Weapons cache found in Arizona

[Rob9874]

Originally posted by: Adul


peoria is ghetto i like where i live

northwest phoenix

Anything in the Phoenix city limits is more ghetto than Peoria. I lived at 89th ave/Bell, which is actually pretty nice. But there was just nothing to do there. If you want to go to a cool bar scene, you have to go to Mill or Scottsdale. You want to see the Cards play, you have to go to Tempe. Any fancy restaurant is in Scottsdale. Any fun event is usually on the east side. The only thing the west side has is Crickett Pavillion, and the upcoming Cards Stadium.

Actually, I like seeing the west side getting more stuff. My east side friends were pissed when they heard Glendale got the stadium. They are REAL elitests. I heard things like, "Why would they put the stadium way out in BFE? No one will go to games any more. West siders can't afford tickets. There's nothing out there but desert and the ghetto." They're bad!

 

[pyonir]

Someone is obviously against gun control in here

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: pyonir

Originally posted by: Spooner
hmmm.... i didn't know you were from AZ

i met a gorgeous gorgeous girl whom i've become gret friends with from phoenix

too bad you're gay

God dammit you're going to spread rumors of me by saying stuff like that.

/me runs to my storage shed to grab a machine gun, silencer, and tripod.

Woah!! You're not gay? since when?

What about all the gay pride marches and the Rainbow Power bumpersticker?

Next thing you know someone will say Adul is not a chick

 

[Harvey]

Bazooka seized in huge gun bust

Obviously used for target practice and small game and varmint hunting.

 

[pyonir]

Woah!! You're not gay? since when?

What about all the gay pride marches and the Rainbow Power bumpersticker?

Next thing you know someone will say Adul is not a chick

Dude, you are getting me and aphex confused.

 

[Damage]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

"Some of the weaponry is vintage but it's still quite deadly," the ATF spokesman said. "This is an arsenal of weapons, it's a staggering amount of weapons we're pulling out. It's frightening the amount of firepower we found in this place."

Oh good grief! Can this ATF spokesman pile it on any thicker?

Its 'staggering, frightening, shocking, I urinated all over myself at the sight of this frightening and staggering and deadly stock pile of dangerous and ultra-deadly weaponry.'

If I am familiar with the ATF's penchant for sensationalism, a proper reading of this ATF spokesman's statement would reveal the following translation:

"We just rail-roaded some guy who collects military relics and firearms. We've seized them all. None of them worked, there was never any danger, but look at how good of a job we're doing! All that money Congress gives us yields results! Never fear, the ATF is on the job, protecting America from harmless military relic collectors."

Jack booted thugs need funding too.. heheh..

Twits..

 

[jlee]

Following the seizure, federal agents took inventory of ammunition and shoulder-held weapons-stands placed in neat rows on the ground. They are conducting tests of the weapons to determine if they are functional.

If they're all non-fuctional (deactivated) and the ammunition is inert, I don't see why it's illegal..

 

[pyonir]

Originally posted by: CadetLee

Following the seizure, federal agents took inventory of ammunition and shoulder-held weapons-stands placed in neat rows on the ground. They are conducting tests of the weapons to determine if they are functional.

If they're all non-fuctional (deactivated) and the ammunition is inert, I don't see why it's illegal..

That's probably why they are testing them. I'd agree with you if that was the case. But if the guy already has been convicted in the past of a weapons violation, i doubt these will all be non-functional.

 

[pyonir]

Originally posted by: Adul
so you are admiting you are a hick
since you live way out east

Hey to pay $150 a month in rent, i'd live in the middle of Maryvale!

 

[DaFinn]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: pyonir

Originally posted by: Spooner
hmmm.... i didn't know you were from AZ

i met a gorgeous gorgeous girl whom i've become gret friends with from phoenix

too bad you're gay

God dammit you're going to spread rumors of me by saying stuff like that.

/me runs to my storage shed to grab a machine gun, silencer, and tripod.

Woah!! You're not gay? since when?

What about all the gay pride marches and the Rainbow Power bumpersticker?

Next thing you know someone will say Adul is not a chick

Ummmm... Adul is not a chick! Don't beleive me? Go ahead, ask her!

 

[tcsenter]

why is the bureau of alcohol, tobacco, and firearms, not just rolled into the FBI or something? and why are alcohol and tobacco stuck in with firearms?

Because the BATF began as a revenue enforcement arm of the US Treasury. Most gun control began as a taxation scheme, because it was widely held at the time that the Second Amendment was an individual right and that gun control for the sake of gun control was patently unconstitutional. So you had to come up with some other 'guise' to effectuate gun control.

