We surrender, we surrender

[imported_Shivetya]

Scrambling to send President Bush an emergency war spending bill he will sign, Democratic leaders have decided to drop their insistence on a timeline for withdrawing U.S. forces from Iraq.

when push comes to shove, giving up is the order of the day for Democrats.

Democratic lawmakers are under pressure to send the president an emergency spending bill before the Memorial Day break or risk being blamed for withholding critical funding for U.S. troops.

Read, they played the game wrong and lost. Instead of separating the two issues they let their fringe direct their efforts, efforts that went no where. So now, Bush gets what he wants, the Democrats have no more leverage, and we are back to square one. Well, this new Democrat led Congress is a do nothing Congress. They haven't even gotten their promised 100 hour or 100 day, whatever it was, agenda passed. The press gives them a pass for that.

Gotta love it. Politicians first, Democrats second. Meaning, they sever their supporters after protecting their political asses.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

"they played the game wrong and lost."

Instead of separating the two issues they let their fringe direct their efforts, efforts that went no where.

So now, Bush gets what he wants, the Democrats have no more leverage, and we are back to square one.

Well, this new Democrat led Congress is a do nothing Congress.

They haven't even gotten their promised 100 hour or 100 day, whatever it was, agenda passed. The press gives them a pass for that.

Gotta love it. Politicians first, Democrats second. Meaning, they server their supporters after protecting their political asses.

One the saddest, sickest posts in P&N yet.

How much are you getting paid to trash the U.S.?

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Shivetya

"they played the game wrong and lost."

Instead of separating the two issues they let their fringe direct their efforts, efforts that went no where.

So now, Bush gets what he wants, the Democrats have no more leverage, and we are back to square one.

Well, this new Democrat led Congress is a do nothing Congress.

They haven't even gotten their promised 100 hour or 100 day, whatever it was, agenda passed. The press gives them a pass for that.

Gotta love it. Politicians first, Democrats second. Meaning, they server their supporters after protecting their political asses.

One the saddest, sickest posts in P&N yet.

How much are you getting paid to trash the U.S.?

still can't think for yourself? What? did you start typing before your master woke up?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Shivetya

"they played the game wrong and lost."

Instead of separating the two issues they let their fringe direct their efforts, efforts that went no where.

So now, Bush gets what he wants, the Democrats have no more leverage, and we are back to square one.

Well, this new Democrat led Congress is a do nothing Congress.

They haven't even gotten their promised 100 hour or 100 day, whatever it was, agenda passed. The press gives them a pass for that.

Gotta love it. Politicians first, Democrats second. Meaning, they server their supporters after protecting their political asses.

One the saddest, sickest posts in P&N yet.

How much are you getting paid to trash the U.S.?

Dave

Please provide some original though into what you post.

Canned replys are becoming obvious.

What shivetya posted in his comments seems to be correct.

The Dems wanted to play tough guy with Bush. They went head to toe and they blinked.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Shivetya

"they played the game wrong and lost."

Instead of separating the two issues they let their fringe direct their efforts, efforts that went no where.

So now, Bush gets what he wants, the Democrats have no more leverage, and we are back to square one.

Well, this new Democrat led Congress is a do nothing Congress.

They haven't even gotten their promised 100 hour or 100 day, whatever it was, agenda passed. The press gives them a pass for that.

Gotta love it. Politicians first, Democrats second. Meaning, they server their supporters after protecting their political asses.

One the saddest, sickest posts in P&N yet.

How much are you getting paid to trash the U.S.?

The Dems painted themselves into the corner with this. What we have is the only possible outcome, and that is Bush won. Some will say they gave it a shot. True, but what they have shown is they have no real influence whatsover. The Reps have been nervous about Iraq for some time and the Dems should have worked with the many who were looking for some way to save face. Instead they decided it was a good time to waste their political capital. Rove et al were thrilled by the whole thing from the very first, and have been waiting to light the candles on the party cake. Today is the day.

