we should stop infantalising people of color

[mect]

It is easier to face the demons of others than a demon of your own. The Holocaust wasn't our demon. It doesn't really cost anyone in the US political capitol to explore the depravity of the Nazis. If we want to do the same for the confederacy (or any of the other dark corners of our history), we have to acknowledge that we are not superior, that such atrocities can happen here as well. There is a huge chunk of the US population that believes the US is god's anointed nation. Anything that distracts from that narrative must be sanitized.

 

[woolfe9998]

There was a pretty violent scene in American History X that depicts racial violence. That is probably the one that sticks with me the most.

Yes, that was a chilling scene. Without it, the anti-hate message of the movie would have been far less effective.

 

[Homerboy]

There was a pretty violent scene in American History X that depicts racial violence. That is probably the one that sticks with me the most.

watched it once. will never do that again

 

[pmv]

I don't recall there being anything terribly graphic in Schindler's List. It didn't, as far as I can recall, show in horrific detail exactly what happened inside the gas chambers, for example. I think people would have rightly objected had it done so.

I might be misremembering as to just how graphic things were in that movie, it was a long time ago I saw it.

In any case, isn't this kind-of the same issue that comes up with respect to showing graphic images of the victims of war or natural disasters in other countries?

These are people with families, after all - is it not partly just a matter of 'respect' rather than anything to do with 'infantisation'?

It feels related to the argument about double-standards, that arises, for example, when there's a conflict going on, that sometimes the idea comes up that it's not acceptable to show mangled or mutilated bodies of dead American soldiers, but it's fine to show similarly horrible images of the civilians or soldiers of other countries?

 

[fskimospy]

I don't recall there being anything terribly graphic in Schindler's List. It didn't, as far as I can recall, show in horrific detail exactly what happened inside the gas chambers, for example. I think people would have rightly objected had it done so.

I might be misremembering as to just how graphic things were in that movie, it was a long time ago I saw it.

In any case, isn't this kind-of the same issue that comes up with respect to showing graphic images of the victims of war or natural disasters in other countries?

These are people with families, after all - is it not partly just a matter of 'respect' rather than anything to do with 'infantisation'?

It feels related to the argument about double-standards, that arises, for example, when there's a conflict going on, that sometimes the idea comes up that it's not acceptable to show mangled or mutilated bodies of dead American soldiers, but it's fine to show similarly horrible images of the civilians or soldiers of other countries?

They don't show anyone being gassed, no, but they do show plenty of people being shot and piles of burning corpses.

As far as the news not showing dead American soldiers I think that's broadly true but American movies show wounded/dead American soldiers all the time.

 

[woolfe9998]

They don't show anyone being gassed, no, but they do show plenty of people being shot and piles of burning corpses.

As far as the news not showing dead American soldiers I think that's broadly true but American movies show wounded/dead American soldiers all the time.

There's a gas chamber scene at Auschwitz in the movie, near the end where Schindler's Jews (the women) were sent to Auschwitz due to a mixup, but it turns out they are given a real shower, so it's just trying to make us think it's a gas chamber. While it is true that Jews selected for work were given real showers, the incident is pure fiction is relation to Schindler's Jews. Otherwise, the film is quite historically accurate.

 

[purbeast0]

watched it once. will never do that again

The movie as a whole is a fantastic movie.

 

[Aikouka]

There was a pretty violent scene in American History X that depicts racial violence. That is probably the one that sticks with me the most.

Another good example was the opening of HBO's The Watchmen, which depicted the Tulsa massacre.

 

[Muse]

There was a pretty violent scene in American History X that depicts racial violence. That is probably the one that sticks with me the most.

Shocking movie and I know the scene you mean.

Watched that these days:

07/12/2012
01/31/2006

My notes posted to the ATOT movies thread after watching the 2nd time:
- -
Deals with the subject very effectively. Impressive how they really got into scenes to which most people have very little access. Not romantic, not funny.

The focal subject: racism among the young.

The setting: Venice Beach, Los Angeles.

Sensitive, many excellent scenes, at times very shocking and brutal.

I bought this DVD in 2006, rewatched it last night. Wanted to see something that would keep me awake a couple of hours, knowing I'd conk out with most stuff. It worked!

 

[Homerboy]

The movie as a whole is a fantastic movie.

Oh yeah - loved it. Saw it in the theater. But that scene... I'll skip a rewatch

 

[woolfe9998]

Shocking movie and I know the scene you mean.

Watched that these days:

07/12/2012
01/31/2006

My notes posted to the ATOT movies thread after watching the 2nd time:
- -
Deals with the subject very effectively. Impressive how they really got into scenes to which most people have very little access. Not romantic, not funny.

The focal subject: racism among the young.

The setting: Venice Beach, Los Angeles.

Sensitive, many excellent scenes, at times very shocking and brutal.

I bought this DVD in 2006, rewatched it last night. Wanted to see something that would keep me awake a couple of hours, knowing I'd conk out with most stuff. It worked!

You make notes of every movie viewing? Impressive. I've probably seen somewhere around 3K-4K movies in my life, so if I had done that, the notes would be quite voluminous. But alas I'm not that organized.

