Well that didn't take long... Droid X has root!!!

[DisgruntledVirus]

http://www.droidxforums.com/forum/droid-x-hacks/1314-we-haz-rootz.html

Well now I see little reason to NOT get the X if you're looking for a new phone

edit: I realize the bootloader is still locked down, but hopefully now that root has been obtained they will be able to find a way to get at the bootloader.

 

[tatteredpotato]

I feel rather confident that the bootloader will be cracked eventually. There are going to be tons of phones coming out with (hopefully similar) encrypted bootloaders, so there will be a lot of attention on this. I didn't think it was a big deal, but after rooting and installing Cyanogenmod 6 on my EVO I am much less likely to go back to a phone I can't crack wide open.

 

[exdeath]

Bwahahaha time to uninstall Blur/Skype/AmazonMP3/etc/etc/etc

 

[Brian Stirling]

Eventually, Android will either be locked down or the carriers will stop permitting them on there network. The carriers are in business to make money and if a particular type of phone, Android for example, is easy to crack so that users have access to features the carriers which to charge for the carriers will stop selling those phones. If a particular type of credit card permitted you to get free money from a banks ATM you can bet the banks would stop offering that type of credit card.

So, make hay while you can, I guess, because before long the carriers will no longer tolerate having there services pirated without compensation. The easier it is to do and the more people that do it the sooner Android will be killed off. Once again, the carriers, who own the network you need to have the services you want, will at some point decide they will only offer and support phones that do not make it easy to steal from them.

The feature most likely to drive Sprint to this is the wifi hotspot feature, but there are other revenue areas that a rooted phone may deny the carriers the compensation they expect. As I've said before, if the carriers can't prevent you from access features they expect to be compensated for they will find other ways to get there money. I think the most likely route will be to meter your use and charge you based on your use. So, if you root your phone and have access to the hotspot feature without paying for it then they will get there money by charging you for the data you use.

Verizon and ATT are no doubt looking to see how long before Sprint goes under with the unlimited plans they still offer. When an average user goes from eating 200MB/month to 10GB/month without any more than a $10/month fee and some users will be at 20GB/month or more. If you increase the data use by 10X-100X or even more the carriers will expect to charge more or they will go out of business. Which is the more likely outcome?


Brian

 

[exdeath]

Eventually, Android will either be locked down or the carriers will stop permitting them on there network. The carriers are in business to make money and if a particular type of phone, Android for example, is easy to crack so that users have access to features the carriers wish to charge for the carriers will stop selling those phones. If a particular type of credit card permitted you to get free money from a banks ATM you can bet the banks would stop offering that type of credit card.

So, make hay while you can, I guess, because before long the carriers will no longer tolerate having there services pirated without compensation. The easier it is to do and the more people that do it the sooner Android will be killed off. Once again, the carriers, who own the network you need to have the services you want, will at some point decide they will only offer and support phones that do not make it easy to steal from them.

The feature most likely to drive Sprint to this is the wifi hotspot feature, but there are other revenue areas that a rooted phone may deny the carriers the compensation they expect. As I've said before, if the carriers can't prevent you from access features they expect to be compensated for they will find other ways to get there money. I think the most likely route will be to meter your use and charge you based on your use. So, if you root your phone and have access to the hotspot feature without paying for it then they will get there money by charging you for the data you use.

Verizon and ATT are no doubt looking to see how long before Sprint goes under with the unlimited plans they still offer. When an average user goes from eating 200MB/month to 10GB/month without any more than a $10/month fee and some users will be at 20GB/month or more. If you increase the data use by 10X-100X or even more the carriers will expect to charge more or they will go out of business. Which is the more likely outcome?


Brian

Like what, besides the mobile hot spot, which arguably, puts a strain on the providers network? My old LG flip phone had bluetooth file xfer profiles provided by LG REMOVED by Verizon so they could charge you 25 cents to email pictures through THEIR network instead of bluetooth to your own PC, and the average user was not allowed to put their own mp3 file on it as a ring tone because Verizon was promoting Vcast (yay for bitpim). Is this acceptable?

