Webmaster goes to prison for posting words

[dmcowen674]

Webmaster goes to prison for posting words

A Webmaster's 25th hour
By Declan McCullagh
August 13, 2003, 4:00 AM PT

Sherman Austin is looking forward to a year in federal prison with the kind of equanimity that most people reserve for a trip
to the doctor's office.

The 20-year-old anarchist was charged with distributing information about Molotov cocktails and "Drano bombs" on his Web site, Raisethefist.com. Under a 1997 federal law championed by Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., it is illegal to publish such instructions with the intent that readers commit "a federal crime of violence."

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He had a public defender and faced 20 years in Prison under the Patriot Act.

He chose to accept a plea aggreement that he is guilty and 1 year prison sentence serving anywhere from 6 to 12 months actually behind bars in Federal Prison or a Federal Minimum Security Camp.

He didn't do anything physically other than post words that were already out there on the Internet. A carnegie Mellon University Professor has a mirror of his site up and has not been harrased or charged under the same Patriot Act.

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Webmaster goes to prison for posting words

A Webmaster's 25th hour
By Declan McCullagh
August 13, 2003, 4:00 AM PT

Sherman Austin is looking forward to a year in federal prison with the kind of equanimity that most people reserve for a trip
to the doctor's office.

The 20-year-old anarchist was charged with distributing information about Molotov cocktails and "Drano bombs" on his Web site, Raisethefist.com. Under a 1997 federal law championed by Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., it is illegal to publish such instructions with the intent that readers commit "a federal crime of violence."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He had a public defender and faced 20 years in Prison under the Patriot Act.

He chose to accept a plea aggreement that he is guilty and 1 year prison sentence serving anywhere from 6 to 12 months actually behind bars in Federal Prison or a Federal Minimum Security Camp.

He didn't do anything physically other than post words that were already out there on the Internet. A carnegie Mellon University Professor has a mirror of his site up and has not been harrased or charged under the same Patriot Act.

It's a sad day indeed when we have lost our voice. I thought it wasn't a crime to conspire to commit a crime, with the exception of murder?

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Webmaster goes to prison for posting words

A Webmaster's 25th hour
By Declan McCullagh
August 13, 2003, 4:00 AM PT

Sherman Austin is looking forward to a year in federal prison with the kind of equanimity that most people reserve for a trip
to the doctor's office.

The 20-year-old anarchist was charged with distributing information about Molotov cocktails and "Drano bombs" on his Web site, Raisethefist.com. Under a 1997 federal law championed by Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., it is illegal to publish such instructions with the intent that readers commit "a federal crime of violence."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He had a public defender and faced 20 years in Prison under the Patriot Act.

He chose to accept a plea aggreement that he is guilty and 1 year prison sentence serving anywhere from 6 to 12 months actually behind bars in Federal Prison or a Federal Minimum Security Camp.

He didn't do anything physically other than post words that were already out there on the Internet. A carnegie Mellon University Professor has a mirror of his site up and has not been harrased or charged under the same Patriot Act.

by Feinstein you don't say...Guess republicans aren't the only ones that like to take away peoples rights

 

[Czar]

sickening, has the patriot act been approved by congress?

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: Czar
sickening, has the patriot act been approved by congress?

Well yeah, in the fear and chaos following 911 was the perfect environment for the administration to push this piece of art through congress, who of course were still swept up in emotions and ddn't seem to give the act much thought. Now hoever, many congress members are having second thoughts and IIRC there are plans in the works to rollback some parts of PA.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: lozina

Originally posted by: Czar
sickening, has the patriot act been approved by congress?

Well yeah, in the fear and chaos following 911 was the perfect environment for the administration to push this piece of art through congress, who of course were still swept up in emotions and ddn't seem to give the act much thought. Now hoever, many congress members are having second thoughts and IIRC there are plans in the works to rollback some parts of PA.

just because I remember when it was first presented everyone here said it would be put down by congress

 

[ClueLis]

Wasn't there a site called "Jolly Roger's Cookbook" a number of years ago about making bombs that met a similar fate?

 

[Zebo]

Country is going communist police state. Between Reagan IRS and Drug seizures, Clintons waco, and Bush PA I&II the constitutional bill of rights has almost entirely disappeared the lst 25 years from it's original simple language and founders intent.

