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Were you an early HDTV adopter? Does your TV only have component inputs?

M

MrBond

Diamond Member
Saw this on Slashdot this morning:

http://blog.scifi.com/tech/archives/ear...ters_screwed_by_hddisc_rules.html#more

What it boils down to is this. The people developing AACS have designed it so that unless the picture is transmitted from the DVD player to the TV in purely digital format (and therefore, can carry the copy protection along with it), the resolution displayed on the television will be 960 x 540 pixels - which is 1/4 the resolution of normal HD-DVD content.

Most early HDTV's only had component inputs. They estimate between 3 and 6.6 million TV's are out there that will be affected by this copy protection.

No idea what sort of copy protection Blue Ray will have or if it will do anything like this. This seems like a pretty boneheaded move on the part of the HD-DVD consortium - if it boils down to being able to watch HD content at full resolution with BlueRay and component inputs or watching it at 1/4 the resolution with HD-DVD - I can't see many people going the HD-DVD route.
 
Originally posted by: MrBond
Saw this on Slashdot this morning:

http://blog.scifi.com/tech/archives/ear...ters_screwed_by_hddisc_rules.html#more

What it boils down to is this. The people developing AACS have designed it so that unless the picture is transmitted from the DVD player to the TV in purely digital format (and therefore, can carry the copy protection along with it), the resolution displayed on the television will be 960 x 540 pixels - which is 1/4 the resolution of normal HD-DVD content.

Most early HDTV's only had component inputs. They estimate between 3 and 6.6 million TV's are out there that will be affected by this copy protection.

No idea what sort of copy protection Blue Ray will have or if it will do anything like this. This seems like a pretty boneheaded move on the part of the HD-DVD consortium - if it boils down to being able to watch HD content at full resolution with BlueRay and component inputs or watching it at 1/4 the resolution with HD-DVD - I can't see many people going the HD-DVD route.
Click to expand...

Most HDTV's today and previously do not display 1080P images anyway. The highest they go is 1080i. So you're really not losing 3/4 of the resolution. You lose about 1/2.
 
Originally posted by: LikeLinus
Originally posted by: MrBond
Saw this on Slashdot this morning:

http://blog.scifi.com/tech/archives/ear...ters_screwed_by_hddisc_rules.html#more

What it boils down to is this. The people developing AACS have designed it so that unless the picture is transmitted from the DVD player to the TV in purely digital format (and therefore, can carry the copy protection along with it), the resolution displayed on the television will be 960 x 540 pixels - which is 1/4 the resolution of normal HD-DVD content.

Most early HDTV's only had component inputs. They estimate between 3 and 6.6 million TV's are out there that will be affected by this copy protection.

No idea what sort of copy protection Blue Ray will have or if it will do anything like this. This seems like a pretty boneheaded move on the part of the HD-DVD consortium - if it boils down to being able to watch HD content at full resolution with BlueRay and component inputs or watching it at 1/4 the resolution with HD-DVD - I can't see many people going the HD-DVD route.
Click to expand...

Most HDTV's today and previously do not display 1080P images anyway. The highest they go is 1080i. So you're really not losing 3/4 of the resolution. You lose about 1/2.
Click to expand...


In terms of horizontal lines of resolution...they have the same number...its just a matter of if they are displayed at once or not
 
blue ray will also have HDCP, which will down scale content if you don't have a digital path to a monitor with HDCP built in

the only hope, as I see it, is if we can rip the hi def DVD content straight off the disc in its raw form, and descramble it and copy it to the hard drive with the copy protection removed.
 
[/quote]

Most HDTV's today and previously do not display 1080P images anyway. The highest they go is 1080i. So you're really not losing 3/4 of the resolution. You lose about 1/2.[/quote]

True.... most sets are either 1080i or 720P.
Glad I bought a DLP

I still think it sucks.
Alot of early adopters are the reason HD has gotten a foothold and now they are screwing them over. These companies nee early adopters to help ensure the success of HD-DVD/BluRay, otherwise they will fail. IF early adopters are unable to display HD-DVD's and are forced to buy another large purchase just for HD-DVD/BluRay, they are not gonna be happy campers.

The first camp to drop this HDMI + HDCP requirement is the first camp to win the format war.
 
Basically, anyone who does not have HDCP enabled devices would be stupid to buy blu-ray or HD-DVD. Personally, I think that's a really dumb move by the people trying push those new technologies, because I for one will not be moving to them for the foreseeable future. Had they not put in the limitation, I would have been one of the first to move to the new tech.

