Welcome Back, MINIMUM PURCHASE signs for Credit Card Usage!!

[Turin39789]

It amazes me that this thread has gone nearly 200 posts and nobody has stated the obvious. Wouldn't it make more sense for the feds to regulate the fees charged by the processors rather than limiting the consumer's options?

WTF. Pass a law saying that if someone charges a nickel then the processor can't charged them a $2 fee. Problem solved. Instead, government goes the stupid route - Allowing a minimum charge amount. Which only hurts smalls business who will lose customers, or will hurt the consumer who will lose out in ATM fees. Any large retailer won't charge a minimum fee anyway. This just punishes small businesses who can't afford to eat the cost.

As a consumer I will rarely do business with cash only places. Only if they offer an EXTREMELY unique service or product that I can't get elsewhere.

So you are pro federal regulations and anti giving the businesses a choice to impose a minimum charge?

 

[Fear No Evil]

May seem lame, but the place is incredibly busy, one of the most popular places for lunch because you can get in and out in minutes. As I said above, I can take the order for, serve, tell them how much money they owe, and give change to multiple customers per minute. Most know exactly how much money it's going to cost them, and most are ready to pay when they place their order. Many people come in as small groups of 3 or 4 people, each placing their own individual order. I'll wait on them all at once, tell them each how much their individual orders are, then simply ring in the total of those orders on the register to save time. It's a pizza shop, not Walmart. I (and many of the customers) know exactly how much each order is going to come to. Regular customers who come in for a sub might say "half steak yes no yes and a can of pepsi." A group of people might walk up to the counter & with a nod of my head and lifting of eyebrows I hear the first person say "daily, pepsi" "Me too." "I'll get one with dew." "4.60 each please" <grab the drinks, guy cooking has already tossed 3 plates of 4 slices of pizza each on the counter> I'll tap in 1380, hit the button to open the register for change & start grabbing 40 cents, using both hands. I don't think it even takes 10 seconds to get the money and hand back change to 3 people. So, as for waiting 15 seconds as someone suggested above - fuck em. We don't have time.

Quite honestly, any time I've gone to some fast food type of place, as they rang up my order and I pulled a $20 out of my pocket, even if I realize that I have the exact change in my pocket, if there's a line behind me, I don't hold up the rest of the line while I dig around for the exact change. I'm not a selfish prick willing to hold everyone else up for my own convenience of having 5 fewer coins in my pocket.

Do you tell the people digging for change or paying with credit cards that they are selfish pricks? My guess is you only play tough guy on ATOT. Its too bad your customers inconvenience you. Hopefully they will stop coming by so you have more free time.

 

[Fear No Evil]

So you are pro federal regulations and anti giving the businesses a choice to impose a minimum charge?

So you are pro-business and anti giving consumers a choice?

My solution would be to keep the government the fuck out of the decision entirely. But since thats clearly not going to happen they should base their decisions on what makes the most sense. The consumer should be protected #1. Then the retailer. Then the banks (Who probably got bailed out anyway). Then the large, near monopoly credit card companies like VISA/MC/AMEX etc.

 

[torpid]

Let me see if I understand this amendment. Currently, any store owner who wants to accept Visa/MC/Amex has a stipulation in their contract that forbids them from having minimum purchases before they will accept a credit card.

Seemingly, this amendment now makes that illegal. So, basically, the amendment dictates what can and cannot be enforced and/or put into a contract between Visa/MC/Amex and a store owner?

I agree with Fear No Evil... the processing fees are what should be regulated here. The business owner already has agreed that it is worthwhile to lose x&#37; of transactions to accept credit cards. The processing fee should be either y% tacked on or $z, whichever is the lesser amount.

However, I believe the bill also requires them to charge a fee that is actually related in some way, shape, or form, to what they actually incur for the charge.

 

[alkemyst]

Wow man. You're like the bad boy of pizza. I know I'm impressed.

This is how shitty counter help kills businesses.

I can see not wanting to waste the customers time, but the employee has no time that can be wasted when the customer is needing it.

I don't agree with someone taking too long to make change...but at the same time if it's just them and the register monkey there should be all the time in the world.

The biggest problem with cash or credit is the customer not preparing to pay while the items are being ringed up. I have already swiped or have my cash out ready to go. I know how much change I have in my pocket (if any) so I can quickly pull out the difference if I need to.

With plastic all I need to do is punch in cash back or not and then sign or pin if needed.

The worst violators are the ones at Costco or BJ's (or any warehouse gas place) that insist on using cash to pay.

 

[slayer202]

can someone tell me what the exact fees are for merchants? is it a percentage with a minimum fee? what is it?

 

[QueBert]

can someone tell me what the exact fees are for merchants? is it a percentage with a minimum fee? what is it?

Yes, where I worked it was 1.75&#37; + a .25 cent transaction fee. Some places pay a higher % with no fee. Depends on who the merchant service account's with. I think this is exactly why so many of the mom and pop fast food Chinese restaurants in my area don't take anything but cash. If you're doing a lot of small transactions ($5'ish) the $ you lose really fucking adds up.

