Went to play with the Atrix (and some other phones)

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

I stopped by the AT&T store. I know I'm an Android hater or whatever so honestly I haven't played that much with the other phones. So I decided I'll sit down and play with them a bit to back up my Android hatred .

I sat down with the Atrix, Desire HD (sorry I don't know whatever AT&T calls it), and then the Captivate.

Atrix:

- Screen. QHD is nice. The Pentile is noticeable only if you look for it. Honestly, it's not a problem. I believe this is an IPS panel, and it looks pretty decent. I don't know about color accuracy. I think a lot of complaints might be overrated here. The damn iPhone 4 wasn't working in store so I couldnt' compare. I guess I could've compared to my iPod Touch 4G but that screen is not IPS.

- Speed. Ok, you all know how I bitch about choppy homescreens but whatever launcher Motorola uses is just terrible. It's choppy as hell. So I figured that maybe its Blur being slow as hell and all the widgets. I removed a few. Still stutters. I decided to install Launcher Pro. Surprisingly Launcher Pro was slow. So I restarted the phone.

Going on a tangent. The startup speed was slow. Something like my Milestone. Why does it take so long? I don't know. I like how iOS starts up in no time. Now this isn't really Android vs iOS because I've seen HTC and their Desire HD and Desire Z have 5 second startup times. In the time that I booted the Atrix, I bet I could've launched Windows XP on my desktop. Possibly Win 7 although today's motherboards seem to POST slower and add delay. But the pure OS loading part? Comparable to this Android phone.

Going back, once it restarted I'm glad it was ready to use. My Milestone takes a lot longer to load SD card and all my apps. Somehow, Launcher Pro was still slow. Now in retrospect, it might be the fact that Blur widgets are running in the background or Blur is running period. But seriously, we're not even getting full 30fps smoothness on this. It's jerky and it's disturbing.

Now I played with the browser next. Anandtech loads much faster than on my phone. Not buttery iOS smooth, but if Flash is the reason, then so be it. Google Maps loads wthout hesitation unlike my phone. Sometimes my phone will hang in Google Maps, but this is much better. Smooth, responsive, but in comparison to my iPod Touch, it's still not as responsive. I'm glad the new 3D view works VERY WELL on the Atrix though.

Going on a tangent again, I wonder whether the Atrix has full 60fps capabilities. Does the D2 and DX? I remember the D1 lacked it, so we had to hack it to give it 60fps, but I feel like the Atrix isn't running at a full 60 fps and when it is speeding, it feels like 30 fps.

4.0" screen is nice size though.

- Speedtest. Uhhh. Those HSPA+ claims are weird. I'm getting shit speeds. Left = Milestone/Droid 1 and Right = Atrix. Pardon the crap picture. iPod Touch 4G camera sucks. My Milestone is at a disadvantage because Speedtest.net thinks I'm in Arizona so its further away. But it should be an HSDPA 7.2mbps phone. I have no idea why the Atrix is struggling while my Milestone does fine. Software issue? I think this should be fixable.

Desire HD

- 4.3" screen is nice. Purplish tint just like with my Nexus One. Pixels are more noticeable. I'm still hesitant about getting a SGS II phone with this resolution. But perhaps pentile is making this AMOLED screen bad? SAMOLED Plus should be a bit better? We'll see.

I love the metal build. yeah I've played with an Evo 4G before plenty, so this is nice. A little big for my hands though. I wear medium sized gloves at work. I really do appreciate a solid seamless build. No creakiness is good. But it's also good that most plastic builds today aren't very creaky anymore. Wobbly sliders are still an issue though (lol at Desire Z/G2)

- But the smooth launcher is cool. HTC Sense might be a bit too much for everyone, but at least they make their launcher smooth. I really do appreciate what HTC has done with Sense. I might not use it, but I think for most non super enthusiasts buying the phone, HTC Sense is perfect for what they need to do. The copy and paste system is very good. Comparable to iOS. I might need more playing with Gingerbread to see how that compares.

Captivate:
- Nice screen. Nice colors. SAMOLED > HTC AMOLED for sure. Bluish tint is annoying though. I feel like the all black approach really takes away from the screen at times. The colors are exaggerated as with all AMOLED and I feel like it hides the inaccurate colors by using dark colors instead. Sure I understand dark also saves power.

