Weed and Government Clearances

[Drako]

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: benjpw

Once again it is similiar to the DOD firing those 1,500 gay Arabic translators when we are at war with two Arabic countries.

could you link to that?

I think THIS is what he was referring to. Not sure where the 1500 number came from though.

 

[slsmnaz]

Originally posted by: Drako

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: benjpw

Once again it is similiar to the DOD firing those 1,500 gay Arabic translators when we are at war with two Arabic countries.

could you link to that?

I think THIS is what he was referring to. Not sure where the 1500 number came from though.

Oh I know what he meant but just wanted to see if he had the guts to come back. Highest # I've seen is 58 here.

 

[Drako]

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: Drako

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: benjpw

Once again it is similiar to the DOD firing those 1,500 gay Arabic translators when we are at war with two Arabic countries.

could you link to that?

I think THIS is what he was referring to. Not sure where the 1500 number came from though.

Oh I know what he meant but just wanted to see if he had the guts to come back. Highest # I've seen is 58 here.

If they are talking about "Arabic" translators, I think the 58 number is inflated as well. I think these sites like to group in Farsi, Tagalog and Indonesian translators in as Aribic for some reason.

 

[jiggahertz]

Past drug use isn't a big deal for DoD clearances as long as you are honest about it.

 

[jiggahertz]

Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel

Originally posted by: Drako
So, your complaining about trying to weed out lawbreaking liars?

I have gone through a number of polygraph tests over years of working on G jobs. The simple answer is, if you don't want to take the test, then you won't get the job. Certain clearances actually require what they call a "lifestyle" polygraph, where they ask you all kinds of questions about your sexual preference, drug use, financial stuff, etc. Again, if you don't like the questions, then I guess you better not apply for those types of jobs.

They can do that? :Q

They can ask anything they want. They also can access records which are confidential.

 

[jiggahertz]

Originally posted by: brxndxn

Originally posted by: Drako
So, your complaining about trying to weed out lawbreaking liars?

I have gone through a number of polygraph tests over years of working on G jobs. The simple answer is, if you don't want to take the test, then you won't get the job. Certain clearances actually require what they call a "lifestyle" polygraph, where they ask you all kinds of questions about your sexual preference, drug use, financial stuff, etc. Again, if you don't like the questions, then I guess you better not apply for those types of jobs.

That's bullshit because it keeps people that would otherwise influence policy out of policy-influencing positions. For example.. the government likes to act like alcohol is okay but smoking weed is awful. So, they make laws that prevent people that believe otherwise from ever being positioned to make changes.

A 'lifestyle' polygraph should NEVER be used for a government job or any job for that matter. What a person does on his or her own time is his or her own business. As long as he or she fulfills all the job requirements with shining colors, he or she should never be held back because of 'lifestyle' differences.

When people try to justify this with, "Would you want a druggie flying a fighter jet?"

I say, "If you're a fighter pilot, and you kick ass, it will not matter because you will perform everything whether or not you did anything wrong on your private time."

Next thing you know, you won't be able to become a cop if you go home and have a beer each night...

Your "lifestyle" makes you more/less of a target for blackmail.

 

[jiggahertz]

Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel

Originally posted by: Drako
And lifestyle polys do tend to rule out gays, and other "deviant" behavior 🙂.

I don't really get that sometimes. I always thought that homosexuals faced problems in deeply religious & conservative societies (since pretty much all major religions are intolerant of homosexuality). The US doesn't have a State Religion - so what difference does it make?

Some homosexuals are not open about their lifestyle and may be more likely to take actions to keep that information out of other's hands.

 

[jiggahertz]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Drako

Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel

Originally posted by: Drako
And lifestyle polys do tend to rule out gays, and other "deviant" behavior 🙂.

I don't really get that sometimes. I always thought that homosexuals faced problems in deeply religious & conservative societies (since pretty much all major religions are intolerant of homosexuality). The US doesn't have a State Religion - so what difference does it make?

I'm guessing the reasoning is that being gay opens up the possibility of being bribed or manipulated in some way, if that person were in the closet.

What department did you do work for that asked your sexual preference? I work for State and that is a BIG no no.

DoD investigator asked if I participate in any unusual sexual behavior. I asked him to clarify unusual, but can't remember if homosexuality was included in that.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: hscorpio
I guess I should chime in since that was my post you're talking about. Supposedly they ask about past drug use because it is an indicator that a person is willing to break the law and is therefore more likely to break the law in the future and compromise secret information. Personally I think its strange that out of all the laws on the books, the government chooses to focus on what is arguably one of the most trivial, especially with weed.