What I liked most in that film was the performance of Edward Norton.

 

[Muse]

You make notes of every movie viewing? Impressive. I've probably seen somewhere around 3K-4K movies in my life, so if I had done that, the notes would be quite voluminous. But alas I'm not that organized.

What I liked most in that film was the performance of Edward Norton.

I at least record that I saw the movie, usually some more. I do database programming, for myself these days.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Oh yeah - loved it. Saw it in the theater. But that scene... I'll skip a rewatch

That falls into the same category as Green Mile, Pay it forward, and Old Yeller for me. One and done. I have experienced quite enough trauma in my life; movies that hit me with it, are not something I revisit.

No real opinion on the OP. Social issues like this are too big for me. I live my life in such a way, that anyone I come into contact with, is evaluated as an individual, unique from all others. If that isn't enough to help society move forward, that's not on me.

 

[Moonbeam]

That falls into the same category as Green Mile, Pay it forward, and Old Yeller for me. One and done. I have experienced quite enough trauma in my life; movies that hit me with it, are not something I revisit.

No real opinion on the OP. Social issues like this are too big for me. I live my life in such a way, that anyone I come into contact with, is evaluated as an individual, unique from all others. If that isn't enough to help society move forward, that's not on me.

I have a lot of sympathy for your feelings here. I have a similar reaction to horror vs science fiction. I love the imagination expressed in good SciFi and am turned off my horror films or books.

I ask myself what in the hell is it that people are looking for watching horror films and I believe it is vicarious experience. They want to get close to feeling traumatized without actually experiencing it in reality. I attribute the difference between how some react and your reaction to a difference in consciousness. You don't like or want vicarious experience or I at least feel that way because the walls that keep me from feeling trauma are very thin. Life is too full of trauma already to seek more exposure to it.

The way I look at it is that what people need isn't consciousness of trauma but conscience that traumatic experience is repellent, the will not to commit it personally. I think the assumption this thread makes generally is that consciousness leads to conscience and I don't really think that is the key. The key is the preservation from childhood of empathy.

Look at the the way the two terms are defined here:

What’s the Difference Between the Conscience and the Conscious?

Conscience and conscious are commonly confused terms but their meanings are very different. Learn more about the definitions of these terms and their differences.

www.verywellmind.com

You will see that conscience is seen as an instilled sense of right and wrong that works against our basic animal-like selfish base nature. But I disagree with this. I think that particular characterization of human nature is the nature we acquire as a result of having learned to hate evil because we were called evil ourselves. I think our true nature is the sweetness we see in children that the world teaches us is dangerous, vulnerable, and weak, that we must be hard, competitive, manipulative, and vicious so survive properly. I think of China and Tibet, a China perverted by Western thinking.

So the question for me is how to preserve our true nature from the perversion of thought that we are evil, how to be real, how to feel for others with the kind of being joy appreciation that comes from living life itself. On earth as it is in heaven......

 

[cytg111]

I am not a fan of diluting reality, some times the truth is brutal. Its life. Only one way to prepare for it.

 

[m8d]

When it comes to history, I'm in favor of telling the truth. The ENTIRE truth.

This country is incapable of learning form history because we are afraid of the ENTIRE truth.

The woman who gave false testimony about Emmitt leading to his death is still walking around unprosecuted. I thought there is no statute of limitation to murder even an accessory?

Today Republicans are on a rampage to whitewash history into their favor. We have learned nothing.

Emmitt's mother having an open casket is the same reason the violence should have been shown in total. Missed opportunity

White AmeriKKKa doesn't want to know the truth. If they know the truth, everything they believe and have been taught is a lie.

 

[Captante]

White AmeriKKKa doesn't want to know the truth. If they know the truth, everything they believe and have been taught is a lie.

NOT "everything" ..... but a whole lot!

And my on-topic take is that contrary to what has been said racism is absolutely "part of the system" here in 'murica.

 

[hal2kilo]

That falls into the same category as Green Mile, Pay it forward, and Old Yeller for me. One and done. I have experienced quite enough trauma in my life; movies that hit me with it, are not something I revisit.

No real opinion on the OP. Social issues like this are too big for me. I live my life in such a way, that anyone I come into contact with, is evaluated as an individual, unique from all others. If that isn't enough to help society move forward, that's not on me.

Reservoir Dogs does it for me. Even ruined a song. Stuck in the middle with you.

 

[Muse]

Reservoir Dogs does it for me. Even ruined a song. Stuck in the middle with you.

Took me a while (more than one attempt) to get through that one. It's masterful ... and shocking.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Reservoir Dogs does it for me. Even ruined a song. Stuck in the middle with you.

Which scene? I ask because that film didn't work me over. In fact, the tipping scene accurately represents all internet discussions. The lesson it teaches is don't be Mr. Pink. Unfortunately most Republicans are Mr. Pink.

 

[iRONic]

The one where Michael Madsen cuts off the cops ear.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Which scene? I ask because that film didn't work me over. In fact, the tipping scene accurately represents all internet discussions. The lesson it teaches is don't be Mr. Pink. Unfortunately most Republicans are Mr. Pink.

Anyone looking to have their patience tested should watch that movie.