- Smooth launcher of course is nice. Touchwiz is not as good as Sense, but decent. Perhaps Touchwiz 3.0 will be a step closer to tolerable?

summary: I would buy the Atrix if modders get on it and make progress, otherwise it looks like Galaxy S2 for me.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

Ive noticed the Android slowness on all non rooted/ROMed phones. Its pretty ridiculous all the bullshit all of the manufacturers put on their phones. I cringe every time I use a stock Evo. Its horrible.

 

[zoiks]

Ive noticed the Android slowness on all non rooted/ROMed phones. Its pretty ridiculous all the bullshit all of the manufacturers put on their phones. I cringe every time I use a stock Evo. Its horrible.

Would be a lot better if the Atrix was released with Gingerbread. It's a lot smoother and start up time has improved a lot.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Ok, you all know how I bitch about choppy homescreens but whatever launcher Motorola uses is just terrible. It's choppy as hell.

Are you comparing it to a WM7 or WebOS phone? Side by side next to the iPhone my Atrix is very clearly faster scrolling- are you looking for a slower UI with some blur effects added in? I also have a Galaxy S here and it is nowhere near as fast as the Atrix just talking about scrolling. For the record, using FPSCompare on a FP2141 SB-BK at 800x600 I have no problem double blinding 120Hz-150Hz and telling them apart easily. I don't know what you are looking for, but it seems to be animation related, not speed. Maybe it's just me, but side by side the Atrix is far faster with no stumbling in its' rate of transitions at all- yet you seem to like the by comparisons sake lethargic GalaxyS(or at least, like it better).

I have no idea why the Atrix is struggling while my Milestone does fine.

Down I'm clearing 3Mb easily, up is terrible ~200Kb, and latency is very bad.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Are you comparing it to a WM7 or WebOS phone? Side by side next to the iPhone my Atrix is very clearly faster scrolling- are you looking for a slower UI with some blur effects added in? I also have a Galaxy S here and it is nowhere near as fast as the Atrix just talking about scrolling. For the record, using FPSCompare on a FP2141 SB-BK at 800x600 I have no problem double blinding 120Hz-150Hz and telling them apart easily. I don't know what you are looking for, but it seems to be animation related, not speed. Maybe it's just me, but side by side the Atrix is far faster with no stumbling in its' rate of transitions at all- yet you seem to like the by comparisons sake lethargic GalaxyS(or at least, like it better).



Down I'm clearing 3Mb easily, up is terrible ~200Kb, and latency is very bad.

I compared the Atrix to my iPod Touch 4G and my Milestone which is a Droid 1 essentially. I was using the Atrix at the store which is obviously running BLUR. I have no idea why it was so slow so I installd Launcher Pro and rebooted.

Not sure what I was doing wrong. I'm talking about scrolling page to page on the launcher. The Atrix was beyond sluggish. On webpages, it was certainly faster than my Milestone and pretty similar to the Galaxy. But then again the Captivate was Flash-less. Google Maps it was faster than my Milestone, but somehow the responsiveness did not seem as good as the iPod Touch. Like there's a little delay between scrolling and the actual scrolling. My Milestone had both the delay and the choppiness.

 

[Judgement]

I bought the Atrix yesterday and in the 6+ speed tests I have ran at work or home since then I've probably averaged 2.5 down and 350 up. Most tests were over 3mb down but I did only hit 1500 once.

I have LauncherPro installed and never notice any stuttering when scrolling through launcher pages. In fact I havent seen it stutter when switching between multiple open games/apps etc yet. The one time I saw it stutter was when searching around in the marketplace and I had multiple apps downloading and installing in the background.

It does boot up more slowly than I would have expected, but I don't really ever turn my phone completely off anyway. If I did, I would definitely find that annoying.

IMO the screen is pretty sweet. Its not super AMOLED quality but the contrast/brightness etc are much more than adequate - and the higher resolution is very nice. I would probably say at this point that I would much prefer this screen @ it's higher resolution than a samsung display at their lower resolution. That could always change when the galaxy s2 comes out though..

I just got home from work, phone has been receiving moderate browsing/gaming/email/video use for about 12 hours now and the battery is at 35% so I am definitely please as far as that goes. I've only had it get one full charge at this point so I think the battery life might even get better after a couple more cycles of draining it all the way down and then charging it back to 100%.

I really kinda wish it was running 2.3 though... is android even utilizing the dual core processor in 2.2. I guess I could do a quick google search, but isnt that coming in 2.3 or is it 2.4?