 

[zerocool84]

Nobody FORCES the businesses to accept credit cards. They willingly do it to get more business from more customers.

 

[mrjminer]

Frankly, the law that should have been put into place is one that makes it illegal for credit card companies to charge merchants fees because, really, it takes almost 0 resources to "process" a credit card transaction. The fees to should be passed off to the customers through higher interest rates; the merchants shouldn't be penalized for offering the option to use a natural successor to cash.

 

[slayer202]

Yes, where I worked it was 1.75% + a .25 cent transaction fee. Some places pay a higher % with no fee. Depends on who the merchant service account's with. I think this is exactly why so many of the mom and pop fast food Chinese restaurants in my area don't take anything but cash. If you're doing a lot of small transactions ($5'ish) the $ you lose really fucking adds up.

I mean, is 25 cents off a $5 purchase that big of a deal that you refuse to do it, and risk pissing off your customer? I gotta think you are making more than 25 cents on the deal, which would make it worth just sucking it up. at least that's my opinion. or just charge 25 cents more on everything...

 

[lxskllr]

I mean, is 25 cents off a $5 purchase that big of a deal that you refuse to do it, and risk pissing off your customer? I gotta think you are making more than 25 cents on the deal, which would make it worth just sucking it up. at least that's my opinion. or just charge 25 cents more on everything...

Restaurants operate at razor thin margins. While 25¢ off of $5 might not be much to eat for a single purchase, you add all those 25¢ up over the year, and you're into some real money.

 

[slayer202]

Restaurants operate at razor thin margins. While 25¢ off of $5 might not be much to eat for a single purchase, you add all those 25¢ up over the year, and you're into some real money.

well you're paying the 25 cents no matter what. it just matters more when its a low $$ charge. the fee should be built in regardless though

 

[Svnla]

...... You'll be standing there with money in your hand, your pizza sitting on the counter, until I get around to getting the money from you. You don't get 1 on 1 attention until your entire order is completed. You don't get to waste my time. I get to waste your time though.

I always thought you were the few posters that are level headed in this board but I have to disagree with you on this, especially the bold part.

To me, a paying customer, regardless of how he is paying his order, whether coins, bills, credit card, or whatever is the boss and the establishment and its employees are there to serve him/her. I understand your frustration in dealing with idiots that have no clue of what do do at the counter/cashier station.

Paying customers are never waste employees' time because no customer = no waste time of employees = no sale/no profit = store shutdown = employees are on the street and has plenty of time to get another job.

 

[Oceanas]

My solution would be to keep the government the fuck out of the decision entirely. But since thats clearly not going to happen they should base their decisions on what makes the most sense.

If that's how you feel, and the only 2 choices were this minimum charge option or them regulating the rates and fees charged, this is the least intrusive. It also gives them less to fuck up on. I'm sure all of congress are experts on what the various rates and charges should actually be and could never create a clusterfuck out of trying to dictate that.

can someone tell me what the exact fees are for merchants? is it a percentage with a minimum fee? what is it?

I know QueBert already pretty much answered this, but to add a bit of depth...

The typical setup is a percentage from each transaction + a set charge per transaction. The fees actually vary based on a number of factors. In QueBert's example, 1.75% + .25 per transaction would be the rate for 'qualified' transactions. It's the lowest rate that can be charged on a transaction. So that would be if I had a retail store and someone came in with a basic credit card and I swiped it. There are other rates that are charged if I had a retail store and for some reason I manually keyed in the card number instead of swiped. You also pay higher rates for rewards cards and business cards, if you need to do address verification but don't, etc. The fees can also vary by brand (Visa/MC, Discover, AMEX).

You are also typically billed a statement fee, may have a monthly minimum amount you must reach or pay another fee, and can be charged a batch fee (a batch is when you settle the transactions at the end of the day).

 

[ShawnD1]

Okay, Mr. Passive Aggressive.

A lot of idiots are like that. You'll set the $10 bill down and start fumbling around for change. Long before you find the first coin, your $2.80 change or however much you have coming back to you will be in front of you, and that $10 will be in the register. I'm not waiting.

WE DO NOT ACCEPT COINS AT THIS PLACE OF BUSINESS PLEASE USE BILLS ONLY

I would never shop at a place that will not accept coins. The last thing I need is more coins in my change.

 

[slayer202]

I know QueBert already pretty much answered this, but to add a bit of depth...

The typical setup is a percentage from each transaction + a set charge per transaction. The fees actually vary based on a number of factors. In QueBert's example, 1.75% + .25 per transaction would be the rate for 'qualified' transactions. It's the lowest rate that can be charged on a transaction. So that would be if I had a retail store and someone came in with a basic credit card and I swiped it. There are other rates that are charged if I had a retail store and for some reason I manually keyed in the card number instead of swiped. You also pay higher rates for rewards cards and business cards, if you need to do address verification but don't, etc. The fees can also vary by brand (Visa/MC, Discover, AMEX).