How about what Verizon did to Skype making it require 3G and purposely not work on WiFi, then bitching about how people are using too much data and wanting to charge more for it? Is that acceptable? <- I expect a class action lawsuit for this, forcing applications to use a data service you have to pay for instead of wifi thus not allowing you to manage your data useage. This is called entrapment among other things.

Hmm car manufacturers cannot tell you what rom you can flash or what mods can go on your car, and there would be an outcry if things like the CD player and backup camera were disabled, and only renabled if you went into contract to pay Ford or Toyota $10 a month. Why are phone carriers allowed to get away with it?

Phone carriers are going to need to face the music soon and suck it up that they are just bandwidth providers and can't lock you out of your property and nickel and time you for things that you can do over a USB cable.

Paying for value added content from a provider is ok. Paying for high data use is ok. Disabling stand alone features that are native to the device so you can charge a monthly fee for the priviledge of using it or changing apps to use a paid service instead of, say Wifi, and then locking it down from reversing those changes is not.

I understand people abusing the mobile hotspot thing being a huge resource hog and providers needing to do something about it, I support that 100&#37;. That is a tangible and measureable service/resource being provided. However providers can cry me a river that they aren't able to find a way to charge me 25 cents every time I press a button or launch an app. Yeah I'm totally stealing from Verizon if I rip my own music and put it on my phone instead of using VCast or use Wifi when I can instead of being locked down to 3G. Give me a break.

I say bring on the use charges, that way everything will simply be data and phone providers become a ISP and no longer feel they have to lock down the device. Then it doesn't matter what you run, locked, rooted, whatever, data is data and when you need that outside connection to the world sooner or later in the middle of nowhere, the providers are there to provide that service and make money. But it's a double edged sword, because once they do charge for bandwidth used, it will justify and open the door for massive retaliatory lawsuits if they charge for data use, and at the same time continue to lock down your phones with crippled apps that REQUIRE you to use 3G when those apps were previously otherwise perfectly capable of using Wifi.

So bring it on.

With phones becoming more PC like, average users are going to start becoming aware of things that are and would have never been tolerated on your home PC/car/etc, and tolerance for cell carriers totalitarian black boxing methods will deminish. It's only a matter of time. They are in a panic and trying to delay it as long as they can, just like the music & entertainment industry, but it's inevitable: cell carriers WILL become nothing more than bandwidth providers and ISPs.

 

[theeedude]

Carriers don't care, they'll just change pricing plan to per megabyte, then you can root and tether all you want, just have to pay for it.

 

[Glitchny]

Carriers don't care, they'll just change pricing plan to per megabyte, then you can root and tether all you want, just have to pay for it.

Personally I think this needs to happen. As long as the $/mb prices aren't outrageous it is the best system. Users can tether etc all they want and they still get billed for what they use.

 

[exdeath]

Personally I think this needs to happen. As long as the $/mb prices aren't outrageous it is the best system. Users can tether etc all they want and they still get billed for what they use.

This, or provided tiered data plans like ISPs do. And only if they stop locking down the device since it works like a flat tax and hits everybody equally and fairly; no matter what you do on your device, you're going to use data at some point, and there is where the provider provides a service and gets paid for it.

How you use that data is no longer their business.

This also means it would be illegal for carriers to lock down wifi and force you to use 3G/4G (eg: Verizon Skype).

 

[sswingle]

Eventually, Android will either be locked down or the carriers will stop permitting them on there network. The carriers are in business to make money and if a particular type of phone, Android for example, is easy to crack so that users have access to features the carriers which to charge for the carriers will stop selling those phones.

Brian

Doubtful. The number of people who will root their android phone is very small compared to the number of phones they are selling.

 

[tatteredpotato]

Doubtful. The number of people who will root their android phone is very small compared to the number of phones they are selling.

This.

The only reason new phones have encrypted boot loaders is that it's a cheap solution that'll hold off more people. Look at the rate verizon is rolling out Droid-branded phones... The pace is quickening, which is a sign that Verizon sees Android as a profitable platform. If the Droid/Droid Eris had such bad problems with evil "hackers", the line would have been dropped already.

