Went to dealership for oil change and they sure tried to stick it to me

[WackyDan]

If i had a newish car I wouldn't touch those fluids either unless there was a system compramise. whenever i got a used car though I would change all fluids, not take it anywere to get flushed but just drained and refill.. except power-steering, its not as convienynt, or critical.

after that though i don't touchm either if the systems not compromised, brake fluid though i will bleed any time i do the brakes, not the hole system just to clean out the abused fluid in the calipers and wheel cylinders. Topping it off that way also helps maintain it, as the older fluid accumulates moisture.

Abused brake fluid is only in the calipers and wheel cylinders... That's a new one.

 

[jolancer]

Abused brake fluid is only in the calipers and wheel cylinders... That's a new one.

Yes, indeed a lot of things will be new for you the day after birth. And don't try and ride me, thats what your mother and sister are for.

I try and keep posts short without going into unneccesary detail, however i don't mind insulting back if you choose to turn your lack of interpretation and experience into ignorant drunkn insults.

..the fluid at the caliper take the brunt of the heat cycles stress, and the caliper lines are shaped like an S trap to prevent air or contaminents from reaching other components.. master cylinder or ABS in newer cars.

EDIT: Sorry, forgot this probably isnt obvious to infants so... the caliper and cylinder boots and bleeder valves are points of intrution or compramise as apposed to the rest of the line as sealed(no moving parts), even in the slightest over long periods of time, older vehicles and hardware especially

Keep the personal attacks out of the garage. -Admin DrPizza

 

[imagoon]

Sorry, forgot this probably isnt obvious to infants so... the caliper and cylinder boots and bleeder valves are points of intrution or compramise as apposed to the rest of the line as sealed(no moving parts), even in the slightest over long periods of time, older vehicles and hardware especially

Yes... as in the master cylinder seals, reservoir seals, ABS pumps among other possible places in the system. Just changing what is in the caliper doesn't make any sense. There is a reason why the fluid up top turns brown just like the fluid down in the calipers. (Water. Dot 3/4 specifically.) As the brakes wear that fluid in the line also moves down to the caliper. It certainly does have moving parts in the line, the fluid is the moving part. Water contamination can destroy the lines from the inside out also.

That is why it is a "new one." It doesn't make any sense. Add on your degrading post and you expect anyone to take you seriously?

 

[Via]

I'm sorry to say I do not got to my local Honda dealership anymore. It's so unbelievably expensive. I just got my brakes done at Midas for about 1/2 of what the dealership wanted to charge me.

I don't think they try to screw me in the literal sense of the word. I think it's more due to the "cult of Honda" that won't won't get their Hondas serviced anywhere but the dealership. That steady stream of work gives them the leeway to inflate their prices.

 

[JimKiler]

Did that profit include the hold back?

No idea since as usual media spouts statistics without context and we are left wondering questions like yours.

 

[JulesMaximus]

To the OP.....that's not bad.

We went to a Lexus dealer to get a key cut for our GX 470. When it was delivered back to us, the service rep. came out and said the GX had horrible exhaust leaks on both manifolds....and was dangerous to drive. (Never mind it was quiet as a church mouse when running.....exhaust leaks aren't quiet.)

We said thanks and left. Three days later, a Toyota dealer was unable to find any exhaust leak anywhere, even after I advised them the Lexus dealer found both exhaust manifolds leaking massively and dangerously. Just makes one wonder.

We've had good luck with our Lexus dealer. They've never tried to screw us over on unnecessary maintenance. We bought the car there and we have always had it serviced there throughout the time we've owned it.

 

[JulesMaximus]

If i had a newish car I wouldn't touch those fluids either unless there was a system compramise. whenever i got a used car though I would change all fluids, not take it anywere to get flushed but just drained and refill.. except power-steering, its not as convienynt, or critical.

after that though i don't touchm either if the systems not compromised, brake fluid though i will bleed any time i do the brakes, not the hole system just to clean out the abused fluid in the calipers and wheel cylinders. Topping it off that way also helps maintain it, as the older fluid accumulates moisture.

You should see the brake/clutch fluid in my Ducati. I have to change it every year as it gets really dark and the rear brake has a tendency to get spongy if I don't change it that often. And by dark, I mean you see it in the reservoir, not just at the caliper.

Point is that it isn't just at the caliper, fluid moves around in the system so if you have contamination in the system it is best to refresh all the fluid in the system, not just what is in the caliper. I would follow the manufacturer's recommendations to the letter. If they say to renew the brake fluid every 60,000 miles I would do it.

 

[phucheneh]

The fluid in the master cyl reservoir gets dark because of stresses experienced at the wheels. Degradation of fluid is certainly not something that is contained to the wheels.

But it still doesn't make it much of a maintenance item. An untouched system can and should last the life of the car without a hydraulic failure. Wheel cylinders are really the only common problem spot, and I dunno that fluid changes are going to make much difference there.

The single most common replacement item is brake calipers, and that's probably 95% in error. Or just because a shop wants to make some money...at indy shops, you're gonna get some solid markup on a remanned caliper, and charged a decent bit of labor for what is a pretty quick fix. Probably an extra hour labor on top of a brake job, and all you have to do is remove one extra bolt (the hose), and if you're good, you don't even have to do a real bleed. Prefill the new caliper, get the hose swapped over quickly, and at most, you'll just need to do a quick gravity bleed at that wheel.