The Dems are just like the Reps in that Party (with a capital letter) is the thing. No, the only way Congress can compete with the President is if the INSTITUTION of the Legislative Branch does so. Instead, they tried this approach they must have known would fail. Pushing something that won't work may make you look good, but not if you know anything at all about DC.

 

[Lemon law]

But it still is not what GWB wants---it only give GWB funding until September. They also plan to pair the bill with a minimum wage increase if what I hear is correct. And by September we will know if the mini surge has worked or is something to be tossed into the scrap bin of GWB brainfarts. And if not, its GWB's
last hurrah regardless if our commander and thief knows it or not.

Its a little premature for Shivetya to crow--this is not just a case of counting chickens before they hatch, this is a case of counting chickens before the egg is even laid.

Unlike GWB, the democratic congress is trying to be responsible to our troops. And will not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Shivetya might be advised to read the final bill before concluding it will not put some real restraints on the future conduct of the occupation. And in the end, GWB may well decide to veto the bill and endanger our troops.

Unless I radically miss my guess, GWB&co. is not going to be in very good shape come September when he must again come to congress and request funding based on prior promises.

 

[Jhhnn]

Four months' funding through sept of 2007 only, not for next year, as well, which is what Bush wants. Dems' original plan didn't have any scheduled withdrawals in that timeframe, anyway. What did he actually get that Dems haven't offered all along?

Tell me again- how has Bush "won"? Do his fanbois think that the "surge" will provide some miraculous results between now and then, that sentiment in favor of the occupation will somehow increase in the meanwhile?

Hardly. Holding the troops hostage in Iraq will come back to haunt the Repubs more each day. They can seal their own doom for Nov 2008 by continuing their recalcitrance...

Realistically, their overall chances are slim to none, anyway, so they apparently plan to go out in a blaze of glory...

The false cries of victory and whistling in the dark are amusing, however, so keep it up... reality will rear its ugly head RSN, when the money runs out, again... and the situation remains the same as it ever was...

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Its a little premature for Shivetya to crow--

this is not just a case of counting chickens before they hatch, this is a case of counting chickens before the egg is even laid.

:thumbsup:

 

[zephyrprime]

I don't know why people are surprised. A direct victory for the dems here was never in the cards. However, they didn't play their cards well. They should have sent a bill to Bush that he would have vetoed so everyone can be on record with their support or opposition to the bill. That would provide fodder for the next election.

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: zephyrprime
I don't know why people are surprised. A direct victory for the dems here was never in the cards. However, they didn't play their cards well. They should have sent a bill to Bush that he would have vetoed so everyone can be on record with their support or opposition to the bill. That would provide fodder for the next election.

Bingo.

 

[techs]

From a political point of view, if the Iraq war is still going strong at the time of the '08 elections we could possibly see a Demcratic sweep equal to the one they had in 1932 when the Dems took the Presidency and a greater than two thirds margin in Congress.
Since the Republicans know this look for the REPUBLICANS to try to end the war before that. It will be the greatest mass defection away from a President of their party in history.

 

[Ferocious]

Yeah.

The Dems can't override a Bush veto.

Seems like the Reps here forgot basic math. (yet more children left behind....)

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Shivetya

"they played the game wrong and lost."

Instead of separating the two issues they let their fringe direct their efforts, efforts that went no where.

So now, Bush gets what he wants, the Democrats have no more leverage, and we are back to square one.

Well, this new Democrat led Congress is a do nothing Congress.

They haven't even gotten their promised 100 hour or 100 day, whatever it was, agenda passed. The press gives them a pass for that.

Gotta love it. Politicians first, Democrats second. Meaning, they server their supporters after protecting their political asses.

One the saddest, sickest posts in P&N yet.

How much are you getting paid to trash the U.S.?

Jesus...you really are just a shell script arent you.

I'm responding to a shell script. I feel stupid.