The solution was to pass gun control laws under the 'color' of revenue measures by taxing the manufacture, transfer, or sale of firearms. Congress had the authority to raise revenue by taxing anything it liked, but gun control would be unconstitutional. Once you had a nexus to revenue, you could also pass all reasonable and necessary laws to effectuate the collection of this revenue. Enter gun registration.

That's how we got the National Firearms Act, the first major federal gun control legislation, which did not prohibit machine guns, it taxed them and was part of the IRS tax code.

Someone is obviously against gun control in here

The BATF has a notorious reputation for this kind of stuff. Seizing the collections of legitimate collectors, forcing them to go to court in order to get their guns back, going in like gang-busters into publicly advertised gun shows open to the public, forcing everyone in the place to give their names and addresses, inspecting every gun on the premises, because there 'might' be an illegal gun some where.

It would be like federal authorities raiding at gun-point a publicly advertised computer show just to look for some bootlegged CD's which they have no other probable cause to believe exists except that 'some times that kind of thing goes on at these computer shows.' Some years ago now, a federal judge ordered the BATF to stop raiding gun shows unless they obtained a warrant for this very reason.

The BATF's notorious behavior and penchant for sensationalism is the reason Senior House Democrat John Dingell of Michigan in 1980 had this bit of flattering commentary on the BATF:

"If I were to select a jack-booted group of fascists who were perhaps as large a danger to American society as I could pick today, I would pick BATF. They are a shame and a disgrace to our country."

They have improved in recent years, after having their budget cut, and threatened with more far-reaching sanctions, but that isn't saying much.

 

[Krye]

Wow, that's such a small cache. I knew somebody that had quite a bit more in his display case.... What I find disturbing and a sign of the times is that they had to explicitly state this:

The ATF spokesman said there is no indication at this time that the weapons have anything to do with terrorism.

 

[pyonir]

Looks like he was just a collector.

Text

Instead, they were owned by a Massachusetts man, an ex-convict from Arizona, who divulged the location of the Queen Creek arsenal after he was arrested last month in Massachusetts as part of an investigation into machine-gun trafficking.

BTW: i'm not for gun control, honestly i could care less. Just don't make everyone out to be an innocent collector. That is the case sometimes, but obviously this isn't the case here.

 

[Damage]

Uhhh.. If you have a felony it's my understanding you loose all your gun rights, so how could be be a "collector"? Plus, Class 3 weaponry (machine guns) is VERY regulated and taxed to high heaven.. So I doubt there was anything good happening there..

Too bad idiots like this make us all look bad.

 

[dquan97]

I bet he was planning on having a garage sale....

 

[crawford]

Originally posted by: Rob9874
Yeah, it's 10 minutes from where I live too (Chandler). I worry that some crazed person will bring that stuff to a highly visible workplace, like Intel. :|

Thats crazy i live in chandler too.

 

[Analog]

Originally posted by: Spooner

Originally posted by: pyonir

Originally posted by: Spooner
hmmm.... i didn't know you were from AZ
i met a gorgeous gorgeous girl whom i've become gret friends with from phoenix
too bad you're gay

God dammit you're going to spread rumors of me by saying stuff like that.
/me runs to my storage shed to grab a machine gun, silencer, and tripod.

I don't think that'll reach Boston

according to the 2nd amendment, this is just fine?!?

 

[tcsenter]

Uhhh.. If you have a felony it's my understanding you loose all your gun rights, so how could be be a "collector"? Plus, Class 3 weaponry (machine guns) is VERY regulated and taxed to high heaven.. So I doubt there was anything good happening there...

Uhhh...because that's how the BATF described him:

Scott E. Segal, 40, formerly of Tempe, was identified as a firearms collector convicted of a weapons violation in Arizona a decade ago.

The guy is probably a firearms and military relic collector who got raided 12 years ago and they found he possessed a silencer, or something the BATF's firearm experts testified in court as being a silencer, anyway. Or maybe he had a bayonet fixed to an SKS in violation of federal law. Or perhaps they found he converted a semi-auto to auto. Woah, really evil and dangerous stuff there, I only know about 40 people who have done the same kind of thing, all very innocently and harmlessly. Or maybe the BATF nailed him on some muddled 'grey area' of federal firearms laws and was found to own one of those prohibited 'ugly guns', perhaps a magazine which held two more rounds that are allowable. There are lots of those kinds of legal pitfalls in the federal firearms statutes.

My guess was a technical violation, or missing paper work. A "weapons violation" is pretty non-specific and can range from owning missiles to a clerical error in the required paper work.

 

[pyonir]

prison is filled with innocent people, as long as it was a firearms charge. They are all bogus.

 

[tcsenter]

prison is filled with innocent people, as long as it was a firearms charge. They are all bogus.