Also the Android modding community is a very talented group of people. One way or another phones will continue to get root just like on the iPhone.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Doubtful. The number of people who will root their android phone is very small compared to the number of phones they are selling.

My gf and I both have Droids. One of my good friends has an Incredible. Out of the 3 of us, only mine is rooted and has a custom ROM on it.

Most people I know don't root or use other ROMs due to the risks and possible headache reasons. It's not needed for most people, and there are only a small percentage of people who mod their phone with stuff the carriers don't want you to have for free (even though the hardware supports it).

Frankly, the only way out of this issue is if carriers become data providers. Be that cell data and minute type plans or through data and megabyte type plans. Really it's the only way for carriers to have no reason to lock phones down. They are currently treating data differently based on what it is, which to a point is acceptable. Saying I can't use GPS that my phone has unless I pay for your service is not acceptable though.

This.

The only reason new phones have encrypted boot loaders is that it's a cheap solution that'll hold off more people. Look at the rate verizon is rolling out Droid-branded phones... The pace is quickening, which is a sign that Verizon sees Android as a profitable platform. If the Droid/Droid Eris had such bad problems with evil "hackers", the line would have been dropped already.

Also the Android modding community is a very talented group of people. One way or another phones will continue to get root just like on the iPhone.

This as well.

The carriers are seeing profits from Android based phones. They are selling very well. The Droid X sold out. The original Droid did too IIRC. The Incredible my friend had ordered and didn't get for 3 weeks because of backorders. They phones are selling very well. Most of those users won't do any of that stuff the carrier doesn't want.

Also, as has been pointed out, PDA Net was already out and the free version allowed people to bypass the tethering issue already. It's what I used until rooting.

 

[Brian Stirling]

Like what, besides the mobile hot spot, which arguably, puts a strain on the providers network? My old LG flip phone had bluetooth file xfer profiles provided by LG REMOVED by Verizon so they could charge you 25 cents to email pictures through THEIR network instead of bluetooth to your own PC, and the average user was not allowed to put their own mp3 file on it as a ring tone because Verizon was promoting Vcast (yay for bitpim). Is this acceptable?

How about what Verizon did to Skype making it require 3G and purposely not work on WiFi, then bitching about how people are using too much data and wanting to charge more for it? Is that acceptable? <- I expect a class action lawsuit for this, forcing applications to use a data service you have to pay for instead of wifi thus not allowing you to manage your data useage. This is called entrapment among other things.

Hmm car manufacturers cannot tell you what rom you can flash or what mods can go on your car, and there would be an outcry if things like the CD player and backup camera were disabled, and only renabled if you went into contract to pay Ford or Toyota $10 a month. Why are phone carriers allowed to get away with it?

Phone carriers are going to need to face the music soon and suck it up that they are just bandwidth providers and can't lock you out of your property and nickel and time you for things that you can do over a USB cable.

Paying for value added content from a provider is ok. Paying for high data use is ok. Disabling stand alone features that are native to the device so you can charge a monthly fee for the priviledge of using it or changing apps to use a paid service instead of, say Wifi, and then locking it down from reversing those changes is not.

I understand people abusing the mobile hotspot thing being a huge resource hog and providers needing to do something about it, I support that 100%. That is a tangible and measureable service/resource being provided. However providers can cry me a river that they aren't able to find a way to charge me 25 cents every time I press a button or launch an app. Yeah I'm totally stealing from Verizon if I rip my own music and put it on my phone instead of using VCast or use Wifi when I can instead of being locked down to 3G. Give me a break.

I say bring on the use charges, that way everything will simply be data and phone providers become a ISP and no longer feel they have to lock down the device. Then it doesn't matter what you run, locked, rooted, whatever, data is data and when you need that outside connection to the world sooner or later in the middle of nowhere, the providers are there to provide that service and make money. But it's a double edged sword, because once they do charge for bandwidth used, it will justify and open the door for massive retaliatory lawsuits if they charge for data use, and at the same time continue to lock down your phones with crippled apps that REQUIRE you to use 3G when those apps were previously otherwise perfectly capable of using Wifi.

So bring it on.