<edit> My 57" HDTV is 2-3 years old, and has only component, composite and svideo inputs. There's absolutely no way I'm going to go out and buy a new one just to support these restrictions imposed by the copyright fanatics.
 
Originally posted by: aidanjm
blue ray will also have HDCP, which will down scale content if you don't have a digital path to a monitor with HDCP built in

the only hope, as I see it, is if we can rip the hi def DVD content straight off the disc in its raw form, and descramble it and copy it to the hard drive with the copy protection removed.
Click to expand...

Or the right HDMI spec.....
 
Originally posted by: frankgomez75
Click to expand...

Most HDTV's today and previously do not display 1080P images anyway. The highest they go is 1080i. So you're really not losing 3/4 of the resolution. You lose about 1/2.[/quote]

True.... most sets are either 1080i or 720P.
Glad I bought a DLP

I still think it sucks.
Alot of early adopters are the reason HD has gotten a foothold and now they are screwing them over. These companies nee early adopters to help ensure the success of HD-DVD/BluRay, otherwise they will fail. IF early adopters are unable to display HD-DVD's and are forced to buy another large purchase just for HD-DVD/BluRay, they are not gonna be happy campers.

The first camp to drop this HDMI + HDCP requirement is the first camp to win the format war.[/quote]

Which 1080p DLP did you buy and how much?

In a few years I'd like to upgrade from our 32" LCD to a 50"+ LED DLP 1080p with 2 HDMI.
 
Originally posted by: frankgomez75
Click to expand...

Most HDTV's today and previously do not display 1080P images anyway. The highest they go is 1080i. So you're really not losing 3/4 of the resolution. You lose about 1/2.[/quote]

True.... most sets are either 1080i or 720P.
Glad I bought a DLP

I still think it sucks.
Alot of early adopters are the reason HD has gotten a foothold and now they are screwing them over. These companies nee early adopters to help ensure the success of HD-DVD/BluRay, otherwise they will fail. IF early adopters are unable to display HD-DVD's and are forced to buy another large purchase just for HD-DVD/BluRay, they are not gonna be happy campers.

The first camp to drop this HDMI requirement is the first camp to win the format war.[/quote]

Yep it sucks. That's part of being an early adopter though.

The company who will really win? A third-party that can create an box that will pass along the signal from HDMI to Component without the loss of resolution 🙂 Someone should really jump on that.
 
Actually what they need to do is scale the signal down to 1080i. That way older sets won't lose anything, because they couldn't display it anyways. Then any new set with HDMI will display the 1080p. Generally, sets that can display the 1080p will have HDMI anyways.
 
Originally posted by: LikeLinus
Originally posted by: frankgomez75
Click to expand...

Most HDTV's today and previously do not display 1080P images anyway. The highest they go is 1080i. So you're really not losing 3/4 of the resolution. You lose about 1/2.
Click to expand...

True.... most sets are either 1080i or 720P.
Glad I bought a DLP

I still think it sucks.
Alot of early adopters are the reason HD has gotten a foothold and now they are screwing them over. These companies nee early adopters to help ensure the success of HD-DVD/BluRay, otherwise they will fail. IF early adopters are unable to display HD-DVD's and are forced to buy another large purchase just for HD-DVD/BluRay, they are not gonna be happy campers.

The first camp to drop this HDMI requirement is the first camp to win the format war.[/quote]

Yep it sucks. That's part of being an early adopter though.

The company who will really win? A third-party that can create an box that will pass along the signal from HDMI to Component without the loss of resolution 🙂 Someone should really jump on that.[/quote]

There are already "DVI extenders" that strip HDCP, so it's already a non issue.

Viper GTS
 
Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Originally posted by: LikeLinus
Originally posted by: frankgomez75
Click to expand...

Most HDTV's today and previously do not display 1080P images anyway. The highest they go is 1080i. So you're really not losing 3/4 of the resolution. You lose about 1/2.
Click to expand...

True.... most sets are either 1080i or 720P.
Glad I bought a DLP

I still think it sucks.
Alot of early adopters are the reason HD has gotten a foothold and now they are screwing them over. These companies nee early adopters to help ensure the success of HD-DVD/BluRay, otherwise they will fail. IF early adopters are unable to display HD-DVD's and are forced to buy another large purchase just for HD-DVD/BluRay, they are not gonna be happy campers.

The first camp to drop this HDMI requirement is the first camp to win the format war.
Click to expand...