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

I think you're right. I played with two more Atrixes at the Engadget meetup. All much faster than before. The Moto stock launcher was decent this time, although I suspect Launcher Pro is much faster.

We tried doign Vimeo on the webtop view but it really cant keep up. I still view the laptop dock/webview as a useless gimmick. If a phone is good enough and at 4" large, you should be able to do decent browsing. If I really need a desktop experience, I'll lug a laptop around with true horsepower. Otherwise, I see mobile browsing as sufficient.

But the scrolling was definitely faster. There was still a few slowdowns with blur widgets, but at least the thing wasn't slow.

Did a Speedtest in SF and I got 3mbps down, but sub 100kbps upload. Once again, must be a software issue. But then again SF sucks for AT&T. I did however note no problem in uploading to Twitpic via my Motorola Milestone, so I suspect that upload speeds should've been decent. I should've performed another side by side speedtest.

 

[MrX8503]

Just to be clear, speed and smoothness are two different things. People get these two mixed up and interchange them all the time.

For example if I'm doing an animation in flash at 15fps vs 30fps. A ball animation in the 30fps will be smoother. Even if I made the 15fps ball travel faster, it's not smoother than the 30fps ball. Speed is not smoothness and vice versa.

I'm not saying the OP is confused on the terminology I can just see where the convo is headed.

Android is fast but speed alone is not going to give you an intuitive responsive UI. What the OP is talking about is "stutter" and no amount of speed will fix that.

 

[shortylickens]

Ive noticed the Android slowness on all non rooted/ROMed phones. Its pretty ridiculous all the bullshit all of the manufacturers put on their phones. I cringe every time I use a stock Evo. Its horrible.

The Droid has absolutely nothing extra installed. Which is weird cuz its on Verizon.
Though I wouldnt argue that rooting may speed it up still.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

Android is fast but speed alone is not going to give you an intuitive responsive UI. What the OP is talking about is "stutter" and no amount of speed will fix that.

Likewise being smooth has absolutely nothing to do with a UI being intuitive.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Ive noticed the Android slowness on all non rooted/ROMed phones. Its pretty ridiculous all the bullshit all of the manufacturers put on their phones. I cringe every time I use a stock Evo. Its horrible.

After rooting a couple of EVO's I have to agree, I really don't understand why they're not optimized by the manufacturers...

Did one for a co-worker recently and she loves it over stock. I grab her phone every few days and am impressed with how she has it set up.

 

[foghorn67]

Likewise being smooth has absolutely nothing to do with a UI being intuitive.

He's using big words. Go easy on him.

 

[MrX8503]

Likewise being smooth has absolutely nothing to do with a UI being intuitive.

True, but I would say the iPhone does a better job at having both speed and smoothness. When I say intuitive I'm referring to how the UI feels like an extension of your finger. It reacts the way you think it would react. I've seen people fumble with the Android UI because they didn't mean to swipe something or press something.

This is the difference between finesse and a clunker.

I've read so many comments from users who claim xyz smartphone is fast or smooth, but when I use it for myself, its a piece of junk.

 

[foghorn67]

True, but I would say the iPhone does a better job at having both speed and smoothness. When I say intuitive I'm referring to how the UI feels like an extension of your finger. It reacts the way you think it would react. I've seen people fumble with the Android UI because they didn't mean to swipe something or press something.

This is the difference between finesse and a clunker.

I've read so many comments from users who claim xyz smartphone is fast or smooth, but when I use it for myself, its a piece of junk.

Honestly. My EVO is an aging phone. But with Launcher Pro on there, it never stutters. Okay only when apps are installing in the background it does stutter (you decide when to install or update apps, mind you). But this phone is smooth, fast and intuitive.
Everything is instant and "right now".
I'm really sick of the mentality that only xyz phone is smooth.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

Honestly. My EVO is an aging phone. But with Launcher Pro on there, it never stutters. Okay only when apps are installing in the background it does stutter (you decide when to install or update apps, mind you). But this phone is smooth, fast and intuitive.
Everything is instant and "right now".
I'm really sick of the mentality that only xyz phone is smooth.

Agreed. I'm running the TouchWiz GTG launcher (TouchWiz without the fail) on my Captivate and it's stutter free. I don't see how Android isn't intuitive either, with a few brief instructions I've seen people who have never used a smartphone before and aren't enthusiasts be able to pick up and use a Android phone without a problem.