 

[BoomerD]

Sounds to me, like the Dems KNEW Bush would veto their bill, so, rather than have the troops lose funding, they sent a bill that will keep them going for a while, and give them time to craft a different bill that might accomplish their goals. Politics has to have a lot of diplomacy, (except when you have ALL the power, like the repigs did for ~ 6 years) in order to keep the country operating. NO ONE wants to see the troops run out of food, fuel, or ammunition, we just want them home...
Support the Troops, BRING THEM HOME!

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

The Democrats are being timid . . . I mean cautious.

Although there's certainly a critical mass of the PUBLIC that's against the Bush War Without End, dyed-in-the-wool Republicans in Congress are still sticking with their dry drunk GM/coach/OC/QB.

Bush/GOP will spend the next 4 months trying to explain why $300m per day and rising American casualties are signs that the Surge is working. The Democrats (if they were smart) would continue to hold ongoing hearings and debate bills calling for explicit benchmarks (but flexible timelines for redeployment). Moderate (aka non-delusional) Republicans will move away from this disastrous foreign policy.

It's a shame that US kids will go without health insurance and hundreds of men and women in the US military will die . . . but that's a price the Democrats are willing to pay to improve their odds of being marginally less detestable/responsible than Republicans. Having said that . . . it could be worse. If Republicans were running Congress, we wouldn't even be having a debate . . .

 

[Arcex]

If Congress dropped the part about a timetable I'd say it's because they care more about the troops than Bush does. If Bush has already said he'd veto any funding bill he doesn't agree with then Congress doesn't want our troops to run out of cash, Bush may be willing to play games with our troops, sounds to me like Congress was only willing to carry it so far before being forced to give them the money Bush didn't want to give them unless it was on his own terms.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Shivetya

"they played the game wrong and lost."

Instead of separating the two issues they let their fringe direct their efforts, efforts that went no where.

So now, Bush gets what he wants, the Democrats have no more leverage, and we are back to square one.

Well, this new Democrat led Congress is a do nothing Congress.

They haven't even gotten their promised 100 hour or 100 day, whatever it was, agenda passed. The press gives them a pass for that.

Gotta love it. Politicians first, Democrats second. Meaning, they server their supporters after protecting their political asses.

One the saddest, sickest posts in P&N yet.

How much are you getting paid to trash the U.S.?

Jesus...you really are just a shell script arent you.

I'm responding to a shell script. I feel stupid.

Originally posted by: Ferocious
Yeah.

The Dems can't override a Bush veto.

Seems like the Reps here forgot basic math. (yet more children left behind....)

Yep, the fact that the Dems can't do anything by the sheer fact of the numbers makes them "Caving" and me a "shell script".

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Scrambling to send President Bush an emergency war spending bill he will sign, Democratic leaders have decided to drop their insistence on a timeline for withdrawing U.S. forces from Iraq.

when push comes to shove, giving up is the order of the day for Democrats.

Democratic lawmakers are under pressure to send the president an emergency spending bill before the Memorial Day break or risk being blamed for withholding critical funding for U.S. troops.

Read, they played the game wrong and lost. Instead of separating the two issues they let their fringe direct their efforts, efforts that went no where. So now, Bush gets what he wants, the Democrats have no more leverage, and we are back to square one. Well, this new Democrat led Congress is a do nothing Congress. They haven't even gotten their promised 100 hour or 100 day, whatever it was, agenda passed. The press gives them a pass for that.

Gotta love it. Politicians first, Democrats second. Meaning, they sever their supporters after protecting their political asses.

Gotta love asshats that complain whether they do or don't. Please change your avitar to the CLOWN. Why do you hate American and our soldiers so much... Why is it that every time a Zendari clone account gets banned, another pops up to take its place? Grow up and ship out loser.

 

[Spook]

Hmm... attach troop funding to other smaller things that the dem's want passed, and do it every 4 months. Not too bad of an idea. They know they will have to fund the troops sooner or later, and now they can get some legislation THEY want through too. Lord knows these little tidbits of legislation would never go through without something the president REALLY needs. This time its the minimum wage... what's next, amnesty? (maybe too big)

 

[shadow9d9]

Congress is all about lifetime politicians too scared to do their job because they want re-election.

