webcam vs camcorder

[squirtle24]

Hello, I'm looking for some advice. Basically, I need to create a setup so I can stream live video of a baby to family members. It would also be handy to be able to look at the baby while at work. This would be over a cable connection, and I doubt more than three or four connections would be going at the same time.

A card with video-capture and a camcorder would produce quality video, but is there a point if I'm going to use it to stream live video? I figure even over cable, there must be some limit on size to keep the video rolling smoothly, not to mention the load on the computer.

At this point, I'm looking at the Logitech Quickcam Pro 4000 and maybe different software for the streaming part. Password protection is obviously a must.

Anyone have any thoughts/advice on this or a better setup? Thanks.

 

[Continuity28]

Originally posted by: squirtle24
Hello, I'm looking for some advice. Basically, I need to create a setup so I can stream live video of a baby to family members. It would also be handy to be able to look at the baby while at work. This would be over a cable connection, and I doubt more than three or four connections would be going at the same time.

A card with video-capture and a camcorder would produce quality video, but is there a point if I'm going to use it to stream live video? I figure even over cable, there must be some limit on size to keep the video rolling smoothly, not to mention the load on the computer.

At this point, I'm looking at the Logitech Quickcam Pro 4000 and maybe different software for the streaming part. Password protection is obviously a must.

Anyone have any thoughts/advice on this or a better setup? Thanks.

Don't consider a Digital camera for streaming purposes, if that's what you mean by camera. DV is far too big to stream. Webcams are best for this, but alas I'm not the expert on webcams.

What you linked to is more like what you want, not something you plug into a TV capture card.

 

[Matthias99]

I would think a webcam would be easiest for this, as it would probably come with all the software, etc. you need. I'm not sure if a camcorder would come with much of anything for doing this, but there's probably stuff you can download/buy that will stream a video feed over an internet connection. As the previous poster noted, you're probably not going to be able to stream DV over the 'net, unless you have had a T1 line put in at your place.

Find out how much upstream bandwidth your cable internet service provides. You cannot send more than that amount of upstream data per second. So if you have, say, 1Mbps upstream, and you are streaming a 256Kbps video, you can support (theoretically) four simultaneous viewers.

 

[Continuity28]

Originally posted by: Matthias99
I would think a webcam would be easiest for this, as it would probably come with all the software, etc. you need. I'm not sure if a camcorder would come with much of anything for doing this, but there's probably stuff you can download/buy that will stream a video feed over an internet connection. As the previous poster noted, you're probably not going to be able to stream DV over the 'net, unless you have had a T1 line put in at your place.

Find out how much upstream bandwidth your cable internet service provides. You cannot send more than that amount of upstream data per second. So if you have, say, 1Mbps upstream, and you are streaming a 256Kbps video, you can support (theoretically) four simultaneous viewers.

Just for reference, I believe DV is 3.7MB/s and T1 would only be 1.5Mbit up/down, you'd need the server to have a connection 20 times faster than T1, the viewer would need the same. (T3)

 

[squirtle24]

Heh, yeah, I figured DV wasn't very realistic, but while searching around old webcam posts on AT, it was mentioned fairly often. Perhaps they weren't referring to streaming.

I guess I will have to stick with the Logitech webcam and see how it goes. If anyone has a better suggestion for a webcam, please mention it.

Thanks.

 

[vegetation]

I wouldn't use a webcam for that. Buy an old camcorder, or just buy a digital camcorder since they're so cheap these days anyways. They work a lot better indoors because webcams suck horribly in low light conditions. So unless you want a bright light to shining in your baby's face, I'd suggest getting a camcorder feed.

I think some people are confused to what a camcorder stream would be. Obviously, you're not using the entire full glory DVD mode, but there's an old saying, garbage in, garbage out. Cheap webcams typically have plastic lens with tiny sensors vs a camcorder's glass lens and normal sized sensor. You can easily step down the resolution and it'll still look a thousand times better than a cheap webcam's image.

Another alternative is to buy a decent webcam from Axis or something. Those are quality but very expensive.

 

[Continuity28]

Originally posted by: vegetation
I wouldn't use a webcam for that. Buy an old camcorder, or just buy a digital camcorder since they're so cheap these days anyways. They work a lot better indoors because webcams suck horribly in low light conditions. So unless you want a bright light to shining in your baby's face, I'd suggest getting a camcorder feed.