 

[s44]

Agreed. I'm running the TouchWiz GTG launcher (TouchWiz without the fail) on my Captivate and it's stutter free.

This has nothing to do with the flame war, but check out the Fascinate app forum: a guy there has done some further improvements to GTG's work. Should be compatible with all SGS models on Froyo.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

This has nothing to do with the flame war, but check out the Fascinate app forum: a guy there has done some further improvements to GTG's work. Should be compatible with all SGS models on Froyo.

That is nice. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Honestly. My EVO is an aging phone. But with Launcher Pro on there, it never stutters. Okay only when apps are installing in the background it does stutter (you decide when to install or update apps, mind you). But this phone is smooth, fast and intuitive.
Everything is instant and "right now".
I'm really sick of the mentality that only xyz phone is smooth.

Yep, a 1ghz Android phone with some tweaks is pretty slick, I have iOS and Android devices, and I really love my rooted and rom'd EVO. If the iPhone had a bigger screen, I would consider it, but I'm not going back to a smaller screen, ever...

 

[foghorn67]

Yep, a 1ghz Android phone with some tweaks is pretty slick, I have iOS and Android devices, and I really love my rooted and rom'd EVO. If the iPhone had a bigger screen, I would consider it, but I'm not going back to a smaller screen, ever...

I hope Apple makes the screen size for the iPhone5 a little bit bigger.
They have wasted real estate on the top of the phone. Huge (relatively) border could be cropped a bit.

 

[MrX8503]

Honestly. My EVO is an aging phone. But with Launcher Pro on there, it never stutters. Okay only when apps are installing in the background it does stutter (you decide when to install or update apps, mind you). But this phone is smooth, fast and intuitive.
Everything is instant and "right now".
I'm really sick of the mentality that only xyz phone is smooth.

I did have an EVO before and I was satisfied with the responsive somewhat. The only reason I ended up returning it was because of the blasted 30fps cap. I think I would be happy with it now with all the recent tweaks but Sprint only has a 30 day window.

 

[ew915]

the problem with android phones is that if it doesn't work right out of the box, then is probably never going to be fixed.

 

[zerocool84]

the problem with android phones is that if it doesn't work right out of the box, then is probably never going to be fixed.

What are you talking about? Google has fixed most of the issues Android has ever had.

 

[kamikazekyle]

What are you talking about? Google has fixed most of the issues Android has ever had.

I think he's talking about how some devices don't get the latest Android release because the OEM (or carrier) doesn't want to support it with updates or is slow on delivering. At least, that's what I got from the comment.

 

[BenSkywalker]

If you have a screen that is 640 pixels wide and you need to scroll 3/4s of the screen you need to move 480 pixels. If you want that transition to take one second then you need to move your object eight pixels per frame on most modern cell phones. Obviously that would be painfully slow with even 0.5 seconds being sluggish for cells whuich would give you 16 pixels per frame. If you move it any faster, the 'jerk' from one position to the next is going to be larger. The faster you want your transitions to be, the more each frame of animation is going to jerk. This isn't a point you can spin, or really argue. The faster the screen transitions, the more pixels every individual frame will jerk.

There are a few of ways that you could make this less of an issue. One is to use blurring on your images to make the animation smoother. This will consumer process cycles and battery time. Another option would be to slow the UI down enough that you wouldn't need to skip pixels. For most people, myself included, this would be painfully slow. A third option would be to use the slowest display technology available which would give you free blurring(IPS). Conversely using the fastest display tech would make this most evident(OLED) with TN falling somewhere in the middle.

I'm not entirely sure what some people mean when they talk about UI responsiveness, for me it is always speed. Based on some comments I get the impression that it is about how constant the transitions are(slow and constant would appear to be smoother then fast and erratic of course). Still others give the impression that the logo on the phone determines UI smoothness entirely and explicitly.

 

[ew915]

What are you talking about? Google has fixed most of the issues Android has ever had.

Yeah google fixes it, but your phone will take 6 months to get it, and even then you are probably so pissed off that you want a new phone.
Android UI has always run slow and has made the impression that if you want iOS or WP7 experience you would need to get the latest and baddest phone.

I think he's talking about how some devices don't get the latest Android release because the OEM (or carrier) doesn't want to support it with updates or is slow on delivering. At least, that's what I got from the comment.

Thats exactly right, you want the new android version, you better off getting a new phone. Even the Atrix is released with 2.2 which is a shame, gingerbread has been out for almost 3 months.