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WelshBloke

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
33,344
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Commodus said:
In that case, it's odd that enough of the opposition would vote that way. Labour and the Lib Dems know they're not in a strong position. Why support an election that will likely work against you?
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I'm guessing that the opposition parties want to avoid cries of "Too chicken to fight an election then eh?". Also JC is way more interested in changing the Labour party into what he wants than actually fighting the Tories. The left have always been better at infighting than actually concentrating on what's important.

Jaskalas said:
Elections are... shameful? :confused:
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Well all sides agreed not to do this. Indeed they agreed not to do it so much that they passed legislation to stop it happening.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed-term_Parliaments_Act_2011
 
WelshBloke

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
33,344
11,488
136
mikeymikec

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
21,350
16,562
136
WelshBloke said:
Thing is, wanker or not, Tony Blair was an extremely talented politician. He was the ideal leader for a party. Jeremy Corbin is a great back bencher but possibly the worst person to have leading a party ever. And I say this as someone who has way more politically in common with JC than TB.
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I'm of a similar opinion. Jeremy Corbyn is a principled man, and I think any country needs principled people to make sure it goes in a good direction. IMO he should be essentially part of the leadership of the Labour party, but with someone who knows how to lead actually at the helm. If they can convince Jeremy Corbyn that a course of action is the best given the realities of the situation, then it's probably the right decision. Labour with JC as leader however is a ship without a captain basically.

Labour has another problem right now: While Blair was at the helm, it had the brains but no heart. With Corbyn at the helm, it has heart but no brains. The ideal Labour party in my opinion gets people from both of these elements to work together. IMO Corbyn has been acting like if you don't like his ideas, then GTFO.

As much as I dislike Tony Blair and his legacy, IMO Corbyn should get him on board as an adviser.
 
Crumpet

Crumpet

Senior member
Jan 15, 2017
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I know people don't like Corbyn, for a multitude of reasons.. But he's the closest we've got to normal.

He's also pretty much the only hope of dethroning Maggie May.

I'm giving him a chance and voting for him, hell, on the grounds alone that the Blairites and the Tories don't like him, he's got to be doing something right!
 
WelshBloke

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
33,344
11,488
136
Crumpet said:
I know people don't like Corbyn, for a multitude of reasons.. But he's the closest we've got to normal.

He's also pretty much the only hope of dethroning Maggie May.

I'm giving him a chance and voting for him, hell, on the grounds alone that the Blairites and the Tories don't like him, he's got to be doing something right!
Click to expand...

Support for Labour has tanked under JC! That's why Nosferatu feels like it's time to call a general election.
 
Crumpet

Crumpet

Senior member
Jan 15, 2017
745
539
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WelshBloke said:
Support for Labour has tanked under JC! That's why Nosferatu feels like it's time to call a general election.
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Surprisingly JC has a lot of support, its just not advertised on the media, because certain rich people who own the media don't like JC. He certainly has the under 25 support if the buggers will get off their arses and vote.

I'm not saying this guy is the second coming of Jesus, but there's a reason why other politicians, rich monopoly owners and tax evaders dislike him.
 
mikeymikec

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
21,350
16,562
136
Crumpet said:
Surprisingly JC has a lot of support, its just not advertised on the media, because certain rich people who own the media don't like JC. He certainly has the under 25 support if the buggers will get off their arses and vote.

I'm not saying this guy is the second coming of Jesus, but there's a reason why other politicians, rich monopoly owners and tax evaders dislike him.
Click to expand...

He doesn't have the support of most of his MPs, who are essential as they're the ones who officially represent him in this election. Can he support and rally them effectively though?
 
Crumpet

Crumpet

Senior member
Jan 15, 2017
745
539
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mikeymikec said:
He doesn't have the support of most of his MPs, who are essential as they're the ones who officially represent him in this election. Can he support and rally them effectively though?
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Well the math there is simple, and if his MP's can't figure it out they aren't smart enough to run the country.

Would you rather have Labour running the country, even if you don't like the person at the helm, or one of the opposing parties who keep fucking everything up?
 
mikeymikec

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
21,350
16,562
136
Crumpet said:
Well the math there is simple, and if his MP's can't figure it out they aren't smart enough to run the country.

Would you rather have Labour running the country, even if you don't like the person at the helm, or one of the opposing parties who keep fucking everything up?
Click to expand...

I think if MPs were smart enough for the job then this situation would never have arisen.

As I've said already, I do like JC, unfortunately he's partly responsible for the mess we're in already, and Labour under his leadership are sleep-walking through many government decisions that they should have been contesting.

If the SNP decided to become a party that represented the whole of the UK then I might consider them. As things are I think the libdems or greens are the closest parties to my own opinions.

My biggest personal question right now is what I can do to make the constituency I live in to be not a safe tory seat :)
 
WelshBloke

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
33,344
11,488
136
Crumpet said:
Would you rather have Labour running the country, even if you don't like the person at the helm, or one of the opposing parties who keep fucking everything up?
Click to expand...

Yes I'd rather have Labour in charge even if I'm not keen on the leadership.

Which is why I want JC back on the backbench where he's suited and someone that can at least put up a bit of a fight in charge.
 
WelshBloke

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
33,344
11,488
136
663956717f853be9e35e83606d8e0587.jpg
 
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crashtech

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,695
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Perhaps the meta-question is whether the British are European enough to be content with what the EU envisions for its members, the subsummation of national identity and self-determination in favor of bureaucratic control by Brussels. It strikes me that there's always been too much national pride to let such an arrangement stand, whether for good or ill, that's just the way it is. I think we Yanks inherited some of that pride, and it's never been beat out of either of us the way is has been on the continent, by invasion and humiliation in two world wars.
 
Crumpet

Crumpet

Senior member
Jan 15, 2017
745
539
96
crashtech said:
Perhaps the meta-question is whether the British are European enough to be content with what the EU envisions for its members, the subsummation of national identity and self-determination in favor of bureaucratic control by Brussels. It strikes me that there's always been too much national pride to let such an arrangement stand, whether for good or ill, that's just the way it is. I think we Yanks inherited some of that pride, and it's never been beat out of either of us the way is has been on the continent, by invasion and humiliation in two world wars.
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Let me get one thing clear first, I was pro remain.

But I also think the EU Union needs to be completely rewritten because as it stands now it is designed to benefit 1 or 2 countries and ignore the rest, whilst pretending to be for the benefit of the whole.

If there had been an option for "Remain, but completely rework the EU from the ground up" I would have ticket it so hard that my pencil might have combusted.
 
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mikeymikec

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
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I also think the EU definitely has issues that need to be resolved, but I would rather be in the biggest free trade sector in the world, with a say in how it works, and actually take that relationship seriously (which IMO the UK never has done, we just take what we want, and bitch about what we don't want, and complain when things don't go our way).

Instead with brexit we're likely to end up with a continuing trade relationship that costs us more and we have no say in how that trade centre works. If we had spent the time since WW2 steadily investing in our own people and infrastructure, then maybe this would be an opportunity to strike out on our own and have countries begging us for a good deal, but we haven't done that. Brexiteers will complain en masse that it's not the fault that the idea of brexit in general: being no plan whatsoever and brexiteers were duped into voting for it with promises of a moon on a stick, but it was the fault of negotiators who failed to turn a crap hand into a jackpot-winning strategy.
 
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