With phones becoming more PC like, average users are going to start becoming aware of things that are and would have never been tolerated on your home PC/car/etc, and tolerance for cell carriers totalitarian black boxing methods will deminish. It's only a matter of time. They are in a panic and trying to delay it as long as they can, just like the music & entertainment industry, but it's inevitable: cell carriers WILL become nothing more than bandwidth providers and ISPs.

I don't disagree about the carriers wanting to charge for things they shouldn't be charging for and I have no problem with us finding a way around that. I also agree that when it actually hits them on a resource basis that they have a right to be unhappy about that. My point about Android being something of a problem for the carriers is that, because they wish to charge for this-that-and the other, they will see that Android makes it too easy to get around there profit model.

We will all be under metered plans before long and I'm actually OK with that so long as the carriers don't price it unreasonably. The huge bandwidth hogs with a penchant for downloading movies and other high data uses will then find that the plan, which used to cost $80/month because the average user was subsidizing them will be forking out $200/month whereas I may see my bill drop from $80/month to $70/month. I don't like paying for someone else's data use.


Brian

 

[Bateluer]

Eventually, Android will either be locked down or the carriers will stop permitting them on there network. The carriers are in business to make money and if a particular type of phone, Android for example, is easy to crack so that users have access to features the carriers which to charge for the carriers will stop selling those phones. If a particular type of credit card permitted you to get free money from a banks ATM you can bet the banks would stop offering that type of credit card.

So, make hay while you can, I guess, because before long the carriers will no longer tolerate having there services pirated without compensation. The easier it is to do and the more people that do it the sooner Android will be killed off. Once again, the carriers, who own the network you need to have the services you want, will at some point decide they will only offer and support phones that do not make it easy to steal from them.

The feature most likely to drive Sprint to this is the wifi hotspot feature, but there are other revenue areas that a rooted phone may deny the carriers the compensation they expect. As I've said before, if the carriers can't prevent you from access features they expect to be compensated for they will find other ways to get there money. I think the most likely route will be to meter your use and charge you based on your use. So, if you root your phone and have access to the hotspot feature without paying for it then they will get there money by charging you for the data you use.

Verizon and ATT are no doubt looking to see how long before Sprint goes under with the unlimited plans they still offer. When an average user goes from eating 200MB/month to 10GB/month without any more than a $10/month fee and some users will be at 20GB/month or more. If you increase the data use by 10X-100X or even more the carriers will expect to charge more or they will go out of business. Which is the more likely outcome?


Brian

You've been reading Apple's manifesto, nearly everything you've posted is wrong. Rooting and running a custom ROM on my Droid does not cost Verizon any more money, even on those brief instances when I tether. I'll let everyone else refute your statements, I've done it in many threads before.

 

[Brian Stirling]

You've been reading Apple's manifesto, nearly everything you've posted is wrong. Rooting and running a custom ROM on my Droid does not cost Verizon any more money, even on those brief instances when I tether. I'll let everyone else refute your statements, I've done it in many threads before.

Actually I dumped my iPhone 3G for an Evo so I'm not really the Apple fanboy you imply. If rooting permits you to use the hotspot feature without paying the $30/month fee you WILL be costing Sprint money two ways: first, they lose out on the $30/month fee, and second, you will be using more of there network and that DOES cost them as well.

I'm not up on Verizons tethering plans and since Verizon has already stated they intend to do away with the unlimited plans so if you use there network more by tethering they may get there money back through overage fees or by getting you to opt for a higher tier plan.

While YOU may use the tether only a little there are plenty of folks that will download many, MANY GB's with it and the data use change from no tether to tether appears to be significant with some users over 100X there pre-tether usage. That, my friend, is significant and without some way for the carriers to receive additional compensation for it they will either have to raise everyones rates or go out of business. As I said before, I do not wish to support someone else's downloading of GB's of tranny bondage porno!


Brian

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Actually I dumped my iPhone 3G for an Evo so I'm not really the Apple fanboy you imply. If rooting permits you to use the hotspot feature without paying the $30/month fee you WILL be costing Sprint money two ways: first, they lose out on the $30/month fee, and second, you will be using more of there network and that DOES cost them as well.