Secondly anyone with a trip to the univeristy library ans rudementry lab techniques can find out how to make much more manacing drugs/explosives/fuels/bio/chem weapons. Not only that you can learn to make the precursers there so you don't show up on FBI computer when making your batch of LSD. This is dumb and unconsitutional ... If we ever wanted to have a revolution from the police state they are making it very difficult taking our guns, limiting what we can buy, and limiting knowledge. Welcome to Nazi Germany.. (bit of hyperbole there)

 

[Corn]

Country is going communist police state. Between Reagan IRS and Drug seizures, Clintons waco, and Bush PA I&II the constitutional bill of rights has almost entirely disappeared the lst 25 years from it's original simple language and founders intent.

Vote Pat Robertson, he'll patch up our tattered constitution.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Webmaster goes to prison for posting words

A Webmaster's 25th hour
By Declan McCullagh
August 13, 2003, 4:00 AM PT

Sherman Austin is looking forward to a year in federal prison with the kind of equanimity that most people reserve for a trip
to the doctor's office.

The 20-year-old anarchist was charged with distributing information about Molotov cocktails and "Drano bombs" on his Web site, Raisethefist.com. Under a 1997 federal law championed by Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., it is illegal to publish such instructions with the intent that readers commit "a federal crime of violence."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He had a public defender and faced 20 years in Prison under the Patriot Act.

He chose to accept a plea aggreement that he is guilty and 1 year prison sentence serving anywhere from 6 to 12 months actually behind bars in Federal Prison or a Federal Minimum Security Camp.

He didn't do anything physically other than post words that were already out there on the Internet. A carnegie Mellon University Professor has a mirror of his site up and has not been harrased or charged under the same Patriot Act.

by Feinstein you don't say...Guess republicans aren't the only ones that like to take away peoples rights

Well I wouldn't say all Republicans are the enemy of the people.

 

[UltraQuiet]

I also noticed that the much maligned Justice Dept. (Ashcroft, et al.) recommended a much lighter sentence than what was handed down. I wonder what crawled up the judges ass.

 

[DurocShark]

:|

...as our rights trickle away...

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
I also noticed that the much maligned Justice Dept. (Ashcroft, et al.) recommended a much lighter sentence than what was handed down. I wonder what crawled up the judges ass.

Could it of been the fact that Asshat recently order that all the records of all judges who pass "light" sentences be passed on to him for review ? If I were a fed judge I wouldn't be passing any light sentences no matter who reccommended it, because you never know when Asshat might use that judgement against you later on down the road.

 

[UltraQuiet]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
I also noticed that the much maligned Justice Dept. (Ashcroft, et al.) recommended a much lighter sentence than what was handed down. I wonder what crawled up the judges ass.

Could it of been the fact that Asshat recently order that all the records of all judges who pass "light" sentences be passed on to him for review ? If I were a fed judge I wouldn't be passing any light sentences no matter who reccommended it, because you never know when Asshat might use that judgement against you later on down the road.

If you had applied both your brain cells to what the Justice Dept. said you would have noticed that the directive was for reporting sentences that were not the result of a plea bargain or recommended by the prosecutor.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Corn

Country is going communist police state. Between Reagan IRS and Drug seizures, Clintons waco, and Bush PA I&II the constitutional bill of rights has almost entirely disappeared the lst 25 years from it's original simple language and founders intent.

Vote Pat Robertson, he'll patch up our tattered constitution.

I would'nt vote for that Pat

although his kids and followers arn't blowing people up...something to be said for that at least..dispite endorsing a police state with thier "moral" crusade..

 

[Corn]

Robertson, Buchannan, what's the difference?

 

[Zebo]

Catholics don't try and convert you...that's so 19th century

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Czar
sickening, has the patriot act been approved by congress?

They are looking to pass Patriot Act II this coming session. If you think the Patriot Act took away Civil Liberties and Rights take a gander at II.

Just wonder how long it will take for the upper part of the U.S. Caste system (the super wealthy) to start getting caught up in these new Acts that even they can't keep themselves from being locked up in the ever growing Prison system as well.

 

[Tab]

This is new? Its insanely easy to find bomb making instructions on the internet? Or did the SOB live in the states? Reguardless I dont feel bad for him.

 

[KenGr]

Originally posted by: DaiShan<br
It's a sad day indeed when we have lost our voice. I thought it wasn't a crime to conspire to commit a crime, with the exception of murder?

Where did you get that idea?

It's always been against the law to "aid and abet" a felony.

Thousands of people are in jail for "conspiring" to commit fraud, burglary, etc.

The issue here, which is arguable, is whether the intent of publicizing the information is equivalent to encouraging (abetting) a crime. The law noted was passed to clarify that. It says, in essence, that there is no lawful purpose, in disseminating this type of information. The "horse is out of the barn" argument doesn't hold as much weight here as it does in some other arenas such as copyright litigation. It's kind of equivalent to saying that since some child pornography exists you can't prosecute anyone for child pornography.