They might as well ask people if they have ever jay walked, illegally downloaded files, or used alcohol & cigs as a minor. It would give them the same information about whether or not the person abides the law. Could you imagine if they disqualified people that drank alcohol before they we're of legal age. Why don't they? If the goal is to determine if a person respects the law wouldn't it be more valuable to ask if they have ever broken a more meaningful law?

I just think its crazy that many qualified people are being passed up because they smoked some pot in the last 7 years, meanwhile they don't even ask if you've ever broken any serious laws and didn't get caught.😕

As I recall the only crimes you had to report when you where not arrested where drug use and trying to violently overthrow the US government.

 

[jiggahertz]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Drako

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Drako
It may also suprise some of you that if you where in the Peace Corp, you will probably never get any type of government clearance. Conflicting missions and all that 🙂.

That is not true. I am not sure where you got that. I have sent plenty of clearance packets out to those that have done Peace Corp.


What department did you do work for that asked your sexual preference?

Let's just say different parts of the "Intelligence" community, and leave it at that.

DEPARTMENT, What do you work for? There are rules against asking and/or using sexual preference for not hiring.
Also your bit about peace corps is also BS.

There are rules about what you can ask for hiring. Obtaining a security clearance is not the same thing although they go hand in hand for many jobs.

 

[jiggahertz]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: hscorpio
I guess I should chime in since that was my post you're talking about. Supposedly they ask about past drug use because it is an indicator that a person is willing to break the law and is therefore more likely to break the law in the future and compromise secret information. Personally I think its strange that out of all the laws on the books, the government chooses to focus on what is arguably one of the most trivial, especially with weed.

They might as well ask people if they have ever jay walked, illegally downloaded files, or used alcohol & cigs as a minor. It would give them the same information about whether or not the person abides the law. Could you imagine if they disqualified people that drank alcohol before they we're of legal age. Why don't they? If the goal is to determine if a person respects the law wouldn't it be more valuable to ask if they have ever broken a more meaningful law?

I just think its crazy that many qualified people are being passed up because they smoked some pot in the last 7 years, meanwhile they don't even ask if you've ever broken any serious laws and didn't get caught.😕

As I recall the only crimes you had to report when you where not arrested where drug use and trying to violently overthrow the US government.

Depends on the investigation, but there is usually an open ended catch all question along the lines of, "Is there anything else that may preclude you from obtaining a security clearance".

 

[gamepad]

The ignorance here about marijuana is strong.

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: bum

Originally posted by: meltdown75
I can see why they do the testing and the questioning. Pot does, after all, turn you into a schizo.

*taps sarcasm meter* 😕

yep, yours is broken.

 

[imported_hscorpio]

Originally posted by: Drako

Originally posted by: hscorpio

They might as well ask people if they have ever jay walked, illegally downloaded files, or used alcohol & cigs as a minor.

What makes you think that they don't ask those types of questions as well?

I'm going off what is asked in form SF-86. No where in that form are you asked if you've ever committed a crime but were never charged/convicted, except when it asks if you have used illegal drugs. As far as I know the polygraph questions are based on the information gathered from SF-86.

We're you asked if you ever drank alcohol before the age of 21?

 

[Drako]

Originally posted by: jiggahertz

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Drako

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Drako
It may also suprise some of you that if you where in the Peace Corp, you will probably never get any type of government clearance. Conflicting missions and all that 🙂.

That is not true. I am not sure where you got that. I have sent plenty of clearance packets out to those that have done Peace Corp.


What department did you do work for that asked your sexual preference?

Let's just say different parts of the "Intelligence" community, and leave it at that.

DEPARTMENT, What do you work for? There are rules against asking and/or using sexual preference for not hiring.
Also your bit about peace corps is also BS.

There are rules about what you can ask for hiring. Obtaining a security clearance is not the same thing although they go hand in hand for many jobs.

Yep, hiring questions and security clearance questions are different things. Of course, some jobs require a security clearance, so, go figure 🙂.

 

[Drako]

Originally posted by: hscorpio

Originally posted by: Drako

Originally posted by: hscorpio

They might as well ask people if they have ever jay walked, illegally downloaded files, or used alcohol & cigs as a minor.

What makes you think that they don't ask those types of questions as well?

I'm going off what is asked in form SF-86. No where in that form are you asked if you've ever committed a crime but were never charged/convicted, except when it asks if you have used illegal drugs. As far as I know the polygraph questions are based on the information gathered from SF-86.

Many of the questions are based on what is on SF-86, many are not. I would guess that it depends on the type of clearance you are going for, and which group is administering the polygraph.

These days, the file sharing issue seems to be a big question, especially for younger people. That is certainly not on SF-86.

We're you asked if you ever drank alcohol before the age of 21?

That seems like a fair question to ask - I'm not sure if I've ever had that asked of me during a poly or not. They might use something like that as a control question, where they ask you to deliberately lie.