I'm not up on Verizons tethering plans and since Verizon has already stated they intend to do away with the unlimited plans so if you use there network more by tethering they may get there money back through overage fees or by getting you to opt for a higher tier plan.

While YOU may use the tether only a little there are plenty of folks that will download many, MANY GB's with it and the data use change from no tether to tether appears to be significant with some users over 100X there pre-tether usage. That, my friend, is significant and without some way for the carriers to receive additional compensation for it they will either have to raise everyones rates or go out of business. As I said before, I do not wish to support someone else's downloading of GB's of tranny bondage porno!


Brian

Here's the problem though.

It doesn't matter from a data perspective if the data is downloaded directly on the phone or if it's downloaded through the phone to a tethered laptop. Either way it's data downloaded.

I used 600 mb so far this billing cycle. Want to know how? From rooting my phone and re-downloading all my apps a few times. That's about 400 mb of the total use just from my phone (not tethered). The other 200 mb was done through normal data use and about 2 hours of tethering (which was only about 50 mb or so).

Point is that the carriers don't want to lose out on the $20-30/mo charge for it. That is the problem. That is the problem they have with it. Once again that comes back to the issue with the carrier blocking services just to get more $.

 

[tatteredpotato]

Here's the problem though.

It doesn't matter from a data perspective if the data is downloaded directly on the phone or if it's downloaded through the phone to a tethered laptop. Either way it's data downloaded.

I used 600 mb so far this billing cycle. Want to know how? From rooting my phone and re-downloading all my apps a few times. That's about 400 mb of the total use just from my phone (not tethered). The other 200 mb was done through normal data use and about 2 hours of tethering (which was only about 50 mb or so).

Here's the deal... they charge for "Unlimited Data" based on how much you will statistically be able to use (on average). Unlimited data+text on my RAZR was $20 5 years ago. They could do this because they knew that a RAZR is only capable of doing a couple MB a month. As phones get bigger screens, users use them more and hog more bandwidth. Once you turn your phone into a gateway for PCs, then the usage skyrockets. Now you might have these features and only use a few hundred MB a month, however there will be people using much more. At home our old Unlimited Alltel Air Card is the main connection for the house. It's always on to 4-5 computers. I don't monitor the bandwidth, but seeing as my dad is hooked on Netflix streaming I can easily see it hitting 15-20 gigs a month.

Essentially my point is that these companies aren't out of line charging for tethering on Unlimited plans (ATT is different on the other hand... surcharge for tether on metered bandwidth is a crock IMO). I have the wireless tether app for my EVO, however I only use it for light thing and when I have no other options. If my usage got high enough I would consider paying Sprint for the service, since the $30 isn't that much if you need the functionality.

 

[AMDZen]

You've been reading Apple's manifesto, nearly everything you've posted is wrong. Rooting and running a custom ROM on my Droid does not cost Verizon any more money, even on those brief instances when I tether. I'll let everyone else refute your statements, I've done it in many threads before.

WTF does any of what he said have to do with Apple? The iPhone is just as easy to crack and has just as large, possibly even a larger "hacker" community.

If he was trying to validate his point, it would apply to the iPhone as well.

 

[exdeath]

Essentially my point is that these companies aren't out of line charging for tethering on Unlimited plans (ATT is different on the other hand... surcharge for tether on metered bandwidth is a crock IMO).

Yeah they are out of line, when you are already paying for "unlimited" and then you have to pay double to use tethering with a 2GB cap on your "unlimited" service.

This isn't about making honest money for the services provided, it's about nickel and diming you with never ending monthly subscription charges for every button you press on your phone in order to gain free continous revenue streams without actually doing anything. Thowing arbitrary $10 and $20 a month fees for things people can or already do anyway? Give me a break. (again I'm not talking about consuming multiple gigabytes which actually requires infrastructure and provider services, I'm talking about all the stupid little things you get nickel and dimed for that equate to selling you canned air and bottled water.)

We just need to hurry up and get to flat data plans like ISPs and be done with all this scamming and milking. What happened to AOL will soon happen to cell carriers with the way smart phones and data services are evolving.

 

[tatteredpotato]

Yeah they are out of line, when you are already paying for "unlimited" and then you have to pay double to use tethering with a 2GB cap on your "unlimited" service.

