Wendy?s Acts to Bypass City Order on Calories

[Amused]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
Amused, why are you opposed to disclosure of nutritional information to customers?

I don't think his "beef" (heh) is so much with the disclosure as it is with the way the law is.

They ALREADY HAD disclosed the info. And they are being penalized further in the future for voluntarily disclosing it.

Exactly.

Nice assumption, mercanucaribe. But why would you make such a stupid assumption?

It's absurd to put calorie info in such a limited MARKETING space on items that are wildly customizable, and put the calories for every option available.

Wendy's, McDonald's and most other fast food places have their nutritional info available in MANY forms, and easy for the customer to access. From wall hangers, to online, to tray inserts, to pamphlets at the counter.

To ask them to put it on the menu board is absurd. The menu board is for marketing items to the consumer. Marketing research shows the more cluttered a menu board, the more confused and frustrated a customer is. If you haven't noticed, menu boards have become more and more simple over the years for this very reason.

If you're too gawd damned stupid to get the info from the easily available means, you're too gawd damned stupid to be able to do anything constructive with the info.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: hanoverphist

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Amused
Most Wendy's and McDonald's are franchises owned by small business men/families who are not rich by any means.

Really? Have you've tried to open one these franchises?

You have nearly a million dollars lying around to do so?

Actually, Dave. I have, and do own a franchise. When I started I was no where near "rich." In fact, for the first 10 years I made under 30K a year. My managers made more than me.

my family tossed the idea of opening a taco bell in payson (a small town here) that didnt have one yet, and could have done it but they didnt want to commit to the 3 mil in assets that the parent corp wanted. that was 20 years ago, i cringe to think what that commit is now

That's all I was saying, the OP made it sound like anyone can open a major franchise with money just lying around the house.

Dave, it's called saving, and getting a small business loan.

You are the epitome of this quite:

"Since time immemorial and pre-industrial, 'greed' has been the accusation hurled at the rich by the concrete-bound illiterates who were unable to conceive of the source of wealth or of the motivation of those who produce it." - Rand

Guess what, Dave? I started out with nothing. Not a damn cent to my name when I quit drugs as a teen and joined the Army. No family money, no hand outs. Now I'm a business owner.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: hanoverphist

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Amused
Most Wendy's and McDonald's are franchises owned by small business men/families who are not rich by any means.

Really? Have you've tried to open one these franchises?

You have nearly a million dollars lying around to do so?

Actually, Dave. I have, and do own a franchise. When I started I was no where near "rich." In fact, for the first 10 years I made under 30K a year. My managers made more than me.

my family tossed the idea of opening a taco bell in payson (a small town here) that didnt have one yet, and could have done it but they didnt want to commit to the 3 mil in assets that the parent corp wanted. that was 20 years ago, i cringe to think what that commit is now

That's all I was saying, the OP made it sound like anyone can open a major franchise with money just lying around the house.

Dave, it's called saving, and getting a small business loan.

You are the epitome of this quite:

"Since time immemorial and pre-industrial, 'greed' has been the accusation hurled at the rich by the concrete-bound illiterates who were unable to conceive of the source of wealth or of the motivation of those who produce it." - Rand

Guess what, Dave? I started out with nothing. Not a damn cent to my name when I quit drugs as a teen and joined the Army. No family money, no hand outs. Now I'm a business owner.

Like I said, nice and good for you but you didn;t do it on your own.

You said right there, you got a business loan. Somebody liked you.

Like I said, good for you. Not everyone is so lucky especially these days.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: hanoverphist

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Amused
Most Wendy's and McDonald's are franchises owned by small business men/families who are not rich by any means.

Really? Have you've tried to open one these franchises?

You have nearly a million dollars lying around to do so?

Actually, Dave. I have, and do own a franchise. When I started I was no where near "rich." In fact, for the first 10 years I made under 30K a year. My managers made more than me.

my family tossed the idea of opening a taco bell in payson (a small town here) that didnt have one yet, and could have done it but they didnt want to commit to the 3 mil in assets that the parent corp wanted. that was 20 years ago, i cringe to think what that commit is now

That's all I was saying, the OP made it sound like anyone can open a major franchise with money just lying around the house.

Dave, it's called saving, and getting a small business loan.

You are the epitome of this quite:

"Since time immemorial and pre-industrial, 'greed' has been the accusation hurled at the rich by the concrete-bound illiterates who were unable to conceive of the source of wealth or of the motivation of those who produce it." - Rand

Guess what, Dave? I started out with nothing. Not a damn cent to my name when I quit drugs as a teen and joined the Army. No family money, no hand outs. Now I'm a business owner.

