Weight Lifting vs Gymnastics?

Woosta

Platinum Member
Mar 23, 2008
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Could someone explain specifically what the difference is between say, a buff weight lifter and a gymnist/breakdancer? I've been lifting weights doing high weight + low rep but someone told me that won't get me "functional strength" which is what breakdancers and gymnists have, people who could balance their whole body on one arm and they aren't as buff as the weight lifters but it SEEMS like they are stronger.

I would rather be able to the stuff breakdancers/gymnists can do instead of just have big, useless muscles. But does that depend on how I'm lifting the weights? Should I go the high weight and high rep or fast + high rep instead of slow + low rep? Or should I just do something like try to keep myself off the ground in a sitting position and try to hold it?
 

brikis98

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2005
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There is a lot at play here, so it's hard to narrow this down to a simple "high rep vs. low rep" kind of debate. However, here are some general comments:

1. Weight lifting can, without a doubt, build very functional strength. However, that requires training in a more functional manner, utilizing your body in the way nature intended. This means absolutely NO machines and essentially NO isolation exercises. In general, this means that body building routines are one of the LEAST functional ways to train. Practical, functional weight training will focus around compound and olympic lifts, such as the squat, deadlift, overhead press, clean & jerk and so on. These movements translate extremely well to the real world because they use your entire body as one unit in a very natural way. You can also do exercises that are not purely weight lifting, such as rope climbing, pull-ups, dips, working out on rings, box jumps, plyometrics, etc. Short of doing the actual thing you are training for - e.g. break dancing - this is as functional as you can get.

2. You have to be careful when defining strength. For example, who has a stronger upper body, a great breakdancer or a great weight lifter? Well, that depends on what they are doing. The weight lifter might be able to overhead press WAY more than the break dancer. However, flip him upside down into a handstand - which is very similar to an overhead press - and the weight lifter won't be able to do any of the feats of strength the break dancer can do. The break dancer will have developed all the coordination and balance muscles to keep himself upright, do handstand push-ups, one armed handstand, etc. The weight lifter, without having developed his body for this, won't be able to apply much of his strength here.

3. Your body and muscles can be trained in many different ways. You can work out to maximize muscle hypertrophy (the size/mass of the muscle), which is what body builders typically do. This kind of strength is not going to be very functional. You can do a purely power lifting routine which focuses on increasing your abilities in three specific lifts: the squat, bench and deadlift. These are compound lifts and they develop raw strength. They apply fairly well to life, as long as speed/explosiveness are not a factor. You could also do a purely olympic weight lifting routine, which focuses mostly on two specific lifts: the clean & jerk and the snatch. While typically having less raw strength than a power lifter, the quickness & explosiveness of an Olympic lifter will apply very well to life where such speed and quickness are necessary. Aerobic training is also extremely functional in real life. Running, swimming, biking, etc all (obviously) transfer very well to real life. Even using gymnastics to train is very functional. Exercises done on rings, parallel bars, etc. build explosive strength, balance, agility, etc. I'm obviously over-simplifying these exercise concepts, and there are many I'm skipping, but I think you get what I'm saying.

4. If functionality is your main goal, you need a routine that touches all the bases: you need raw strength at the base, you need to be able to use this strength quickly and explosively and you need a cardio/endurance component to be able to do it for a long time. IMO, the ideal routine for this is Crossfit. It is a combination of power lifting, olympic lifting, gymnastics, plyometrics and a whole lot more and is specifically built to be non-specific. "CrossFit maintains that proficiency is required in each of 10 fitness domains: cardiovascular/respiratory endurance, stamina, strength, flexibility, power, speed, agility, balance, coordination, and accuracy." They hit all the bases and try to build a program that is as functional as possible. I started it myself just recently and you can read my experience with in in my journal.
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
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Well, I think this situation can be looked at two different ways. First off, we have an assumption that a break dancer or a gymnast will build their stabilizer muscles to great lengths, which I think is what Brikis touched on. However, we also have to question something specific like break dancing and gymnastics and whether they are specializing.

Let's say a break dancer specializes on what what they can do with their hands while on the floor, generally speaking this would mean not building their lower body AT ALL is actually beneficial to them, since they are throwing that lower body weight around with their upper body (youtube handicapped break dancing). Sure, this might allow them to do cool moves, but it also means that their total body strength is actually pretty crappy since they are specializing so much. A weight lifter might get in that same situation and realize that they can't throw their lower body around as much because it is a much heavier amount of weight. If you work your entire body out evenly, in some respects you limit far ends of the spectrum where other people might be able to do ridiculous feats of a specific type of strength.

To put this another way, if you can create a test where the gymnist or the break dancer would succeed, you can also create a test where they would undoubtedly fail. To exemplify this, you called weight lifting "useless strength", however, if I had a large boulder on the ground and asked the gymnist, the break dancer, and the weight lifter to pick it up and move it, I'm sure you can guess which one would succeed.

I suppose my question to you is why you think picking something up is useless but standing on your head with your feet spread in various directions is the epitome of useful. I can tell you which one actually comes into play more in the real world.

