We Teach the Children: School district watching students with webcams?

[yh125d]

It's not a complete lack of trust between citizens and it's government, its our laws. It's in the same privacy vein as why a hotel/motel cannot install cameras in its hotel rooms, or why there cannot be cameras in bathrooms. In the US, we have a reasonable expectation of privacy. Now, the government has every right to circumvent these laws if, beyond a reasonable doubt, there is suspected illegal activity. At that point, a warrant will be issued and the police can wire tap, monitor, and do just about anything else they want in that vein. Remember, innocent until proven guilty. Every citizen has these rights .. until the scale tips towards illegality.. which in itself is kinda scary, honestly. That's why people in general are weary about things like the Patriot Act, that give the government even more power in these matters.

Let's not forget that we're talking about minors here, too. That changes everything. If these were university level adults, they would still be in a world of hurt. But because it involves minors, its twice as bad. They have violated the rights of both the children and the parents.

These kind of actions go against our very core values as citizens of the US.

/agree

But also don't forget that schools are not the government. They are not the police. They are funded by the government. They don't have the same ability to, at times, revoke our privacy rights (a la patriot act).

This is more akin to your employer providing you with a laptop and checking in on you at home than a law enforcement agency spying on you

 

[Zenmervolt]

In most cases such as computrace, the 'tracer' can live in the BIOS and report the IP and UUID of the machine to computrace's servers without the HDD in the machine. This assumes that the tracer is actually there and built in by the provider. The HDD portion can be blown away which eliminates the remote connection side of it.

Basically the BIOS portion is pretty limited (mostly pinging back the location and the ability to blow away the HDD on command). The software on the machine provides things like asset information. Format the HDD and the tracer still runs and your HDD can be randomly wiped from remote but it can't access most hardware anymore.

This makes much more sense to me, thanks for the explanation. Part of me wonders if the BIOS portion would survive a BIOS flash, but that's definitely beyond the realm of the typical user.

ZV

 

[spidey07]

/agree

But also don't forget that schools are not the government. They are not the police. They are funded by the government. They don't have the same ability to, at times, revoke our privacy rights (a la patriot act).

This is more akin to your employer providing you with a laptop and checking in on you at home than a law enforcement agency spying on you

Actually schools are the government in a way. All teachers, administrative staff, janitors, etc are county and state employees.

Saying this is like voluntary employment is ridiculous. One is not compelled by law to work for that employer where as children, property of their parents, are.

 

[yh125d]

Actually schools are the government in a way. All teachers, administrative staff, janitors, etc are county and state employees.

Saying this is like voluntary employment is ridiculous. One is not compelled by law to work for that employer where as children, property of their parents, are.

They work for the government, they are not part of the government any more than any other citizen

They are paid by the government but they are not government employees in the same sense that FBI agents snooping in on you are government employees. There's a distinction there. My postmaster is a government employee, but is not in the same way law enforcement is


If all you took from it was that you thought I was equating school to voluntary employment my post went entirely over your head :|

 

[Kev]

wow

 

[spidey07]

Why the hell are no criminal charges being filed!?

Schools probably erased and covered up everything by now.

 

[Brainonska511]

Actually schools are the government in a way. All teachers, administrative staff, janitors, etc are county and state employees.

Saying this is like voluntary employment is ridiculous. One is not compelled by law to work for that employer where as children, property of their parents, are.

Children aren't property of their parents.

 

[Eli]

Children aren't property of their parents.

Property probably isn't the right word, but yeah.

 

[yh125d]

Parents can be viewed as sort of having power of attorney over their minor child

 

[Robsasman]

It must be. This complete lack of trust between the government and citizens seems very strange to me. I grew up in a place where we deal with the government on a daily basis, and there's a certain level of trust that comes with that. Where I live, the government owns and controls our water supply, electricity, much of the telephone network, all hospitals, all recycling and waste centers, all roads and highways, all schools and universities (private schools are extremely rare), all jails and prisons, and in some parts of the country they control all minerals, oil, natural gas, and trees.

Not much noise is made about constitutional violations because most of us don't even know what the constitution says. Canada didn't have a real constitution until 1982, and our rights are never talked about in school or on television.


Doing this might count as vandalizing government property if you don't have written permission to format it. Remember that this is not your computer. It's a school computer that you are borrowing.

Wtf are you talking about, even in Canada this would be totally illegal.

 

[FoBoT]

update, judge has ordered capability disabled

http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-v...udge-orders-school-to-stop-spying-on-students

A Pennsylvania school district has been ordered to disable equipment allowing officials to watch students using cameras on their laptops.

