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Web Server OS

B

bluestrobe

Platinum Member
I tried to setup my web server project using SuSe Linux 10.0 OSS with no luck. I'm just not into the Linux way of doing things. I have been told by some pros that running a MS based web server is asking for trouble, even behind a firewall or router. Is this true? I plan on running on either Win2000 or XP using Apache, FTP, and VNC. I run everything behind a WRT54GS (will upgrade to an enterprise level firewall when money permits) and will only port forward to the server. Is this feasible or not worth trying?
 
Sure, it can be done safely. I'd be a little leary about logging in over straight ftp or vnc unless you have some kind of vpn or something around it. Not having sshd sucks.
 
you should consider installing cygwin so that you can run sshd. that way you can use sftp instead of ftp, which is less secure.
 
I'm a linux bigot...

and I say that server security is pretty much in the admin, not the OS. Secure a machine properly and it should be ok, linux or windows.

IIS5 has some issues though, you may check them. You say you are going to run apache. If you run apache on windows, and can config it, then you should be able to on linux.
 
Installing Apache on Linux is hard? I can't say I've used SuSe but I would figure there's an entry for it in YAST, on most distributions it's as simple as 'apt-get install apache' or 'yum install apache' and you're done.
 
errr...i thought apache was easily installable during installation time in linux?

personally, never had a problem there, but i'm not a newbie at linux either.

 
Doesn't Debian at installation ask if you're setting up a server? It then installs Apache, etc., no?
 
If you are going to block incoming traffic except on the ports you use for web and ftp services, then your biggest security risk is going to be the applications that you have listening on those ports. Keep your applications and your OS patched with the latest stuff, and use strong, long passwords, and you should be fine.

People run reliable web servers all the time on Windows Server. IIS 5.x wasn't quite as secure as it could have been, but you're not going to use it. As stated earlier, poor configuration can happen with both Windows and Linux. I've seen lots of Linux web sites defaced by hackers. And unpatched IIS and Windows 2000 have been hit, too.
 
Doesn't Debian at installation ask if you're setting up a server? It then installs Apache, etc., no?
Click to expand...

IIRC it'll ask you if you want to run tasksel and if you say yes it'll present you with some very basic options, one of which is "Web Server"

 
VNC is so I can run the web server in the computer room and work on it from my personal PC. It won't be exposed to the outside. I tinkered with Apache a little and thought about going that route but will try other windows based web applications if they are more to what I need.

I tried Linux however I tried to install VNC on it among a few other things and had nothing but problems. Most guides I found are for people who are at the medium level in Linux and who have patience. I know a little Linux and don't have patience to take 3 hours to get a program working when I can do it in less than 2 minutes in a Windows enviroment. Just a personal taste I guess.
 
instead of trying to use vnc on linux get youyrself a copy of debian, install a program called webmin
that makes easy work of admin tasks, just block traffic to that port from outside
 
I won't use debian. I tried it, spent 4 hours installing it just to learn I screwed up and would need to reinstall it, twice. Never again, sorry. Bad memories.
 
I tried Linux however I tried to install VNC on it among a few other things and had nothing but problems. Most guides I found are for people who are at the medium level in Linux and who have patience. I know a little Linux and don't have patience to take 3 hours to get a program working when I can do it in less than 2 minutes in a Windows enviroment. Just a personal taste I guess.
Click to expand...

The difference is that once you get to the level in Linux where things start to make sense, the tasks become a lot easier than their equivalent on Windows.

I won't use debian. I tried it, spent 4 hours installing it just to learn I screwed up and would need to reinstall it, twice. Never again, sorry. Bad memories.
Click to expand...

I won't ride a bike again. I tried it, spent 4 hours with training wheels just to learn that once I took them off I would fall off and bang up my knees, twice. Never again, sorry. Bad memories.
 
Originally posted by:

I won't ride a bike again. I tried it, spent 4 hours with training wheels just to learn that once I took them off I would fall off and bang up my knees, twice. Never again, sorry. Bad memories.
Click to expand...