This isn't about making honest money for the services provided, it's about nickel and diming you with never ending monthly subscription charges for every button you press on your phone in order to gain free continous revenue streams without actually doing anything. Thowing arbitrary $10 and $20 a month fees for things people can or already do anyway? Give me a break. (again I'm not talking about consuming multiple gigabytes which actually requires infrastructure and provider services, I'm talking about all the stupid little things you get nickel and dimed for that equate to selling you canned air and bottled water.)

We just need to hurry up and get to flat data plans like ISPs and be done with all this scamming and milking. What happened to AOL will soon happen to cell carriers with the way smart phones and data services are evolving.

I've switched from Alltel to Sprint, and both have offered me true unlimited. In this case a tethering surcharge is fine IMO. Now what ATT is doing is saying "Well give you 'x' bytes for 'y' dollars, but if you want to run it through 'z' device then we'll charge you extra". The difference in my mind, is ATT is charging a "per byte" fee, while Unlimited plans are essentially putting a charge on the average data rate the device can pull, and this will be modified by running though a different device.

 

[AMDZen]

I, as did everyone I know, got grandfathered into AT&T's previous iPhone unlimited plan. Perhaps Verizon will do something similar?

 

[tatteredpotato]

I, as did everyone I know, got grandfathered into AT&T's previous iPhone unlimited plan. Perhaps Verizon will do something similar?

Grandfathering is pretty standard, but do they let you upgrade still?

Ex: they let you keep your contract, but if you want to get a new phone subsidized they make you sign up for a new, non-unlimited plan?

 

[AMDZen]

Grandfathering is pretty standard, but do they let you upgrade still?

Ex: they let you keep your contract, but if you want to get a new phone subsidized they make you sign up for a new, non-unlimited plan?

No - I upgraded to the iPhone 4. They let me keep the unlimited plan I had for the past 2 1/2+ years. I was grandfathered into the plan even though I was getting a new phone, at the subsidized price of course. They did this for every iPhone user who was upgrading from any previous iPhone model to the iPhone 4.

 

[Brian Stirling]

Here's the problem though.

It doesn't matter from a data perspective if the data is downloaded directly on the phone or if it's downloaded through the phone to a tethered laptop. Either way it's data downloaded.

I used 600 mb so far this billing cycle. Want to know how? From rooting my phone and re-downloading all my apps a few times. That's about 400 mb of the total use just from my phone (not tethered). The other 200 mb was done through normal data use and about 2 hours of tethering (which was only about 50 mb or so).

Point is that the carriers don't want to lose out on the $20-30/mo charge for it. That is the problem. That is the problem they have with it. Once again that comes back to the issue with the carrier blocking services just to get more $.

That's right, from the carriers cost standpoint it makes no difference if the data goes to the phone or goes through the phone to the laptop -- the carrier has to provide the data/bandwidth to do it either way. The $20-$30 per month the carriers want for tethering is there way of being compensated for increased data use. Assume, for argument sake, that a carrier could break even with the average customer being billed $60/month and anything more than that is profit. Now, provide tethering that increases data use 10X and what does that do to the carriers break even point? Does it increase it -- answer YES!

So, how do they recoup the cost increase without charging more? The monthly fee for tethering is the carriers preferred method as it is just another plan addition that doesn't change the pricing scheme from what they've been using for years. As I've said before all the carriers will eventually switch to metered billing so they don't have to worry about some customers eating huge amounts of data that requires them to charge ALL there customers more.

The huge data users will not like having to pay there fair share and will bitch and moan when they go metered -- having to pay $300/month for use they now pay $80/month because they get others to pick up the difference will surely piss them off but I'm OK with that. As I said, I don't like paying for others to eat bandwidth and slow the system down. The huge data users cost me two ways: first, they increase what I have to pay per month, and second, they slow the system down making my experience on the network less enjoyable.