Like I said, nice and good for you but you didn;t do it on your own.

You said right there, you got a business loan. Somebody liked you.

Like I said, good for you. Not everyone is so lucky especially these days.

My business loan had nothing to do with luck, Dave. It had to do with hard work, an education and planning. "Somebody liked me" because I presented them with a low risk because of my planning, education and hard work.

Dave do yourself a favor and stop blaming everyone else for your inability to succeed. I did that the minute I quit getting high and never looked back.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Like I said, nice and good for you but you didn;t do it on your own.

You said right there, you got a business loan. Somebody liked you.

Like I said, good for you. Not everyone is so lucky especially these days.

How is getting a business loan "lucky"?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: hanoverphist

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Amused
Most Wendy's and McDonald's are franchises owned by small business men/families who are not rich by any means.

Really? Have you've tried to open one these franchises?

You have nearly a million dollars lying around to do so?

Actually, Dave. I have, and do own a franchise. When I started I was no where near "rich." In fact, for the first 10 years I made under 30K a year. My managers made more than me.

my family tossed the idea of opening a taco bell in payson (a small town here) that didnt have one yet, and could have done it but they didnt want to commit to the 3 mil in assets that the parent corp wanted. that was 20 years ago, i cringe to think what that commit is now

That's all I was saying, the OP made it sound like anyone can open a major franchise with money just lying around the house.

Dave, it's called saving, and getting a small business loan.

You are the epitome of this quite:

"Since time immemorial and pre-industrial, 'greed' has been the accusation hurled at the rich by the concrete-bound illiterates who were unable to conceive of the source of wealth or of the motivation of those who produce it." - Rand

Guess what, Dave? I started out with nothing. Not a damn cent to my name when I quit drugs as a teen and joined the Army. No family money, no hand outs. Now I'm a business owner.

Like I said, nice and good for you but you didn;t do it on your own.

You said right there, you got a business loan. Somebody liked you.

Like I said, good for you. Not everyone is so lucky especially these days.

My business loan had nothing to do with luck, Dave. It had to do with hard work, an education and planning. "Somebody liked me" because I presented them with a low risk because of my planning, education and hard work.

Dave do yourself a favor and stop blaming everyone else for your inability to succeed. I did that the minute I quit getting high and never looked back.

Did I blame anyone for anything?

I was mearly pointing out the flaw in the statement that anyone could open a major franchise as easily as you made it out to be.

Good for you getting off brain cell altering substances BTW

 

[TheAdvocate]

Originally posted by: Amused
Dave, it's called saving, and getting a small business loan.

To get your Subway shop, perhaps, but I know for a fact that in the mid-90's you would not even be considered for a McDonald's franchise without a $1m equity investment. That cannot be borrowed money. So, you did get lucky finding a successful franchise opportunity that would let you borrow your "equity" portion. Subway took off. Others like Schlotsky's have died off, or didnt even see 3 years of operation.

Don't just glaze over what the Taco Bell guy above said - the proven franchises require substantial financial clout to land. And the operating agreements are viciously territorial.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: hanoverphist

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Amused
Most Wendy's and McDonald's are franchises owned by small business men/families who are not rich by any means.

Really? Have you've tried to open one these franchises?

You have nearly a million dollars lying around to do so?

Actually, Dave. I have, and do own a franchise. When I started I was no where near "rich." In fact, for the first 10 years I made under 30K a year. My managers made more than me.

my family tossed the idea of opening a taco bell in payson (a small town here) that didnt have one yet, and could have done it but they didnt want to commit to the 3 mil in assets that the parent corp wanted. that was 20 years ago, i cringe to think what that commit is now

That's all I was saying, the OP made it sound like anyone can open a major franchise with money just lying around the house.

Dave, it's called saving, and getting a small business loan.

You are the epitome of this quite:

"Since time immemorial and pre-industrial, 'greed' has been the accusation hurled at the rich by the concrete-bound illiterates who were unable to conceive of the source of wealth or of the motivation of those who produce it." - Rand

Guess what, Dave? I started out with nothing. Not a damn cent to my name when I quit drugs as a teen and joined the Army. No family money, no hand outs. Now I'm a business owner.

Like I said, nice and good for you but you didn;t do it on your own.

You said right there, you got a business loan. Somebody liked you.

Like I said, good for you. Not everyone is so lucky especially these days.

My business loan had nothing to do with luck, Dave. It had to do with hard work, an education and planning. "Somebody liked me" because I presented them with a low risk because of my planning, education and hard work.

