Weights and running -- plan

[IHateMyJob2004]

UPDATE 2 June 25, 2011
I am going to keep this thread updated with my running progress doing the couch to 5K program. I am not following it verbatim but I am using as a guide.

Intro:
OK. I have a routine I do and do not know if it is good or bad. In the past it has worked for me. I want to increase muscle mass, and drop a few notches on my belt. I have a 36-38 waist right now and weigh 226 at 6' tall. I am 35.

History:
I was 225-230 in January. Had a 38 waist. Got down to 220-225 and my waist dropped to 36". 34" was almost doable. And I had much more muscle mass. Shoulders/chest were noticably bigger (to me) and I'm sure everything else was to. This was mid-April. I've recently gained waist size again and hate it. Not back to January levels but still in between.

Target:
34" waist. More Muscle. As for weight, I am not that concerned. 200 is a serious goal but 210 would be fine so long as the waist line drops.

Diet:
Don't worry, I can handle that part.

Current:
Right now it is 3 days
1) weights (upper body)
2) weights (lower body)
3) cardio (running in the summer, eliptical in the winter)

Future:
I just want to totally change things. Can I do runing and weights on the same day? Or is that a bad idea? running/lower body on the same day is my concern. Would running first be the way to go?

For weights, woudl a 3 day rotation be better and if so, what exercises? What would you do fora a 2 day weight rotation? I prefer macros with fewer exercises. Right now, I litterally do about 5 different upper body and 5 different lower body exercises.

UPDATE (1):
I want to make the 5K a goal. This requires 3 days of running per week. On running days, I will do weights then rest for 5 mintues (while stretching). Walk for 5 then do the couch to 5K program.

 

[Pantlegz]

For weights I would go with strong lifts or starting strength or some other linear progression compound lift routine. SS is lower volume so you can stick to it longer without failing. I had good results with Strong Lifts though. Cardio is a funny thing, if you're wanting more muscle I would just say don't run for a while, unless you really like to run but be aware that it will slow the muscle gain down. Cardio also doesn't increase the metabolism as long as lifting so in turn it can slow down a little. I would suggest lifting on the 3 days and if you need to do cardio do HIIT on some off days for 15min or so.

I'm biased and hate cardio, but if you want to see the changes that just lifting can do look at my log, there are starting pics, and 1 and 2 year pics. The 2 year pics aren't in the OP but post 429. And I starting out running and found out it wasn't helping me as much as lifting and it was slowing down my gym days so I cut it out.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Link to log?

Might want to toss it into your signature.

 

[gar655]

Some combination of both strength training and cardio would be best since you need to lose weight. Just don't over do the cardio and it won't affect your strength training.

Even the roided out body builders do some cardio to help burn calories.

 

[Pantlegz]

it's like 3 posts down but here's the link

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=300951

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Today I ran 2.3 miles (well ran 1.5 miles maybe and walked the rest). Never in my life have I run 1 mile non stop. I got up to the point where i could do 3/4 mile but that was it. oh, bought new running shoes today. Asics or whatever spelling the brand has.

Anyway, did that. Then did lower body weights. Dead lift, leg extension, leg curl, toa raises and a few situps. Running takes alot of energy out of you The dead lift workout was good though and that was what I started with.

Feel good today!

So, tomorrow the plan is upper body and no running. Thoughts?

Then today again on day 3. Thoughts?

I'd probably do this on a 3 day cycle and take one day off. Might run on the day off or do a long walk with the family.

So:
Sunday: upper body weights
Monday: running followed by lower body weights
Tuesday: upper body weights
Wednesday: running followed by lower body weights
Thursday: upper body weights
Friday: running followed by lower body weights
Saturday: Walk with family.

Thoughts?

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Pantlegz1,

You are dead lifting 500 pounds? Wow.

I can get 200 pounds off the ground and thought that was good. Form is not there to do this normally but I did try it out once.

 

[Pantlegz]

yea, deadlift isn't something you want to go heavy with without good form. Poor form can mess your back up.

As far as your routine, cardio right before lifting will deplete your glycogen giving your muscles less energy thus hurting your lifts. If you can give it 30 min and get some carbs in you to replenish glycogen it'll work out ok. Honestly, I'd look into one of the programs I suggested to get lifts/routines.

 

[Lamont Burns]

6 days of weights and 1 day of rest? That's a lot depending on what kind of daily routine you are doing. I'd rest more.

I'd run after lifting. Also don't worry about glycogen, a lot of the "zomg you will be depleted" notions are outdated.