Brian

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Here's the deal... they charge for "Unlimited Data" based on how much you will statistically be able to use (on average). Unlimited data+text on my RAZR was $20 5 years ago. They could do this because they knew that a RAZR is only capable of doing a couple MB a month. As phones get bigger screens, users use them more and hog more bandwidth. Once you turn your phone into a gateway for PCs, then the usage skyrockets. Now you might have these features and only use a few hundred MB a month, however there will be people using much more. At home our old Unlimited Alltel Air Card is the main connection for the house. It's always on to 4-5 computers. I don't monitor the bandwidth, but seeing as my dad is hooked on Netflix streaming I can easily see it hitting 15-20 gigs a month.

Essentially my point is that these companies aren't out of line charging for tethering on Unlimited plans (ATT is different on the other hand... surcharge for tether on metered bandwidth is a crock IMO). I have the wireless tether app for my EVO, however I only use it for light thing and when I have no other options. If my usage got high enough I would consider paying Sprint for the service, since the $30 isn't that much if you need the functionality.

That's right, from the carriers cost standpoint it makes no difference if the data goes to the phone or goes through the phone to the laptop -- the carrier has to provide the data/bandwidth to do it either way. The $20-$30 per month the carriers want for tethering is there way of being compensated for increased data use. Assume, for argument sake, that a carrier could break even with the average customer being billed $60/month and anything more than that is profit. Now, provide tethering that increases data use 10X and what does that do to the carriers break even point? Does it increase it -- answer YES!

So, how do they recoup the cost increase without charging more? The monthly fee for tethering is the carriers preferred method as it is just another plan addition that doesn't change the pricing scheme from what they've been using for years. As I've said before all the carriers will eventually switch to metered billing so they don't have to worry about some customers eating huge amounts of data that requires them to charge ALL there customers more.

The huge data users will not like having to pay there fair share and will bitch and moan when they go metered -- having to pay $300/month for use they now pay $80/month because they get others to pick up the difference will surely piss them off but I'm OK with that. As I said, I don't like paying for others to eat bandwidth and slow the system down. The huge data users cost me two ways: first, they increase what I have to pay per month, and second, they slow the system down making my experience on the network less enjoyable.


Brian

You both make similar points regarding the increase use in data by tethering, so I will respond to both at the same time.

VZW has "unlimited" data plans. They have an "unofficial" cap at 5 gb, and after that will throttle you IIRC. If it's a regular thing, then they cancel that part of your plan or remove the unlimited part or something like that (can't recall where I read that off hand, but could google it if need be). So, that means that VZW either A) needs to move to a more structured plan like AT&T and regular ISPs (you get x bytes for y dollars, overages are z amount), B) put a hard cap in place at 5 gb for example, so it doesn't matter how the data is used (tethered or just the phone), or C) just say use a set $ amount per byte.

As it stands now though, it doesn't matter how the data is used or what the end device is. If too many people are "abusing" their data use then VZW needs to move to closed system that doesn't offer "unlimited" data (unless it's an expensive option). Regardless though, the tethering "fee" has always been bullshit. If people are tethering and then downloading 15+ gb's/mo, then they need to address that by putting caps in place.

Here is an another similar service "fee" that was BS. VZW charging for their VZ Navigator app even though I had unlimited data AND a phone with GPS built in (BB Curve). They locked the phone down and forced me to pay for their inferior service that I should have been able to use free (through google maps). They had no hand in that pot EXCEPT for the data to download maps and such which was all handled by Google's servers.

Tethering is exactly the same. If they take issue with people using more data when tethered, then they need to implement caps in some way. It doesn't matter to them if I download 500 mb on my phone or 500 mb on my laptop tethered to my phone. It's 500 mb regardless. Now, if the problem is that I download 500 mb on my phone but download 10 gb on my laptop, that is a different discussion entirely and in that conversation, IMO, caps should be put at say 1-2 gb for a "base" plan and 5 gb for the high end plan (which is the same price as the current "unlimited" one) with overages per mb.

 

[tatteredpotato]

I agree that phone companies have a history of doing shady stuff to con you out of money. Also it is bull that they would advertise unlimited and then cap/throttle you at 5GB, but I think it's legit to have a tethering surcharge on an "Unlimited Plan". Now if they still throttle/cap at 5 gigs then that once again is a bad way to go since it makes them look like they are double charging you like ATT now is for tethering.