Yep it sucks. That's part of being an early adopter though.

The company who will really win? A third-party that can create an box that will pass along the signal from HDMI to Component without the loss of resolution 🙂 Someone should really jump on that.[/quote]

There are already "DVI extenders" that strip HDCP, so it's already a non issue.

Viper GTS[/quote]

I was not aware of that. Never had to research it because I have DVI and HDMI on my plasma. Great product though if they will work with these new players.
 
Originally posted by: LikeLinus
Actually what they need to do is scale the signal down to 1080i. That way older sets won't lose anything, because they couldn't display it anyways. Then any new set with HDMI will display the 1080p. Generally, sets that can display the 1080p will have HDMI anyways.
Click to expand...

except for all the folks who bought 24 inch Dells, thinking they were set up for the hi def content of the future
 
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: LikeLinus
Actually what they need to do is scale the signal down to 1080i. That way older sets won't lose anything, because they couldn't display it anyways. Then any new set with HDMI will display the 1080p. Generally, sets that can display the 1080p will have HDMI anyways.
Click to expand...

except for all the folks who bought 24 inch Dells, thinking they were set up for the hi def content of the future
Click to expand...

Computer monitors?
 
Originally posted by: LikeLinus
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: LikeLinus
Actually what they need to do is scale the signal down to 1080i. That way older sets won't lose anything, because they couldn't display it anyways. Then any new set with HDMI will display the 1080p. Generally, sets that can display the 1080p will have HDMI anyways.
Click to expand...

except for all the folks who bought 24 inch Dells, thinking they were set up for the hi def content of the future
Click to expand...

Computer monitors?
Click to expand...

HDCP is going to be an issue for PC's as soon as Vista is launched.

Again though HDCP is already being stripped, so I'm not too worried about it.

Viper GTS
 
Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Originally posted by: LikeLinus
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: LikeLinus
Actually what they need to do is scale the signal down to 1080i. That way older sets won't lose anything, because they couldn't display it anyways. Then any new set with HDMI will display the 1080p. Generally, sets that can display the 1080p will have HDMI anyways.
Click to expand...

except for all the folks who bought 24 inch Dells, thinking they were set up for the hi def content of the future
Click to expand...

Computer monitors?
Click to expand...

HDCP is going to be an issue for PC's as soon as Vista is launched.

Again though HDCP is already being stripped, so I'm not too worried about it.

Viper GTS
Click to expand...

Oh I know, but I don't think you can blame the DVD makers/Industry for not supporting a computer monitor you've purcahsed to use as a TV 🙂

We'll have to wait and see about what happens in the long run with Vista.
 
HDCP is also a software-configurable option. DVD manufacturers may choose not to enforce the HDCP restrictions on the first couple generations of next-gen DVDs in order to encourage more widespead adoption and to wait for HDCP-enabled equipment to become more commonplace. It may end up not being used at all.
 
I did until I just sold it for $750 (5 year old Mitsu that only did 1080i) 😀

Will be getting plasma soon.
 
Originally posted by: Apex
Originally posted by: Viper GTS

There are already "DVI extenders" that strip HDCP, so it's already a non issue.

Viper GTS
Click to expand...

Winnar.
Click to expand...

This is good to know.. now I gotta go google 🙂

Actually, I don't think I'll be backing up any HD-DVD's/BluRay discs until we get 1TB HD's. Considering a movie will prolly take up about 25GBs, I would run out of space on my PC after only 20 movies... wonder how we'll be able to archive our movies like we do know for HTPC's and streaming.
 
Originally posted by: LikeLinus
Actually what they need to do is scale the signal down to 1080i. That way older sets won't lose anything, because they couldn't display it anyways. Then any new set with HDMI will display the 1080p. Generally, sets that can display the 1080p will have HDMI anyways.
Click to expand...

As an early adopter with an integrated Mitsubishi HDTV that will display 1080i and only has component / firewire, I think this is a perfectly fair compromise.
 
Originally posted by: CPA
I did until I just sold it for $750 (5 year old Mitsu that only did 1080i) 😀

Will be getting plasma soon.
Click to expand...

aww, you didn't get the "promise" module that mistsubishi put out? "we promise your TV will never be obsolete for HD"

I don't recall much about it as I also have a 5 year old mits HDTV. But I "think" the module does HDCP and provided digital inputs.
 
Dads plasma has HDMI.

Don't blame the standards it's the INDUSTRY that wants all of this copy protection stuff.

Koing
 
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