Dave do yourself a favor and stop blaming everyone else for your inability to succeed. I did that the minute I quit getting high and never looked back.

Did I blame anyone for anything?

I was mearly pointing out the flaw in the statement that anyone could open a major franchise as easily as you made it out to be.

Good for you getting off brain cell altering substances BTW

Dave, if I can do it, anyone with an average or better intelligence can do it. You just need to plan for it from the beginning.

I had a gas station job while I was waiting to go to basic. There, the owner's father asked me what I had in mind to make money. I told him about the army. He said, "No, that's earning a living. You can either earn a living, or make money. You'll never make money working for someone else."

I took that to heart and from the beginning I planned it so I could own my own business. From my education, to planning, to saving, to hard work... it all had one end.

Luck had nothing to do with it.

Thanks for the compliment. I got wrapped up in the drug crazed 80s in high school in CA. When my friends started dying or going to jail, and my mother kicked me out of the house, I realized I had to do something.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate

Originally posted by: Amused
Dave, it's called saving, and getting a small business loan.

To get your Subway shop, perhaps, but I know for a fact that in the mid-90's you would not even be considered for a McDonald's franchise without a $1m equity investment. That cannot be borrowed money. So, you did get lucky finding a successful franchise opportunity that would let you borrow your "equity" portion. Subway took off. Others like Schlotsky's have died off, or didnt even see 3 years of operation.

Don't just glaze over what the Taco Bell guy above said - the proven franchises require substantial financial clout to land. And the operating agreements are viciously territorial.

If you want a larger franchise, you work your way up to it by owning smaller businesses and making investments.

I'm not glazing over anything. It's hard work and you have to learn to live well below your means for years so you can reinvest your income into the business. But to claim one has to start rich is absurd.

Could I own McDonald's stores now if I wanted to? Yes. But I had to work hard to get here. There are many smaller franchise and business opportunities you can start with.

People's problem is this: They all see the end result and want to start there.

 

[glutenberg]

it's amazing how off-topic this thread went. Good for you Amused on your success, by the way. It's nice to see that hard work can still pay dividends.

 

[Tobolo]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
Amused, why are you opposed to disclosure of nutritional information to customers?

The issue is not the posting. Its the fact the big chain places already posted nutritional information and they are being penalized for doing it. If the law stated that ALL restaurants had to provide that information then there would be no problem. But instead only applies to those that had volunteered the information to begin with.

 

[Tobolo]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
Calorie testing is not easy or cheap. I think I remember reading that it can cost upwards of $10,000 an item to have proper testing done to document it's calorie content.

Depends on what your talking about. They do it in the next building and if your talking about a three course meal then sure. But for one item of decent size its not that bad.

Cant disclose how bad though.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: glutenberg
it's amazing how off-topic this thread went. Good for you Amused on your success, by the way. It's nice to see that hard work can still pay dividends.

Thank you.

BTW, It's not that I have never failed... because I have. It's that I never gave up because I failed. The most successful people have failed many times, sometimes far more than most people.

Again, luck has nothing to do with it.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: glutenberg
it's amazing how off-topic this thread went. Good for you Amused on your success, by the way. It's nice to see that hard work can still pay dividends.

Thank you.

BTW, It's not that I have never failed... because I have. It's that I never gave up because I failed. The most successful people have failed many times, sometimes far more than most people.

Again, luck has nothing to do with it.

It's not luck but timing. Timing can truly make or break a business.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: glutenberg
it's amazing how off-topic this thread went. Good for you Amused on your success, by the way. It's nice to see that hard work can still pay dividends.

Thank you.

BTW, It's not that I have never failed... because I have. It's that I never gave up because I failed. The most successful people have failed many times, sometimes far more than most people.

Again, luck has nothing to do with it.

It's not luck but timing. Timing can truly make or break a business.

Timing, location and the hardest part: Finding good employees. I would say 90% of my failures comes from the employment issues.

It's all a lot of hard work and planning.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Tobolo

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
Amused, why are you opposed to disclosure of nutritional information to customers?

The issue is not the posting. Its the fact the big chain places already posted nutritional information and they are being penalized for doing it. If the law stated that ALL restaurants had to provide that information then there would be no problem. But instead only applies to those that had volunteered the information to begin with.

The reason it only applies to restaurants that had already offered the information voluntarily is because it would create an unreasonable burden on small restaurants (because the testing is expensive). IIRC the law originally applied to restaurants with 5 or more locations, apparently they changed that for whatever reason.