And the real problem was nothing but gunked-up caliper slides. As in, those things that should be cleaned and relubed at every brake job if the mechanic isn't lazy.

 

[jolancer]

Yes... as in the master cylinder seals, reservoir seals, ABS pumps among other possible places in the system.

those are exceptions, not the average cause of failure.. really worth mentioning any of that?

..how many master cylinder failures have u seen in contrast to caliper failures? the master cylinder is on the opposite end not contacting the rolling infurno when brakes applied. The seals and orifice at the top are smaller and robust. Don't often fail and when they do, usually its because of manufacture defect or untrained greasemonkey error. the internal ABS pump seals arn't going to leak externally or stop your brakes from functioning... they will however put a damper on your braking fun if bleed improperly.

There is a reason why the fluid up top turns brown just like the fluid down in the calipers. (Water. Dot 3/4 specifically.) Water contamination can destroy the lines from the inside out also.

Same as above. not worth mentioning, unless we're just tying to make people stop reading... I don't know about you but when i see a thread with a post as long as an autobiogrophy without anything readily usefull in the first paragraph, i just leave.

..fluid color may very from vehicle make/type, fluid color can indicate a problem, but not all the time. If you have excesive contamination or moisture in the lines, that is a broken system... you could keep flushing it, or you could get it fixed and not keep flushing it. Either way i was refering to non-broken systems in my original post.

As the brakes wear that fluid in the line also moves down to the caliper. It certainly does have moving parts in the line, the fluid is the moving part.

I don't pretend to assume i know how far the fluid can circulate within reason on a closed manual hydrolic system like that. There are obvious circulation limitations if you've ever seen a system thats been compromized, contamination does not spread throught the entire system. I'm not refering to 'color', just because theres 'color' doesn't indicate compromise, theres many other reasons for color... And I'm not throwing out a bias opinion, my car is nearly 2 decades old and i rarely do brake work to it, but when i do the brake fluid comes out looking clean, I havn't checked the master cylinder in over ~3yrs now but last time I did it didn't change much in color either. I would not worry if it did though..within reason.

That is why it is a "new one." It doesn't make any sense. Add on your degrading post and you expect anyone to take you seriously?

No that was for yours truely, you can ignore my posts i dont care.

 

[imagoon]

those are exceptions, not the average cause of failure.. really worth mentioning any of that?

..how many master cylinder failures have u seen in contrast to caliper failures? the master cylinder is on the opposite end not contacting the rolling infurno when brakes applied. The seals and orifice at the top are smaller and robust. Don't often fail and when they do, usually its because of manufacture defect or untrained greasemonkey error. the internal ABS pump seals arn't going to leak externally or stop your brakes from functioning... they will however put a damper on your braking fun if bleed improperly.



Same as above. not worth mentioning, unless we're just tying to make people stop reading... I don't know about you but when i see a thread with a post as long as an autobiogrophy without anything readily usefull in the first paragraph, i just leave.

..fluid color may very from vehicle make/type, fluid color can indicate a problem, but not all the time. If you have excesive contamination or moisture in the lines, that is a broken system... you could keep flushing it, or you could get it fixed and not keep flushing it. Either way i was refering to non-broken systems in my original post.



I don't pretend to assume i know how far the fluid can circulate within reason on a closed manual hydrolic system like that. There are obvious circulation limitations if you've ever seen a system thats been compromized, contamination does not spread throught the entire system. I'm not refering to 'color', just because theres 'color' doesn't indicate compromise, theres many other reasons for color... And I'm not throwing out a bias opinion, my car is nearly 2 decades old and i rarely do brake work to it, but when i do the brake fluid comes out looking clean, I havn't checked the master cylinder in over ~3yrs now but last time I did it didn't change much in color either. I would not worry if it did though..within reason.



No that was for yours truely, you can ignore my posts i dont care.

After all of that, it still doesn't make any sense to only bleed and change the fluid in the calipers. You never mentioned system failures only "fluid wear" which I think you meant was fluid break down. The master cylinder and ABS pumps are pistons, not unlike the caliper, they also wear the fluid, in the sense of molecular shearing etc.

Also here is some food for though. A typical master cylinder piston 18mm Diameter, 42mm travel like the one on my desk here. Total movement volume for that cylinder is 42768mm^3. I bought and didn't use 3 meters of 1mm inner diameter tubing to replace a punctured line on the front passenger side of a random dodge caravan. The entire volume of that line is 9429mm^3. I didn't use it all but I didn't measure it either. I didn't replace the maybe 20cm of line from the Master to the balancer valve. Assuming a 60/40 that means that the front lines would get 25660mm^3 of the fluid with 50% hitting each brake leaving 12830mm^3 of fluid to go to that brake/caliper. Since the line is 9429mm^3 that means that 3401mm^3 more fluid than the capacity of the line when flows down that line in a hard braking moment. In a hard brake is not to much to assume that 3401mm^3 of fluid now in the master came from the caliper piston well.

That 3401mm^3 of fluid mixes with the existing fluid and now goes in and out of the lines and balancer valves.

After all that it seem prudent to just replace and bleed the entire system, rather than mixing old fluid with new.