Webmasters: When do you *really* need to use frames?

[screw3d]

I have this simple assignment of creating a page. It's easy for me as I have already have some good background in HTML and CSS.

BUT the problem is, I'm required to use frames, and I absolutely hate it because I can most definitely use without it. I can accomplish a lot of different layouts using CSS alone..

So.. when do I really need them? When does it only makes sense to use frames?

Edit: Anyone has a link that shows the percentage of different web browsers people use? I think it was from w3c.org or something. I can't find it

 

[igowerf]

I used to use frames to do what I do with PHP now. It was mainly for a menu or header that I could update without updating every single webpage. I don't know why anyone would use frames now for a webpage.

I think the Adobe help files use frames to have the menu on the left and the documentation on the right.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Independent scrolling areas? Or can you do that with CSS?



<-- still living back in HTML 3.2 spec

 

[MrChad]

CSS is not always an option when backward compatibility with older browsers is required.

 

[ProviaFan]

Any more, I've taken on the attitude of "screw NN4.x" when it comes to CSS design. Maybe if you're CNN or some big e-commerce site, you might have a marginal interest in preserving compatibility for that outdated dinosaur, but CSS makes it so much easier to make pretty and consistent pages while simultaneously making accessibility to text only browsers and blind "viewers" so much better.

Anyway, I personally would only use frames to do pages similar in purpose to MSDN, or in rare cases for a thumbnail-and-enlargement photo gallery type view (most galleries are better off done in a table).

AFAIK, it's possible to simulate an IFRAME with CSS, but how compatible that is even across recent browsers, I don't know.

 

[WobbleWobble]

Originally posted by: jliechty
Any more, I've taken on the attitude of "screw NN4.x" when it comes to CSS design

Same here. Over 95% of the people visiting my organization's web sites are IE4+. The rest are Mozilla and such, very few are still N4.

It's just an assignment. Teaching examples tend to be different than what you normally would do. Just use Frames for a navigation menu or something. Just make them borderless if you want it to still look pretty.

 

[replicator]

Ya, I agree, there is no need for frames.

I think we should all be using the latest standards like CSS and ECMAscript. This will help make people upgrade their browsers, which I think is a good thing. I don't think there is many valid reasons anyone should be using a browser version from 3 years ago.

 

[screw3d]

There is a way to do independent scrolling areas via CSS.. check out Mozilla Firebird's page although personally I don't know how yet

As for compatibility, I agree with the "screw NN4.x" thought I mean, come on!! There isn't a lot of people using Netscape x.x, let alone specifically v4.x!

If a browser supports CSS, chances are (in fact, definitely) it would support frames right?

 

[MrChad]

Originally posted by: screw3d
As for compatibility, I agree with the "screw NN4.x" thought I mean, come on!! There isn't a lot of people using Netscape x.x, let alone specifically v4.x!

I can't stand Netscape 4.x, but the fact of the matter is that many organizations (esp. government organizations) still have 4.x deployed across many clients. As a result, 4.x compatibility still comes up as a requirement for web applications.

 

[foofoo]

Originally posted by: MrChad

Originally posted by: screw3d
As for compatibility, I agree with the "screw NN4.x" thought I mean, come on!! There isn't a lot of people using Netscape x.x, let alone specifically v4.x!

I can't stand Netscape 4.x, but the fact of the matter is that many organizations (esp. government organizations) still have 4.x deployed across many clients. As a result, 4.x compatibility still comes up as a requirement for web applications.

ha ha,
at the lawrence berkeley national lab, until recently (like in the last 6 months) netscape 4.x was the standard software load for browser and imap mail. this didnt keep people with unmanaged computers from installing newer browsers though.
still a lot of required 4.x users out there.

 

[eklass]

never ever ever ever

iframe are occassionally useful though (but only if you're cool enough)