I never implied he didn't break the law, only that the firearms laws in this country are bullsh-t. You need an attorney to keep on top of the ever-changing and very muddled state and federal firearms laws, only the IRS tax code is more muddled and confusing. Except you don't get sent to prison for 10 years on a felony charge and lose your firearms rights if you misinterpret the IRS tax code.

As for the BATF, these goons are so hopelessly incompetent the ONLY people they can "catch" are those who run afoul of firearm laws by their ignorance, not because they had any criminal intent to do wrong or harm anyone.

 

[pyonir]

I'm done with you. How can you say you never implied when all you have done is defended the guy?

I'll stop there...no sense creating another stupid argument.

 

[tcsenter]

I'm done with you. How can you say you never implied when all you have done is defended the guy?

Because it can and does happen just as I described it. That you're ignorant of this reality doesn't mean it doesn't happen, it just means you're too ignorant to know it.

 

[pyonir]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

I'm done with you. How can you say you never implied when all you have done is defended the guy?

Because it can and does happen just as I described it. That you're ignorant of this reality doesn't mean it doesn't happen, it just means you're too ignorant to know it.

no, i know it happens. This case, doesn't appear to me to be what you have described. I'm probably one of the least ignorant people here, concerning this subject.

 

[Damage]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Uhhh.. If you have a felony it's my understanding you loose all your gun rights, so how could be be a "collector"? Plus, Class 3 weaponry (machine guns) is VERY regulated and taxed to high heaven.. So I doubt there was anything good happening there...

Uhhh...because that's how the BATF described him:

Scott E. Segal, 40, formerly of Tempe, was identified as a firearms collector convicted of a weapons violation in Arizona a decade ago.

The guy is probably a firearms and military relic collector who got raided 12 years ago and they found he possessed a silencer, or something the BATF's firearm experts testified in court as being a silencer, anyway. Or maybe he had a bayonet fixed to an SKS in violation of federal law. Or perhaps they found he converted a semi-auto to auto. Woah, really evil and dangerous stuff there, I only know about 40 people who have done the same kind of thing, all very innocently and harmlessly. Or maybe the BATF nailed him on some muddled 'grey area' of federal firearms laws and was found to own one of those prohibited 'ugly guns', perhaps a magazine which held two more rounds that are allowable. There are lots of those kinds of legal pitfalls in the federal firearms statutes.

My guess was a technical violation, or missing paper work. A "weapons violation" is pretty non-specific and can range from owning missiles to a clerical error in the required paper work.

I gotcha.. but if he was convicted 12 years ago, how can he be a collector of something he is not allowed to have anymore..? Maybe I just don't understand because I thought the law was that once you had a felony, no guns for you anymore. Sorry if I'm wrong...

You're probably right on the technical violations theory.. Remember the 1/4" undercut shotgun that started Ruby Ridge? Oh yeah.. It was a setup too because the BATF requested it that way and when he delivered it they busted him so they could get info on white supremacicts that He didn't even talk with that much.. The BATF abuses it's power too much..

 

[tcsenter]

I gotcha.. but if he was convicted 12 years ago, how can he be a collector of something he is not allowed to have anymore..? Maybe I just don't understand because I thought the law was that once you had a felony, no guns for you anymore. Sorry if I'm wrong...

If he is a felon he cannot have guns, unless he had his firearm rights restored by the BATF (very rare). What I'm saying is, he probably became a felon on some bullsh-t technical 'weapons violation', which means a lot of things, from very serious offenses, to very minor offenses. The BATF seems to know this guy as a firearms collector, you know, Public Enemy #1. Not a 'gun trafficker' or an 'illegal arms dealer', but one of those evil 'firearms collectors'.

Hell I've been a felon on a number of occasions. I once put a bayonet on an SKS, instant felon. I can own the bayonet, and I can own the SKS, but I can't have the bayonet affixed to the SKS = instant felon. I once converted an SKS to accept a detachable magazine = instant felon. I can own the magazine, I can own the SKS, but I cannot alter the SKS to accept the magazine = instant felon. I used to make my own black powder and pyrotechnical devices. Made some pretty large 'firecrackers'. Manufacture of explosive devices = felon. All told, I should be serving at least 3000 years in federal prison by now, I'm such a danger to the public and all.

There are a hundred more minor technicalities of the law which are equal in nature to having some 'prohibited' equipment on your car like an 'unapproved' carburetor in California, except you don't get sent to federal prison for 10 years for having an illegal carburetor. Maybe it will come to that, if the environuts have their way, as the antigun nuts have.

If I lost my gun rights to some minor technicality of the law, I probably wouldn't obey my firearms liablity, either.