I like upper/lower splits, but there's typically a rest day in between. Meaning light to moderate cardio is okay, but lifting is generally on hold.

Rest is good. Diet is also just as if not more important, but you say you've got that under control.

Just work on improving week to week. A linear based program while looking to lose weight or in a caloric deficit will plateau very quickly. Since you're untrained you can get a couple months out of the program fine, but it's not built to lose weight, if that's primary.

Approach it like value investing. Takes time, and rest is just as important as the workout.

 

[ZOOYUKA]

Today I ran 2.3 miles (well ran 1.5 miles maybe and walked the rest). Never in my life have I run 1 mile non stop. I got up to the point where i could do 3/4 mile but that was it. oh, bought new running shoes today. Asics or whatever spelling the brand has.

Try the couch to 5k. It would be perfect for someone like you. plus the podcasts are free.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Maybe I could go to a 4 day rotation.
1) Upper body
2) run
3) lower body
4) run

repeat... no days off. If anything , think it would makes sense to rest between days 3 and 4 in order to let my leg muscles recover before running again.

I guess I really don't want any days off except one day per weekend. And I want to spend 30-60 minutes a day doing something. I spend 8 hours a day in a chair doing software engineering so I need to get up.

I am also thinking that this winter I will be buying a treadmill. And this summer if we move I am gettign a cage or smith machine. Leaning towards a cage.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Try the couch to 5k. It would be perfect for someone like you. plus the podcasts are free.

What is that? Make my goal to do an actual 5K race by end of summer?

EDIT:
Oh, couch to a 5K in two months. Reading now...
http://www.coolrunning.com/engine/2/2_3/181.shtml

I want to make this couch to 5K a goal. Granted I'd be happy with being able to run for 15 minutes non stop regardless of distance. Right now it is not my heart/lungs. My legs can't do it.

 

[Lamont Burns]

I admire the spunk. I do a 2 on 1 off, 1 on 1 off style lifting routine. I hate cardio, don't do it currently.

If you want to be active daily, sure run like mad.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

OK, so I want to fit a 6 day schedual with day 7 just rest or walk. Chances are that walk will relally be "cut grass".

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

I admire the spunk. I do a 2 on 1 off, 1 on 1 off style lifting routine. I hate cardio, don't do it currently.

If you want to be active daily, sure run like mad.

See the "Current:" section in my OP. I did that with one day off and had good results. It was 1-2-3-1-2-3-restDay-1-2-3-1-2-3-restDay-....

I should probably rest more. When I hit my goals I will probably modify my routine a bit. Goal really is 34" waist with minimal love handles (currently 37" or so with love handles). My weight does not bother me so much. I'd love to hit my target by end of July but it might be tough to do it that fast.

 

[Lamont Burns]

If it works, keep at it. I guess what I experienced was when the weights got higher, I needed more rest. 123, rest, 123, rest perhaps?

You might hit 34 and think hmmm, 32 is doable. 5 weeks for pants size is doable, but for your target of "more muscle" you might need more time.

If you're 37 with love handles 225 and 6 feet tall, 34 will still have love handles. Unfortunately it's among the last to go bye bye.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

lamont,

At my age (35) I think love handles to some extent are inevitable When I exercise and get my waist down to 34", my back usually gets larger and shoulders bigger. I start getting that V shaped upper body. Thanks mom and dad for the genetics

Today pissed me off. I was only benching 150. I don't get it. I was doing 160-165 just 3 days ago and today I could barely get 150 up. 3 months ago I was working out with 170-175.

Never been strong but man, I can actually get mass. And I have a cousin that was a stick in 10th grade and benched 250. Genetics .... so interesting.

 

[Lamont Burns]

Off days happen, or could be you hit up the movement too soon to recover? Ha, I keep harping on that.

Genetics are indeed fascinating. Mine are really quite terrible, and was even born with some limitations I have to work around in the gym too.

