WE THE PEOPLE are against tax cuts for the rich

[Zorkorist]

First, that's the preamble to the *Declaration of Independence*, not the constitution.

Second, I'd accuse you of spouting false, ignorant right-wing ideology - arguing for aristocracy - but that'd be unfair to right-wing ideology.

You're simply projecting. You seem to think you're noble, not like the rabble rousers, for not wanting to commit 'bank robbery' against the rich, but in fact you are horribly ignorant and demanding our nation adopt policies that will impoverish the people of the country in the interests of the rich owning more and more, and you presumably have no ideas you are being a parrot for the propaganda.

A moment ago, I was reading the article about how the propagandist Frank Lutz camp up with the lie the Obama Healthcare plan is 'government takeover' of medicine.

It is nothing but a lie that is good at fooling people to oppose it, like any good propaganda. A poll showed 53% fell for the propaganda.

That's you, a dupe for the propaganda, thinking your 'bank robbery' is anything else.

American idiot voters are a major threat to our society, so easy to manipulate by well-funded propaganda into betraying the American people.

At a time the rich are *skyrocketing* their share of all wealth in the country, you are here fighting against their being harmed by greedy American people.

LOL, Craig...

I am by no means an idiot voter, nor do I parrot things I have been fed.

Keep in mind that YOU are the one asking for a socialist, communist state, and that I am the one asking for freedom.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

The intent of the Constitution was to allow the people to decide how the Government would act within the broad limits of the Constitution. The Constitution was the foundation for the house, not the house itself.

You fail at logic.

No, if you reread the Constitution, you will see that Government reserved for itself all sorts of powers.

As we see it exercising today.

-John

 

[LegendKiller]

Its so easy for X% of the people to say they want to tax the other (100 - X) %

If you could place 40% of the population in the "right" or "left" crowd, the 20% in the middle, and of that 40%, 2.5% represented the "right" or "left" share of the wealthy, then I would say it's easy for 37.5% of the population to be suckers for the 2.5% of the population who cram supply-side economics down the 37.5%'s population's throat, especially when the 37.5% can't defend themselves from PACs and lobbyists because the 2.5% buys airspace and politicians to blow hot air and news channels to parrot the trash.

Furthermore, the 37.5% decry beggaring the 2.5% when, in fact, the expiration of the tax cuts would only cost somebody making 1,000,000/yr, or 83,000/mo (assume 42k take home), only $800/mo.

Only the idiotic 37.5% would believe that somebody making 42,000/mo, or 1,400/day, would give a shit about $800/mo, or about a half day's work.

Furthermore, only the idiotic 37.5% would believe that the half day's work would affect the 2.5%'s economic actions, when, in fact, the 2.5% save the vast majority of the $43,000/mo, taking the money out of circulation, and begetting more wealth.


Now, taking into account all of that, just which group do you fit into and just which group do you feel pity for? Are you really rooting for the 2.5%? Do they really give a flying fuck through a rolling donut for you?

Are you just a tool, a means to an end, of increasing their wealth through misinformation?


I daresay, yes, you are a tool. You don't make $42,000/mo, but you weep tears for the guy who does and he's laughing all of the way to the bank.

 

[Zorkorist]

lol, legendkiller...

Can we just do away with freedom right now?

-John

 

[LegendKiller]

No, if you reread the Constitution, you will see that Government reserved for itself all sorts of powers.

As we see it exercising today.

-John

And you will see that the Constitution allowed for Congress to amend the Constitution or pass laws for the governance of the country.

The Constitution is for the living, not the dead. To assume that men of the 18th century knew everything how the future would develop and how a society would need to adapt is moronic. But hey, as long as we deny voting to blacks and women, it's all good, right?

 

[LegendKiller]

lol, legendkiller...

Can we just do away with freedom right now?

-John

No, but you've already done away with logic.

 

[Zorkorist]

And you will see that the Constitution allowed for Congress to amend the Constitution or pass laws for the governance of the country.

The Constitution is for the living, not the dead. To assume that men of the 18th century knew everything how the future would develop and how a society would need to adapt is moronic. But hey, as long as we deny voting to blacks and women, it's all good, right?

The Constitution was RICH Americans deciding how Government should be.

It was later amended to add the bill of rights, because it was so onerous to normal people.

Today we see how onerous it is, because Governemt is everywhere.

-John

 

[LegendKiller]

The Constitution was RICH Americans deciding how Government should be.

It was later amended to add the bill of rights, because it was so onerous to normal people.

Today we see how onerous it is, because Governemt is everywhere.

-John

Because "normal" people wanted it to be there, within the limits of the Constitution.

 

[Zorkorist]

There is very little life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness left in America today.

It's all under Government.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

Because "normal" people wanted it to be there, within the limits of the Constitution.

Yes... now you are beginning to see it.

People are failures when they try and Govern each other. Government is a failure, when it stops people from pursuing life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

-John

 

[matt0611]

...