There are some issues to be argued here but the classic free speech arguments aren't applicable.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: KenGr

Originally posted by: DaiShan<br
It's a sad day indeed when we have lost our voice. I thought it wasn't a crime to conspire to commit a crime, with the exception of murder?

Where did you get that idea?

It's always been against the law to "aid and abet" a felony.

Thousands of people are in jail for "conspiring" to commit fraud, burglary, etc.

The issue here, which is arguable, is whether the intent of publicizing the information is equivalent to encouraging (abetting) a crime. The law noted was passed to clarify that. It says, in essence, that there is no lawful purpose, in disseminating this type of information. The "horse is out of the barn" argument doesn't hold as much weight here as it does in some other arenas such as copyright litigation. It's kind of equivalent to saying that since some child pornography exists you can't prosecute anyone for child pornography.

There are some issues to be argued here but the classic free speech arguments aren't applicable.

Agreed.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Tabb

Originally posted by: KenGr

Originally posted by: DaiShan<br
It's a sad day indeed when we have lost our voice. I thought it wasn't a crime to conspire to commit a crime, with the exception of murder?

Where did you get that idea?

It's always been against the law to "aid and abet" a felony.

Thousands of people are in jail for "conspiring" to commit fraud, burglary, etc.

The issue here, which is arguable, is whether the intent of publicizing the information is equivalent to encouraging (abetting) a crime. The law noted was passed to clarify that. It says, in essence, that there is no lawful purpose, in disseminating this type of information. The "horse is out of the barn" argument doesn't hold as much weight here as it does in some other arenas such as copyright litigation. It's kind of equivalent to saying that since some child pornography exists you can't prosecute anyone for child pornography.

There are some issues to be argued here but the classic free speech arguments aren't applicable.

Agreed.

Agreed to a point. I don't see the punishment fitting the crime here. Making the guy a Felon and ruined for the rest of his life over words?

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Czar
sickening, has the patriot act been approved by congress?

They are looking to pass Patriot Act II this coming session. If you think the Patriot Act took away Civil Liberties and Rights take a gander at II.

Just wonder how long it will take for the upper part of the U.S. Caste system (the super wealthy) to start getting caught up in these new Acts that even they can't keep themselves from being locked up in the ever growing Prison system as well.

Patriot Act II has little support. Its like 90 against 10 for. Infact both alot democrats and republicans alike are wanting to do away with parts of the patriot act.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: ClueLis
Wasn't there a site called "Jolly Roger's Cookbook" a number of years ago about making bombs that met a similar fate?

You mean the Anarchist's cookbook. Written by the Jolly Roger. Thought to be a CIA agent trying to get kids to do stupid things because half of the book is wrong/incomplete.

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: KenGr

Originally posted by: DaiShan<br
It's a sad day indeed when we have lost our voice. I thought it wasn't a crime to conspire to commit a crime, with the exception of murder?

Where did you get that idea?

It's always been against the law to "aid and abet" a felony.

Thousands of people are in jail for "conspiring" to commit fraud, burglary, etc.

The issue here, which is arguable, is whether the intent of publicizing the information is equivalent to encouraging (abetting) a crime. The law noted was passed to clarify that. It says, in essence, that there is no lawful purpose, in disseminating this type of information. The "horse is out of the barn" argument doesn't hold as much weight here as it does in some other arenas such as copyright litigation. It's kind of equivalent to saying that since some child pornography exists you can't prosecute anyone for child pornography.

There are some issues to be argued here but the classic free speech arguments aren't applicable.

You were right, I was confused. And yes as of late it has become more and more common to outlaw information (including computer programs) that has no potential legal use. Admittedly I haven't done much research on the topic yet, so most of this will just be theory, but here is my take on it. Thomas Paine's Common Sense had no legal purpose under the laws of the king. It's sole purpose was to incite the populous into revolution. Yet this is considered a great work of literature, and was a contributing factor to the revolution which led to the country we enjoy today. I'm a firm believer in the market place of ideas, and that all ideas should be freely traded so that the good are kept while the bad are tossed out, by limiting the ability to speak freely on any issue we are putting a damper on the market place, which could result in restricted views. Limitation of speech in any manner adversely affects the market place of ideas, which is the very foundation of innovation. To limit speech is to limit innovation, innovation is an american ideal, so to limit it would be to run against our own ideals.