The order, issued Wednesday by a federal judge, will prevent school administrators from turning on cameras installed on students' school-issued laptops remotely.

 

[ModerateRepZero]

not to mention that the FBI has launched a probe:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=17751

 

[Eli]

not to mention that the FBI has launched a probe:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=17751

Good. They need to have the book thrown at them.

 

[spidey07]

Update. Senate hearings.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gdwlE3DpcMD9gNAnFMrQ7iNHCS6AD9EOAKJO1

PHILADELPHIA — An electronic privacy expert is urging Congress to update wiretap laws to include secret video surveillance as a Senate subcommittee ponders the issue in Philadelphia.

Monday's field hearing is being led by U.S. Sen. Arlen Specter, D-Pa. It comes amid a lawsuit that accuses a Pennsylvania school district of spying on students through webcams on school-issued laptops. Lower Merion school officials say they were only trying to locate missing computers.

Kevin Bankston of the Electronic Frontier Foundation is scheduled to testify. Bankston says wiretap laws should include videotaped surveillance the same way they protect secret audio recordings.

No one involved in the Lower Merion lawsuit is expected to testify.

 

[Bryophyte]

consent: voluntarily taking the laptop home when you know it has a webcam and a microphone and has monitoring software installed on it.

Next you'll be like "Holy shit there are cameras at work? This violates me in every way! I never agreed to this, except for when I signed that document and voluntarily entered the building!"

You can't give away your basic, constitutional rights like that. Someone is not immune from prosecution if they have 'permission' from you, if they break the law. There are many, many cases where contracts are thrown out in court because the people who wrote up the contract included language that took away rights of the signers. In this case, we have issues with illegal search of one's home (no court order, not law enforcement), reasonable potential for generation of child pornography, and I'm sure a number of others. I find it difficult to believe that even in Canada, it would be legal for a school to turn on a webcam and record minor children in their homes without their knowledge.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Update on the story.

The system that Lower Merion school officials used to track lost and stolen laptops wound up secretly capturing thousands of images, including photographs of students in their homes, Web sites they visited, and excerpts of their online chats, says a new motion filed in a suit against the district.

 

[spidey07]

Update on the story.

Umm, yeah. Big lawsuit and big payday there. I'd really like to see the school get nailed for child porn or something VERY serious so the fear of god would be stricken into any school that would try this again.

The material disclosed by the district contains hundreds of photos of Robbins and his family members - "including pictures of Blake partially undressed and of Blake sleeping," the motion states.

 

[PokerGuy]

I foresee a big payday out of this for the families/parents, but it doesn't look like the school officials will personally pay a price. The people living in that district are going to be passing some levy to pay for this stuff. Those administrators involved should be personally charged with crimes and tossed in jail.

 

[waggy]

Update on the story.

holly shit. that school is fucked. Also criminal charges need to filled.

this was not as the school claimed. this is criminal

"Back at district offices, the Robbins motion says, employees with access to the images marveled at the tracking software. It was like a window into "a little LMSD soap opera," a staffer is quoted as saying in an e-mail to Carol Cafiero, the administrator running the program.

"I know, I love it," she is quoted as having replied."


WTF! this school is so nailed.

 

[SaDiZTiKStyLeZ]

I wonder if this is the same software issued on the macs I've been installing in schools. Although AFAIK, the ones I'm out installing aren't made available for the kids to take home.

 

[rh71]

umm tape up the webcam eye as soon as you get any company/school-distributed laptop... ain't rocket scientology.

 

[waggy]

umm tape up the webcam eye as soon as you get any company/school-distributed laptop... ain't rocket scientology.

and that has what to do with it? that makes it ok?

 

[rh71]

and that has what to do with it? that makes it ok?

no, and i was about to edit with that.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

*** UPDATE ***

Link

Feds: No charges in Philadelphia school laptop-spying case

PHILADELPHIA (AP) — Federal prosecutors will not file charges against a school district or its employees over the use of software to remotely monitor students.

U.S. Attorney Zane David Memeger says investigators have found no evidence of criminal intent by Lower Merion School District employees who activated tracking software that took thousands of webcam and screenshot images on school-provided laptops.

A student and his family sued the district in February, claiming officials invaded his privacy by activating the software. That case continues.

The district has acknowledged capturing 56,000 screen shots and webcam images so it could locate missing laptops.

Memeger says he decided to make Tuesday's announcement to close the matter before the start of the school year.

This is absolute bullshit. That is all.

 

[Brainonska511]

*** UPDATE ***

Link



This is absolute bullshit. That is all.

There is still the civil suit. They may not have found enough evidence to get beyond a reasonable doubt criminal intent.