Are you just a tool, a means to an end, of increasing their wealth through misinformation?


I daresay, yes, you are a tool. You don't make $42,000/mo, but you weep tears for the guy who does and he's laughing all of the way to the bank.

Well I want everyone to have more wealth, yes, rich, middle, poor, everyone. In fact, I want everyone to be "rich".

I want the government to stop taking so much of my taxes too though, and yours, and everyone else. So I feel like a hypocrite if I say that I should have low taxes but we should increase your tax rate because you have more.

 

[LegendKiller]

There is very little life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness left in America today.

It's all under Government.

-John

Really? I fail to see how the government has constrained that too much. Most people I know feel pretty free, have quite a bit of liberty, and are overall, considering the circumstances, are happy.

I think you're a spoiled American who has no idea what its like to lose their life randomly, have little freedom, and be perpetually unhappy because they live in a shitty country.

 

[Zorkorist]

Hell, count me as a spoiled Roman.

Then read the Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire.

There have been many tries at civilization, and America's try is just the current one.

-John

 

[SolidSnake42]

The idea of cutting taxes in general while in the middle of a war we've been in for so long with a deficit this bad is just plain fucking stupid.

 

[LegendKiller]

Yes... now you are beginning to see it.

People are failures when they try and Govern each other. Government is a failure, when it stops people from pursuing life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

-John

By your definition all government is failure since any amount of government, in your mind, restricts those 3.

However, no government at all doesn't restrict those 3, it utterly prevents them in a cluster of people.

Thus, you choose the government in which you have a say.

 

[LegendKiller]

Well I want everyone to have more wealth, yes, rich, middle, poor, everyone. In fact, I want everyone to be "rich".

I want the government to stop taking so much of my taxes too though, and yours, and everyone else. So I feel like a hypocrite if I say that I should have low taxes but we should increase your tax rate because you have more.

I want everybody to have more wealth also. However, I realize that a society isn't free and those that benefit the most from the society are those who are the most wealthy, thus I don't feel like a hypocrite by taxing them higher. In fact, I realize my position in the pillar of society and know that I will pay higher taxes than somebody below me.

 

[Zorkorist]

The idea of cutting taxes in general while in the middle of a war we've been in for so long with a deficit this bad is just plain fucking stupid.

Less Government is never stupid.

Have you ever felt under-Governed?

-John

 

[LegendKiller]

Less Government is never stupid.

Have you ever felt under-Governed?

-John

Less government is often stupid. Nothing is ever "always" or "never" (even this statement). To exclude or include infinitely includes or excludes infinity.

Yes, often. I have also felt over-governed. I neither wish for more or less government, overall, but about the same government only smarter.

 

[SolidSnake42]

Less Government is never stupid.

Have you ever felt under-Governed?

-John

If you constantly spend billions of dollars on something over seas and doesn't help what we have here, and at the same time lessen the taxes that actually go to the government (less money that goes in), the higher spending and the lower taxes = extraordinary deficit increase, but nope, I guess people my age are going to have to suffer for stupid fuckers in the government, outside of being left and right. I still love what someone said to me once "Come to Canada, we'll make your Democrats seem like Neo-cons."

 

[Zorkorist]

By your definition all government is failure since any amount of government, in your mind, restricts those 3.

However, no government at all doesn't restrict those 3, it utterly prevents them in a cluster of people.

Thus, you choose the government in which you have a say.

No, I don't believe no Government is right, but todays Government has a long way to go to approach NO Government.

Tell me when we get close.

-John

 

[LegendKiller]

No, I don't believe no Government is right, but todays Government has a long way to go to approach NO Government.

Tell me when we get close.

-John

Hopefully we'll never get close. Personally, I don't really want to go back in time.

People glorify even 30 years ago, yet ignore the progress this country has made in quality of life since 1980, some of it because of the government.

 

[Zorkorist]

Less government is often stupid. Nothing is ever "always" or "never" (even this statement). To exclude or include infinitely includes or excludes infinity.

Yes, often. I have also felt over-governed. I neither wish for more or less government, overall, but about the same government only smarter.

We disagree here, obviously, but I am glad you admit to never feeling under-Governed.

-John

 

[LegendKiller]

We disagree here, obviously, but I am glad you admit to never feeling under-Governed.

-John

The first sentence of the 2nd paragraph was answering your question, I do feel under-governed at times.

 

[Zorkorist]

Hopefully we'll never get close. Personally, I don't really want to go back in time.

People glorify even 30 years ago, yet ignore the progress this country has made in quality of life since 1980, some of it because of the government.

Yes it is... I agree 100%

But we also have to look at today, when our debt is overwhelming and we are cavity searched when getting on a plane.

-John

 

[LegendKiller]

We disagree here, obviously, but I am glad you admit to never feeling under-Governed.

-John

So you're saying that when it comes to governance you can, 100% of the time, speak in absolutes?