The only issue I have is that the text has to be the same size as the name of the product. As long as it is readable from the counter by someone with 20/20 vision, I think that should be good enough.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Tobolo

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
Amused, why are you opposed to disclosure of nutritional information to customers?

The issue is not the posting. Its the fact the big chain places already posted nutritional information and they are being penalized for doing it. If the law stated that ALL restaurants had to provide that information then there would be no problem. But instead only applies to those that had volunteered the information to begin with.

The reason it only applies to restaurants that had already offered the information voluntarily is because it would create an unreasonable burden on small restaurants (because the testing is expensive). IIRC the law originally applied to restaurants with 5 or more locations, apparently they changed that for whatever reason.

The only issue I have is that the text has to be the same size as the name of the product. As long as it is readable from the counter by someone with 20/20 vision, I think that should be good enough.

Like I said earlier in the thread:

It's absurd to put calorie info in such a limited MARKETING space on items that are wildly customizable, and put the calories for every option available.

Wendy's, McDonald's and most other fast food places have their nutritional info available in MANY forms, and easy for the customer to access. From wall hangers, to online, to tray inserts, to pamphlets at the counter. Hell, many have ALL of these.

To ask them to put it on the menu board is absurd. The menu board is for marketing items to the consumer. Marketing research shows the more cluttered a menu board, the more confused and frustrated a customer is. If you haven't noticed, menu boards have become more and more simple over the years for this very reason.

If you're too gawd damned stupid to get the info from the easily available means, you're too gawd damned stupid to be able to do anything constructive with the info.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Tobolo

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
Amused, why are you opposed to disclosure of nutritional information to customers?

The issue is not the posting. Its the fact the big chain places already posted nutritional information and they are being penalized for doing it. If the law stated that ALL restaurants had to provide that information then there would be no problem. But instead only applies to those that had volunteered the information to begin with.

The reason it only applies to restaurants that had already offered the information voluntarily is because it would create an unreasonable burden on small restaurants (because the testing is expensive). IIRC the law originally applied to restaurants with 5 or more locations, apparently they changed that for whatever reason.

The only issue I have is that the text has to be the same size as the name of the product. As long as it is readable from the counter by someone with 20/20 vision, I think that should be good enough.

Like I said earlier in the thread:

It's absurd to put calorie info in such a limited MARKETING space on items that are wildly customizable, and put the calories for every option available.

Wendy's, McDonald's and most other fast food places have their nutritional info available in MANY forms, and easy for the customer to access. From wall hangers, to online, to tray inserts, to pamphlets at the counter. Hell, many have ALL of these.

To ask them to put it on the menu board is absurd. The menu board is for marketing items to the consumer. Marketing research shows the more cluttered a menu board, the more confused and frustrated a customer is. If you haven't noticed, menu boards have become more and more simple over the years for this very reason.

If you're too gawd damned stupid to get the info from the easily available means, you're too gawd damned stupid to be able to do anything constructive with the info.

Hell if you are worried about nutrition and calories just do youself a favor and avoid all Fast Food Joints and most Restuarants.

 

[TheAdvocate]

Whatever amused.

You've completely overshot the discussion here. All this is about is putting a warning label on food like cigarettes have. Whether or not it works is dependent on the true addictiveness of fast food, which is probably why this approach is being taken. Someone wants to see if the rationalization for addiction phenomenon is the same.

Interesting psych project.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate
Whatever amused.

You've completely overshot the discussion here. All this is about is putting a warning label on food like cigarettes have. Whether or not it works is dependent on the true addictiveness of fast food, which is probably why this approach is being taken. Someone wants to see if the rationalization for addiction phenomenon is the same.

Interesting psych project.

Food is not addictive.

Experiment with your own business... not the livelihoods of others.

It's an absurd law.

The information is there. If you're too damn stupid to find it right in front of you, you're probably too damn stupid to do anything constructive with it.

And this is funny, since you claimed to be a libertarian to me in another thread. :roll:

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate
Whatever amused.

You've completely overshot the discussion here. All this is about is putting a warning label on food like cigarettes have. Whether or not it works is dependent on the true addictiveness of fast food, which is probably why this approach is being taken. Someone wants to see if the rationalization for addiction phenomenon is the same.

Interesting psych project.

Did you even read the article?

They already voluntarily provided nutritional information through posters and pamplets in the store. And the lawmakers through their infinite wisdom decided to penalize early adopters even further because of it. Along with it, they would have been required to put all of nutritional info on new menus and order boards.