I think some people are confused to what a camcorder stream would be. Obviously, you're not using the entire full glory DVD mode, but there's an old saying, garbage in, garbage out. Cheap webcams typically have plastic lens with tiny sensors vs a camcorder's glass lens and normal sized sensor. You can easily step down the resolution and it'll still look a thousand times better than a cheap webcam's image.

Another alternative is to buy a decent webcam from Axis or something. Those are quality but very expensive.

Oh..

I thought he wanted something live he could watch from work and show family. If you had it filming with DV and then convert it to a different format for streaming purposes, that wouldn't really be live right? It takes a while to convert DV, and I don't think it can be automated...

 

[vegetation]

Originally posted by: Continuity28

Originally posted by: vegetation
I wouldn't use a webcam for that. Buy an old camcorder, or just buy a digital camcorder since they're so cheap these days anyways. They work a lot better indoors because webcams suck horribly in low light conditions. So unless you want a bright light to shining in your baby's face, I'd suggest getting a camcorder feed.

I think some people are confused to what a camcorder stream would be. Obviously, you're not using the entire full glory DVD mode, but there's an old saying, garbage in, garbage out. Cheap webcams typically have plastic lens with tiny sensors vs a camcorder's glass lens and normal sized sensor. You can easily step down the resolution and it'll still look a thousand times better than a cheap webcam's image.

Another alternative is to buy a decent webcam from Axis or something. Those are quality but very expensive.

Oh..

I thought he wanted something live he could watch from work and show family. If you had it filming with DV and then convert it to a different format for streaming purposes, that wouldn't really be live right? It takes a while to convert DV, and I don't think it can be automated...

I had P166 that could resize an analog video input stream on the fly in 1996 so I'm pretty sure any computer today can do the same instantly, in real time.

 

[randym431]

Get a Dlink DCS900 or DCS900W (to go wireless). These are internet cams that use your router. Just plug it in, set the address and anyone with your address link can view. All you need is a pc with java enabled.
I have four of these (one wired, 3 wireless) to monitor the pets while we work. Works great. And with the wireless cams, you just need a a/c plug in, and can easily move the cam to other locations for viewing.
Do a search on dcs900 (wired) or dcs900w (wireless). I think tiger direct has some around $80.
These cams do not need a pc connection at all. Only a free plug on your router or just add if you all ready have a wireless router.

Dlink has an advanced webcam with a controled motor and audio, but for around $300.
That works the same way as the dcs900w, but viewers can also move the cam via its motor, and hear audio. All java controlled by any pc.

Naturally, your child will want you to sign a royalties contract. Maybe get an agent too.

PS, Just checking tiger direct, looks like they raised their prices on this from $80 to $114. I'd shop around for a better price. But here's their cam link.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications...-Details.asp?EdpNo=93455&sku=D700-2260

 

[bob4432]

what about windows media encoder? is is free software and should handle what you want to do as far as streaming, plus you can pic the audio/video settings. you can limit the ips that can connect, but it doesn't look like it is password protected.

 

[SunSamurai]

Whats with all this rabble? Get a $20 webcam and use MSN to video and audio chat with them. You do not need to mess with routers or weird software. Do not be tricked and go for a $50 webcam. This is the internet here, the quality differance between a $20 webcam and a $100 webcam are not seen by the time the video gets to the person you want it to.

Make sure the room is well lit.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: aeternitas
Whats with all this rabble? Get a $20 webcam and use MSN to video and audio chat with them. You do not need to mess with routers or weird software. Do not be tricked and go for a $50 webcam. This is the internet here, the quality differance between a $20 webcam and a $100 webcam are not seen by the time the video gets to the person you want it to.

Make sure the room is well lit.

can you have multiple connections with msn? are you sure you don't need any port forwarding?

 

[Continuity28]

Originally posted by: vegetation

Originally posted by: Continuity28

Originally posted by: vegetation
I wouldn't use a webcam for that. Buy an old camcorder, or just buy a digital camcorder since they're so cheap these days anyways. They work a lot better indoors because webcams suck horribly in low light conditions. So unless you want a bright light to shining in your baby's face, I'd suggest getting a camcorder feed.

I think some people are confused to what a camcorder stream would be. Obviously, you're not using the entire full glory DVD mode, but there's an old saying, garbage in, garbage out. Cheap webcams typically have plastic lens with tiny sensors vs a camcorder's glass lens and normal sized sensor. You can easily step down the resolution and it'll still look a thousand times better than a cheap webcam's image.

Another alternative is to buy a decent webcam from Axis or something. Those are quality but very expensive.

Oh..