Naw just demoralizing spending a whole weekend trying to get it to work and only to find out you installed the wrong modules or that you installed them wrong. I just moved onto other Linux distros. Why get stumped on one when there is others to choose from. That was back with v3 though 2 years ago. Linux is different than riding a bike too.
 
I remember my first home Linux box. I spent an entire weekend re-writing missing and incorrect files in the RedHat 5.1 Linux distribution. Just so I could get Netscape to browse the Internet.

ALL of us tend to forget the steep learning curve to become proficient with an OS (whether Linux, Windows Server, or ?). Especially if you want to provide a SECURE server that has access from the Internet. It's one thing to run a desktop box hidden behind a firewall. It's another thing to safely run a server with directly exposed ports.
 
Uhh, not to sound rude or anything, but if you get put off by having to spend 4 hours learning something, chances are, running a webserver just isn't for you.
Getting one up and running is simple, actually knowing how to run one in any kind of proper way isn't, and I wouldn't do it unless you're willing to spend time learning how.
 
Windows can make a perfectly fine server platform.. just that you'd either have to buy windows 2003 or run apache web server on 2000 or XP pro. Running IIS 5 is to much work to keep secure and it would still keep me up at night thinking: "did that weird thing happen yesterday because I got rooted?"
 
Originally posted by: bluestrobe
Originally posted by:

I won't ride a bike again. I tried it, spent 4 hours with training wheels just to learn that once I took them off I would fall off and bang up my knees, twice. Never again, sorry. Bad memories.
Click to expand...

Naw just demoralizing spending a whole weekend trying to get it to work and only to find out you installed the wrong modules or that you installed them wrong. I just moved onto other Linux distros. Why get stumped on one when there is others to choose from. That was back with v3 though 2 years ago. Linux is different than riding a bike too.
Click to expand...

Debian has changed ten-fold in how easy it is to install the OS/software. If you haven't tried it in 2 years, I would highly recommend taking another look at it. It doesn't get much easier, especially with the netinstall. Sorry to hear you'll be running windows.
 
Originally posted by: bluestrobe
I tried to setup my web server project using SuSe Linux 10.0 OSS with no luck. I'm just not into the Linux way of doing things. I have been told by some pros that running a MS based web server is asking for trouble, even behind a firewall or router. Is this true? I plan on running on either Win2000 or XP using Apache, FTP, and VNC. I run everything behind a WRT54GS (will upgrade to an enterprise level firewall when money permits) and will only port forward to the server. Is this feasible or not worth trying?
Click to expand...

If you're using 2000 Professional or XP, be aware that you have a 10 connection limit to your computer, limiting it's server capabilites.
 
Originally posted by: Sunner
Uhh, not to sound rude or anything, but if you get put off by having to spend 4 hours learning something, chances are, running a webserver just isn't for you.
Getting one up and running is simple, actually knowing how to run one in any kind of proper way isn't, and I wouldn't do it unless you're willing to spend time learning how.
Click to expand...


Actually it was eight hours as I tried twice then gave up and moved onto SuSe which I loved at the time. I ran a dual boot system with SuSe Linux 8.0 Pro and Windows XP for over a year spending about 50/50 time on each OS. The walk through guides for Debian at the time sucked (1. Put cd into drive, 2. Install, 3. Follow on screen directions, ect.) and the modules you had to choose weren't listed where anyone thats a beginner could install them. I still have SuSe 10.0 installed and will play with that some more from what I have heard however, I'm not leaving the windows option out as of yet.

 
appache on windows is just as hard as appache on linux. Either way your still going to have to edit config files and such. I suggest checking out XAMP ( http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html ) Its a nice easy setup and control system for apache/php/mail/ftp for linux, windows, etc. It will cut your learning curve down to a more managable level.
 
Either way you're still going to have to edit config files and such.
Click to expand...
I'd much rather edit a well-documented config file than hunt around a poorly-organized GUI config program. I run apache on XP and it's generally not hard to do most things. One thing that I hate about IIS is password-protecting folders. It's much more sensible in Apache.
 
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