At what point is enough enough? Before you are allowed to pay, you have to sign a waver consenting that you know you are eating 900 calories of food?

It was a very poorly written law that specifically targeted franchise chains that already provide more information than any mom & pop burger shack.

 

[TheAdvocate]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate
Whatever amused.

You've completely overshot the discussion here. All this is about is putting a warning label on food like cigarettes have. Whether or not it works is dependent on the true addictiveness of fast food, which is probably why this approach is being taken. Someone wants to see if the rationalization for addiction phenomenon is the same.

Interesting psych project.

Food is not addictive.

I didn't say that it was, but now that you mention it, I'm pretty certain it is psychologically addictive. It's not physically addictive, like Cigs, despite cravings I've sometimes had for a Wendy's spicy chick.

Experiment with your own business... not the livelihoods of others.

Because people who don't sell fast food should be testing for fast food addiction.

Brilliant!

It's an absurd law.

Every law on the books that doesn't say what you want it to say is absurd. Weird how that works. Such a coincidence.

And this is funny, since you claimed to be a libertarian to me in another thread. :roll:

This has nothing to do with being a libertarian. Funny how you'd miss that. Actually, no, not really funny at all. Just predictable.

For once try thinking outside your little ideologue cube.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: TheAdvocate
Whatever amused.

You've completely overshot the discussion here. All this is about is putting a warning label on food like cigarettes have. Whether or not it works is dependent on the true addictiveness of fast food, which is probably why this approach is being taken. Someone wants to see if the rationalization for addiction phenomenon is the same.

Interesting psych project.

Food is not addictive.

I didn't say that it was, but now that you mention it, I'm pretty certain it is psychologically addictive. It's not physically addictive, like Cigs, despite cravings I've sometimes had for a Wendy's spicy chick.

Experiment with your own business... not the livelihoods of others.

Because people who don't sell fast food should be tested for fast food addiction.

Brilliant!

It's an absurd law.

Every law on the books that doesn't say what you want it to say is absurd. Weird how that works. Such a coincidence.

And this is funny, since you claimed to be a libertarian to me in another thread. :roll:

This has nothing to do with being a libertarian. Funny how you'd miss that. Actually, no, not really funny at all. Just predictable.

For once try thinking outside your little ideologue cube.

A warning: Having a hard-on for someone to the point that it makes you argue with them just for the sake of arguing will get you owned every time.

This has everything to do with libertarianism. If you can't figure out why, you've owned yourself yet again.

Now please, get a hold of yourself before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Amused
It's absurd to put calorie info in such a limited MARKETING space

You could say the same about nutritional information on any product (look at the side of a cereal box opposite the nutritional information - it's all marketing). Why should the foods that are actually WORSE for you get a pass?

on items that are wildly customizable, and put the calories for every option available.

That's a red herring Wendy's is using to avoid looking bad. Every menu item has a "default" set of ingredients. You put the calorie count for that. The only exception to that (that I'm aware of) is Subway, where there is no default set of ingredients for a sandwich other than the meats.

Wendy's, McDonald's and most other fast food places have their nutritional info available in MANY forms, and easy for the customer to access. From wall hangers, to online, to tray inserts, to pamphlets at the counter. Hell, many have ALL of these.

Sometimes. Sometimes you have to seek it out - i.e. on the Internet, which isn't all that easy to access in a Wendy's restaurant. Like the nutritional information on any product you buy in a grocery store, isn't it better when it's right there in front of you?

To ask them to put it on the menu board is absurd. The menu board is for marketing items to the consumer. Marketing research shows the more cluttered a menu board, the more confused and frustrated a customer is. If you haven't noticed, menu boards have become more and more simple over the years for this very reason.

This is why I think they should be allowed to use smaller text for the calorie count.

If you're too gawd damned stupid to get the info from the easily available means, you're too gawd damned stupid to be able to do anything constructive with the info.

I don't agree with this at all.

 

[TheAdvocate]

Originally posted by: Amused

A warning: Being an ideologue with an overzealous fanaticism to a twisted ideology to the point that it makes me argue with everyone just for the sake of arguing and gets me owned every time.

This has nothing to do with libertarianism and everything to do with me being a corporate shill under the guise of actually caring about the rights and lives of individuals. It's all about the $$ yo.

Fixed.

Now, do you have anything substantive to offer, or can we look forward to more of your empty ideologue diatribes?

You hate being told what to do, but damn do you love telling everyone else what they should and shouldn't be doing. It's fun to watch you twist yourself into a spastic tizzy over this stuff.