Hunters WHY IN THE FUCK DOES A ZOMBIE NEED TO BE A HUNTER?
Trolls get Druids ON THE FENCE ON THIS ONE.
It would seem that the level restrictions on flying that are in place now will remain, so level 1s won't be flying around on gryphons.
They will also probably have some sort of restriction on flying in the post-Cataclysm Azeroth (much like Cold Weather Flying in Northrend), then lower the cap in a later patch after everyone has had time to "explore" the new content.
Then again, having to ride around on a ground mount is painful after you're used to epic flying, so I personally hope that they let us fly from the get-go!
FFB with 0MP5 isn't viable either(without molten armor the spec falls down).
Last round of spirit/mp5 changes Blizzard said noone would see a while casting change. Arcane mages lost 20% of their mp5 while casting- and we explained why this would happen(it was very obvious that it was going to, they denied it, they lied, that is when fire overtook arcane). Blizzard does not understand the game mechanics as well as most of their smarter players, no matter what they lie and tell you(arcane mages could solo a good chunk of Naxx using a mechanic they intentionally put in, again- they were warned in advance and ignored it).
Not Ulduar, but cleared Naxx with a Ret OT before- no issues either.
Every plate wearer will think they are a tank, that is where the problem will come from. I absolutely hated that on my DK, getting into a pug was a struggle for quite a while due to the scrubs who thought they were tanks giving the class a bad name. Had my druid for years, had T4-T5 tank gear for him(entirely left overs/last call before shard) but I always made it clear to people I was a tree pretending to be a tank before I tried to tank anything- there is a HUGE difference between filling out a spec tree and being able to fill the roll. Given, Blizzard is making WoW drool bucket friendly now, but a tank that doesn't have his taunt out of his spellbook is going to get a lore more common with this change.
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