And to end this, I'll take a moment to admit that there is a lot of people weight lifting who go to great lengths to eliminate stabilizers from the equation, perhaps not even consciously. However, you, as the lifter, can choose what exercises you do, how well you do them, and thus how much you take from working out all together.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Some your rep range but more the particular movements you do. For example, at a body weight of 175 I've been able to bench 270 and yet could hardly do a situp. Also, despite "doing shoulders", my strength away from specific weight training activities were greatly less than I'd have liked. So, if you have bob who does nothing and Jim who lifts weights and he increases all his lifts in various areas by 100%, he may only be 50% stronger than bob at, say, lifting a dresser or some strange movement like that.

Gymnists are doing a great eclectic number of movements and not stuck in a single routine, so their strength is like a race car (good power/handling) vs a drag car (good power, no handling).

To look good on the beach you'll do your biceps and bench press and all that to beef up the muscles, but the smaller supporting muscles and balance and muscle control outside of strict movements will be better supported by supplementing with other movements.

IMO, and I've never done gymnastics in my life, it is the ultimate, superior of all activity for physical prowess. You look at olympic gymnists and these guys are exceedingly strong (iron cross anyone?) and extremely agile and in command of their bodies. I'm not being "sweet", just honest :0
 

gramboh

Platinum Member
May 3, 2003
2,207
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0
There is also the issue of specificity. If you want to get good at breaking, you need to break. I'd think that low rep high weight compound lifts (as described by Brikis above) would be very beneficial to breakdancing. Explosive movies like the Olympic lifts would build power for doing power moves, presses etc. strength for poses. Probably CrossFit is the best overall answer if you want conditioning as it incorporates some gymnastics as well as lifting and running etc. Most importantly you need to practice breakdancing a lot if you want to get better at it.
 

HN

Diamond Member
Jan 19, 2001
8,186
4
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Originally posted by: Alienwho
Originally posted by: HN
Here's a fun little read to get you started...
Building an Olympic Body through Bodyweight Conditioning

Be patient.
Be consistent.
Avoid regular training to failure.
Give the mother nature time to work for you

This looks awesome. I'm going to take a break from my normal routine and give this a shot. Do you have any other links or recommendations on this?
there's a few more articles and some discussion on coach sommer's site: http://gymnasticbodies.com/
but the main article is the original one above.
 

yelo333

Senior member
Dec 13, 2003
990
0
71
Originally posted by: Alienwho
Originally posted by: HN
Here's a fun little read to get you started...
Building an Olympic Body through Bodyweight Conditioning

Be patient.
Be consistent.
Avoid regular training to failure.
Give the mother nature time to work for you

This looks awesome. I'm going to take a break from my normal routine and give this a shot. Do you have any other links or recommendations on this?

I don't think this is intended as a complete routine. It's simply a plan to help you be able to perform a couple gymnastic moves. Cut back an exercise or two from your regular routine, yes, but I wouldn't quit to do this instead.

It's amazing how fast you progress on the static holds at first. They're fun. :)
 

DomS

Banned
Jul 15, 2008
1,678
0
0
I was dating a girl who would say that. It PISSED me off to no end. She'd say 'yeah you have a really nice body, but it's not REAL muscle...like a gymnast'. I told her that if you ever have to push anything, pull anything, lift anything overhead, squat down, walk, or participate in an athletic activity of any sort, then the strength I have is functional.

Plus give me a month for my nervous system to get used to what a gymnast does, and I could probably do at LEAST 60% of what they do. I'm not saying everything, because I know there's plenty of hard stuff. But give a gymnast a month and I guarantee they couldn't throw around the weights I do on any major compound movement.
 

Alienwho

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2001
6,766
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76
So I tried the frog planche last night. It's pretty tough, and I'm worried I might be too big to get really good at it. I am 6'2" 190lbs. In this article http://gymnasticbodies.com/articles2.html where he says "There are exceptions to be found in almost all sports. France?s Dmitry Karbanenko is a "giant" in gymnastics (5?8", 170 pounds)". If that guy is a giant, what does that make me?!

It was cool though and I am going to stick with it. I made my wife do it too and she did a lot better than me, able to hold it for about 20 seconds at a time. She's pretty tall too though 5'10" 130lbs.
 

yelo333

Senior member
Dec 13, 2003
990
0
71
Originally posted by: Alienwho
So I tried the frog planche last night. It's pretty tough, and I'm worried I might be too big to get really good at it. I am 6'2" 190lbs. In this article http://gymnasticbodies.com/articles2.html where he says "There are exceptions to be found in almost all sports. France?s Dmitry Karbanenko is a "giant" in gymnastics (5?8", 170 pounds)". If that guy is a giant, what does that make me?!

It was cool though and I am going to stick with it. I made my wife do it too and she did a lot better than me, able to hold it for about 20 seconds at a time. She's pretty tall too though 5'10" 130lbs.

Don't worry about genetics; you can't change them. I'm 6'4" 170 lbs myself.

I think my progression on the frog planche was something like 20 seconds -> 30 seconds -> 45 -> 55 -> 1 minute, doing it 3 days a week. Unfortunately, I quit once I got to about 15 seconds on the knee tuck. (the next one)

...Maybe we could have some sort of an AT H&F "Building an Olympic Body" contest? :)