I'm 31 and love handles are not inevitable but for a married guy with kids, yeah it's pretty difficult to keep them 100% out of the picture. Large shoulders definitely obscure the view in a good way.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I run and lift all the time and it works great. I don't run the same day whenever I do lower body (squats) or deadlifts just because I physically can't afterwards. If you do a proper set of squats then follow it up with deadlift you should limp to your car leaving the gym. My weightlifting only consists of the main powerlifting movements such as squat, deadlift, bench. I'll throw in wide grip pull ups, incline bench press, and lunges but 90% is the big three. I have plenty of usable muscle as I like to call it. I am very agile and don't have a ton of muscle that will bog you down while doing things like basketball or running. I could get bigger by running less and lifting more but I feel I have plenty of strength and I'm still very athletic.
Personnally I don't see the point of having 250lbs of muscle but that's just me. I'd rather be able to run up a mountain side or play basketball and still have plenty of explosion. The heart is a muscle more important than any other and it's good to give it a good workout.
The reason I keep the weightlifting to the main lifts is time restraints. The more time I lift the less time I have to run and vice versa. It's a delicate balance and the main lifts are fast, effective, and huge gains for the time invested.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

I'm doing that couch to 5K program as part of this plan. Mentioned above I think. To anyone thinking about it. Wow. It is actually good. I think it will work. It managed to turn running into something enjoyable instead of something I dreaded. It makes you realize that you can take longer walk breaks while you build up stamina.

I figured I was either at week 2 or 3 in terms of the plan so I started with a week 3 type of run today.

Did:
2 minute warm up (supposed to be 5, oh well)
01) Run 90 seconds
02) Walk 90 seconds
03) Run 90 seconds
04) Walk 90 seconds
05) Run 90 seconds
06) Walk 90 seconds
07) Run 90 seconds
08) Walk 90 seconds
---- the couch to 5K plan would normally end here
09) run 90 seconds
10) walk 120 seconds
11) run 90 seconds
12) walk 90 seconds
13) run 60 seconds
14) walk 120 seconds
15) run 60 seconds
16) 5 minute cool down walk.

I'm pretty sure this was what I did. Might have an extra run/walk cycle towards the end. Might be off a bit here and there with times but this was it.

I took in some protein, rested for a bit and then did deadlift, leg curl, leg extensions. Kinda tired so I quit. Wanted to do situps and toe raises. I could have but decided that showering was a better path.

Shockingly, I tossed 200 pounds on for the deadlift and it wasn't doing much. So I went up to 220 and then 230 pounds. I really felt it. I think my form is mostly correct.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Just run til you get tired then rest. Once rested enough start running again. The 90 seconds walking then 90 seconds running sounds like a workout plan for a 80 year old grandma. You're a grown ass man no need to start with the granny plan.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Just run til you get tired then rest. Once rested enough start running again. The 90 seconds walking then 90 seconds running sounds like a workout plan for a 80 year old grandma. You're a grown ass man no need to start with the granny plan.

I'm 35 and somewhat out of shape at 220 pounds.

The plan sets goals. The plan is actully 90 second run/120 second walk repeated so that there are 4 running cycles. The 90 minute walk is what I needed to rest up enough so I just modified the couch-5K plan.

Prior to this, I was doing 90 second run probably and 20 second walk then 80 second run, 20 second walk. The thing is, I was totally spent and doing less running after each iteration after being 2/3 of the way through my 30 minutes of running.

This program though, it is more consistant and I acutally do the run walk cycle all the way home.

 

[Sid59]

I'm 35 and somewhat out of shape at 220 pounds.

The plan sets goals. The plan is actully 90 second run/120 second walk repeated so that there are 4 running cycles. The 90 minute walk is what I needed to rest up enough so I just modified the couch-5K plan.

Prior to this, I was doing 90 second run probably and 20 second walk then 80 second run, 20 second walk. The thing is, I was totally spent and doing less running after each iteration after being 2/3 of the way through my 30 minutes of running.

This program though, it is more consistant and I acutally do the run walk cycle all the way home.

Good job! I'm 6 weeks into C25K and although i feel i can push harder and longer, i'm sticking to the plan. i haven't ran/jogged in over 10 years. Last year, i started the program at week 4 or 5, totally disregarding the other weeks and i ended up with a fracture because my body was not acclimated.
This time around, no injuries.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I'm 35 and somewhat out of shape at 220 pounds.

The plan sets goals. The plan is actully 90 second run/120 second walk repeated so that there are 4 running cycles. The 90 minute walk is what I needed to rest up enough so I just modified the couch-5K plan.

Prior to this, I was doing 90 second run probably and 20 second walk then 80 second run, 20 second walk. The thing is, I was totally spent and doing less running after each iteration after being 2/3 of the way through my 30 minutes of running.

This program though, it is more consistant and I acutally do the run walk cycle all the way home.

I think you should change your mindset. It's balls to the wall for me each time I workout and it's a big key to my success. I can't stand seeing people loafing around at the gym making small talk and then getting on the elliptical for a nice leasurely "workout".

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

OIL,
I'll agree to disagree.

Sid59,
Thanks. Sorry to hear about the fracture.