I thought he wanted something live he could watch from work and show family. If you had it filming with DV and then convert it to a different format for streaming purposes, that wouldn't really be live right? It takes a while to convert DV, and I don't think it can be automated...

I had P166 that could resize an analog video input stream on the fly in 1996 so I'm pretty sure any computer today can do the same instantly, in real time.

If you just want to resize that's nothing, but a resized DV file is still DV, that won't stream unless it's like 20x13.34. You'd need to convert DV into a lossy format as well as resize in order to cut down on bandwidth, and thats not done in real time... Resizing can be frameserved but conversion is another story.

 

[Makaveli]

I disagree aeternitas. There is a huge difference between say the quickcam messenger and the Quickcam 4000pro. I've used both and now own the 4000pro buy it. difference in quality was noticable for me. not to mention better fps. As for multiple connnections u can't currently do that on msn, you might wanna look into a program called I-visit. which lets u setup a room, and have multiple connections.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: Makaveli
I disagree aeternitas. There is a huge difference between say the quickcam messenger and the Quickcam 4000pro. I've used both and now own the 4000pro buy it. difference in quality was noticable for me. not to mention better fps. As for multiple connnections u can't currently do that on msn, you might wanna look into a program called I-visit. which lets u setup a room, and have multiple connections.

does i-visit offer password protection? is it free?

 

[bob4432]

just for sh!ts and giggle, i set this up:

a sony pc5 minidv camcorder going in via 1394 into windows media encoder 9. just enter dead link now into your media player where it asks for a network address and it should work.

this is just a test, and if it is not working, well, sorry, but it is working on my machines here around the condo. there does seem to be about a 5sec delay from the time whatever happens is transmitted to the media player. i have tried this in wm10 and also vlc.

using rig in sig, like i said just a test.

please let me know if you can see it - basically out the back of my condo, you will see tops of cars going by and a tree. just a proof of concept to see if it works.

there will be no audio and the video is 320x240 x 30fps and my cable connection should let 2 people on, if more join in, i will change the video to 15 fps so more can see how this works.

again, let me know if it works, you should be able to see the tree moving from the wind
thanks the horizontal black bars are supposed to be there, as i am shooting through mini blinds

f*ck, my wife had the camera last, it looks like she somehow put it in some kind of a demo mode, so you may get weird video.....

 

[Makaveli]

thats pretty decent I watching it right now

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: Makaveli
thats pretty decent I watching it right now

sorry for the f*cking demo of the features you have to watch but thanks for cheking it out - i should have bought a condo next to the pool....

cpu usage is ~25%

 

[bob4432]

i am able to get 3 connections on my lan, so it looks like possibly the 10connections built into xp pro, but who knows...

 

[bob4432]

the more clients, the more cpu, i guess since it is converting full minidv (720x480) stream into a 320x240 stream on the fly...and to the OP if your family has cable, which basically has static ips, you can control who sees it that way.

 

[bob4432]

shutting it down, thanks for those that took a look

 

[LED]

I yet to hook this up but I've read and heard it's like icing on the cake ...

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: LED
I yet to hook this up but I've read and heard it's like icing on the cake ...

windows media encoder works pretty nice, just basic. and wme does work via a minidv cam through firewire. the webcamdv has more features, but wme is free i know wme works well and i am sure webcamdv works well also as it does have a lot of features.

 

[squirtle24]

Hmm, food for thought.

For the DV test setup, was the quality at 320x240 superior to a webcam(like the Logitech Quickcam Pro 4k) at 320x240? Bottom line is, if it's better quality but doable, then that's what I'd go for.

Just to check, can you use that DV setup for a two-way conversation over an instant messenger?

Thanks for the information!

 

[SunSamurai]

Originally posted by: Makaveli
I disagree aeternitas. There is a huge difference between say the quickcam messenger and the Quickcam 4000pro. I've used both and now own the 4000pro buy it. difference in quality was noticable for me. not to mention better fps. As for multiple connnections u can't currently do that on msn, you might wanna look into a program called I-visit. which lets u setup a room, and have multiple connections.

Better FPS? I hope you realize thats dependant on your connection and the light in the room. nearly EVERY webcam made does 30. I'm telling you, on the END BEING RECIVED, any minimal differance is fully destroyed though compression.

What he otta do is get a $50 digital camera with webcam abilities so he can take some email quality stills and have streaming video.

if you plan on doing this in low light, youre better of with a camcorder with nightvision. may not be a bad idea, playing/working on your computer with the baby in a window in the corner to keep an eye on?