You are also typically billed a statement fee, may have a monthly minimum amount you must reach or pay another fee, and can be charged a batch fee (a batch is when you settle the transactions at the end of the day).

thanks for the info :thumbsup:

 

[slayer202]

I think the real problem is that the guy running a pizza shop buys his bagels at the supermarket. that must be some great pizza...

 

[Fear No Evil]

Frankly, the law that should have been put into place is one that makes it illegal for credit card companies to charge merchants fees because, really, it takes almost 0 resources to "process" a credit card transaction. The fees to should be passed off to the customers through higher interest rates; the merchants shouldn't be penalized for offering the option to use a natural successor to cash.

I have worked for a company which processed credit card transactions. I assure you there IS a cost to it. Do you think its free for all the servers which approve your transaction in seconds with nearly zero downtime? Do you think its free to have data circuits running to thousands of banks/credit unions/etc? Do you think its free to troubleshoot those things when they go down? What about the software to process all these transactions, settle them, and make sure every bank/person/business gets every penny due to them at the end of each day? How about backing up the data of every transaction for 15 years? How about all the networking hardware to keep all these systems communicating internally and to each financial institution?

Thats just a fraction of it.

 

[alkemyst]

can someone tell me what the exact fees are for merchants? is it a percentage with a minimum fee? what is it?

It depends. The bigger merchants are paying a lot less because they have the volume.

At low levels usually fees by paypal look like a bargain

If they are renting a machine(s) that also factors in.

If a merchant is paying more than 3% or so they really need to re-evalute....if that is their pure profit margin I'd imagine they'd not be in business long anyway.

 

[Fingolfin269]

So you are pro-business and anti giving consumers a choice?

Consumer's do have a choice. Go elsewhere. It's not a tough concept.

 

[DrPizza]

I always thought you were the few posters that are level headed in this board but I have to disagree with you on this, especially the bold part.

To me, a paying customer, regardless of how he is paying his order, whether coins, bills, credit card, or whatever is the boss and the establishment and its employees are there to serve him/her. I understand your frustration in dealing with idiots that have no clue of what do do at the counter/cashier station.

Paying customers are never waste employees' time because no customer = no waste time of employees = no sale/no profit = store shutdown = employees are on the street and has plenty of time to get another job.

Perhaps I should have said "wasting all the other customers' time who are standing behind you"? It's simple courtesy. If you're getting in line at the grocery store with a heaped over grocery cart, there's only one line open, and the person behind you has 1 or 2 items, do you let them go ahead of you? I certainly would. And, I can't count how many times people in this area have done the same for me.
If you have a line of people behind you, you've got to be self-centered not to realize that you're holding everyone up. If you're a regular customer, then you know exactly how much your order is going to come to. (We have people who eat the same thing for lunch 5 days a week) - and if they're paying with change, they have it ready. And, at that restaurant at lunch time, there is a line. A perpetual line of people, many of whom have 30 minutes from the time they punched out until they have to punch back in. Don't waste their time! The place is a gold mine for the owner. The employees are paid significantly above what similar types of restaurants pay their employees. (A pizza shop that gives even part time employees two paid weeks of vacation? A pizza shop that pays for health insurance for its full time employees?) I've never seen another place where you can get fresh pizza as quickly. The food is excellent, and you're served fresh pizza faster than a McDonalds can serve you fries.

 

[torpid]

Frankly, the law that should have been put into place is one that makes it illegal for credit card companies to charge merchants fees because, really, it takes almost 0 resources to "process" a credit card transaction. The fees to should be passed off to the customers through higher interest rates; the merchants shouldn't be penalized for offering the option to use a natural successor to cash.

There is a cost, but I agree it is a low marginal cost per transaction compared to the fee, unless their technology is incredibly outdated.

However, I believe the amendment in question DOES make it illegal to charge fees that aren't in line with actual costs.

 

[Phoenix86]

To me, a paying customer, regardless of how he is paying his order, whether coins, bills, credit card, or whatever is the boss and the establishment and its employees are there to serve him/her.

Some customers aren't worth keeping, they cost you more than you earn.

When I ran my computer business, I wouldn't serve consumers, only businesses. The headaches and lower profit from serving the general public weren't worth it.

 

[Phoenix86]

There is a cost, but I agree it is a low marginal cost per transaction compared to the fee, unless their technology is incredibly outdated.

However, I believe the amendment in question DOES make it illegal to charge fees that aren't in line with actual costs.

Then why the two orders? *cue A Few Good Men*

If they fixed the fees why allow merchants to have minimums?

 

[torpid]

Then why the two orders? *cue A Few Good Men*

If they fixed the fees why allow merchants to have minimums?

I have no idea if the rule has any real-world impact. I'm sure the processing companies will do some suspicious math to prove that a $1-2 charge is justified. In which case disallowing < $5 on the credit card still would help the business owner.