 

[Dari]

I'm sure Bush will veto this bill as well because the timeframe is too short to run the wars.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: Arcex
If Congress dropped the part about a timetable I'd say it's because they care more about the troops than Bush does. If Bush has already said he'd veto any funding bill he doesn't agree with then Congress doesn't want our troops to run out of cash, Bush may be willing to play games with our troops, sounds to me like Congress was only willing to carry it so far before being forced to give them the money Bush didn't want to give them unless it was on his own terms.

Reasonable analysis but I would DEMAND that Congress (leadership) make it explicitly clear DIRECTLY to Petraeus and Gates that future funding will be dependent on palpable progress using guidelines the Bush administration has proposed. Petraeus is likely to say that sustainable stability in Iraq will require the presence of 6-figures of US troops and $8-10B a month for several years. Leave it up to him to decide if he's willing to plan for several years of 'more of the same' authorized by Shrub or an unambiguous message from Congress that funding will not be forthcoming for an open-ended engagement. It's a tough position for Petraeus but that's life.

Congress SHOULD send the message that Gates/Petraeus better make plans to redeploy and leave it to Bush to say they should plan as if he's going to be President forever.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Scrambling to send President Bush an emergency war spending bill he will sign, Democratic leaders have decided to drop their insistence on a timeline for withdrawing U.S. forces from Iraq.

when push comes to shove, giving up is the order of the day for Democrats.

Democratic lawmakers are under pressure to send the president an emergency spending bill before the Memorial Day break or risk being blamed for withholding critical funding for U.S. troops.

Read, they played the game wrong and lost. Instead of separating the two issues they let their fringe direct their efforts, efforts that went no where. So now, Bush gets what he wants, the Democrats have no more leverage, and we are back to square one. Well, this new Democrat led Congress is a do nothing Congress. They haven't even gotten their promised 100 hour or 100 day, whatever it was, agenda passed. The press gives them a pass for that.

Gotta love it. Politicians first, Democrats second. Meaning, they sever their supporters after protecting their political asses.

Fringe? You realize that the vast majority of Americans (71% as shown here)supported the Democratic position of a timetable/benchmarks right? That doesn't sound like a fringe to me.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Scrambling to send President Bush an emergency war spending bill he will sign, Democratic leaders have decided to drop their insistence on a timeline for withdrawing U.S. forces from Iraq.

when push comes to shove, giving up is the order of the day for Democrats.

Democratic lawmakers are under pressure to send the president an emergency spending bill before the Memorial Day break or risk being blamed for withholding critical funding for U.S. troops.

Read, they played the game wrong and lost. Instead of separating the two issues they let their fringe direct their efforts, efforts that went no where. So now, Bush gets what he wants, the Democrats have no more leverage, and we are back to square one. Well, this new Democrat led Congress is a do nothing Congress. They haven't even gotten their promised 100 hour or 100 day, whatever it was, agenda passed. The press gives them a pass for that.

Gotta love it. Politicians first, Democrats second. Meaning, they sever their supporters after protecting their political asses.

Played the game and lost? Hardly. The game is not over yet. They made everyones stands known, they are for ending this war, the GOP is against. Continuing Iraq war is the guarantee of a Democrat sweep in 2008. This time next year, the Republicans will be begging for a timeline for withdrawal. Bush threw them under the bus last year, next year he'll throw them under the train. So for GOP, it's another "Mission Accomplished" moment. Not to be confused with a victory.

 

[fskimospy]

Like I said from the beginning, I told you the Democrats would eventually give Bush what he wanted this time. What I also said though was that they were going to use this as a club to beat him over the head, and next time funding comes up in a few months... they will hit him even harder. Time is on the Democrats' side... because we all know Iraq stands very little chance of actually improving. (civilian deaths have actually increased since the surge started... oh unless you count like Bush does and ignore car bomb deaths)