We need more people so we can have this?

[Moonbeam]

In a vacuum I think this is a practical, reasonable idea. In our world as it is, I see it being applied in a problematic fashion.

No kidding!

 

[Moonbeam]

Care to explain why? I'm not suggesting eugenics. I'm just suggesting that we make pregnancy opt-in instead of opt-out.
Just think of a world where pregnancy was a 100% voluntary choice, preferably by both partners (while it has not been researched yet, the concept behind RISUG should work on women too.) The population would stabilize in a generation and we would solve many of the worst problems humanity faces.

Because you would want the people who would opt not to bring children into the world to be the ones who do and the ones that want them to not have them for one thing and a second reason would be that you would limit the number of people too poor to have children to not have them out of an awareness of now sad their lives would be and permit people who could care less from having most of them. There is no answer to the problems of the world that does not involve being awake as an individual. Your solution would awaken nobody. What the world needs isn't more rules it is more love, more empathy for each other. That can happen when the people realize that our system produces insecurity and fear and conservative me first morality.

 

[Tsinni Dave]

I think "living" in one of those towers would be pretty close to worse than death, but c'mon, think about all the money the owner of the building makes! Captalism for the win! Bootstraps, am I right?

 

[Muse]

I think "living" in one of those towers would be pretty close to worse than death, but c'mon, think about all the money the owner of the building makes! Captalism for the win! Bootstraps, am I right?

In the last few years tiny houses in the USA (at least in California) has become a thing. Could be just the beginning...

 

[MtnMan]

I'm still waiting for the republican outrage over OTC birth control pills.

https://www.npr.org/2023/07/13/1187460902/opill-fda-approve-otc-birth-control-pill

Or have I just missed it because their outrage just got drowned out by all their other outrage where people can choose?

 

[Tsinni Dave]

In the last few years tiny houses in the USA (at least in California) has become a thing. Could be just the beginning...

The new tiny home thing is alright for single people mostly, but I just spent most of last week in a village here where most of the houses are WW2 and just after era homes and I am amazed how tiny they seem now. All well under 800 sqft. I'm the youngest of 12 and the house I grew up in was 24x32 foot. Hence why I am so outdoorsy, I guess. If my wife passes away before I do, I'd consider building a tiny-ish home for myself just for maintenance and upkeep reasons, not to mention the energy savings.

 

[akugami]

Here is one study on abortion that studied women for 5 years after they were denied abortions, and studied the impact the baby had on their lives. Studies like this have shown that women denied an abortion, who are not ready to have a baby experience economic hardships for years, if not for the rest of their lives.

And that's not counting the horrifying, soul killing experience of having to carry a non-viable fetus to term forced upon them by Republicans.

Denying women the right to an abortion is another form of enslavement.

 

[eelw]

Enslavement for thee, not for me

 

[ch33zw1z]

I'm still waiting for the republican outrage over OTC birth control pills.

https://www.npr.org/2023/07/13/1187460902/opill-fda-approve-otc-birth-control-pill

Or have I just missed it because their outrage just got drowned out by all their other outrage where people can choose?

Rest assured the outrage will include intimidation / terrorism targeting any chain or people that are willing to vend this otc med

 

[Muse]

Denying women the right to an abortion is another form of enslavement.

Here is one study on abortion that studied women for 5 years after they were denied abortions, and studied the impact the baby had on their lives. Studies like this have shown that women denied an abortion, who are not ready to have a baby experience economic hardships for years, if not for the rest of their lives.

And that's not counting the horrifying, soul killing experience of having to carry a non-viable fetus to term forced upon them by Republicans.

Denying women the right to an abortion is another form of enslavement.

It's a line from a song by British anarchist punk band Crass: They can call it freedom but slavery's the game.

Crass - Bloody Revolutions
You talk about your revolution, well, that's fine
But what are you going to be doing come the time?
Are you going to be the big man with the tommy-gun?
Will you talk of freedom when the blood begins to run?
Well, freedom has no value if violence is the price
Don't want your revolution, I want anarchy and peace

You talk of overthrowing power with violence as your tool
You speak of liberation and when the people rule
Well ain't it people rule right now, what difference would there be?
Just another set of bigots with their rifle-sights on me

But what about those people who don't want your new restrictions?
Those that disagree with you and have their own convictions?
You say they've got it wrong because they don't agree with you
So when the revolution comes you'll have to run them through
You say that revolution will bring freedom for us all
Well freedom just ain't freedom when your back's against the wall

You talk of overthrowing power with violence as your tool
You speak of liberation and when the people rule
Well ain't it people rule right now, what difference would there be?
Just another set of bigots with their rifle-sights on me

Will you indoctrinate the masses to serve your new regime?
And simply do away with those whose views are too extreme?
Transportation details could be left to British rail
Where Zyklon B succeeded, North Sea Gas will fail
It's just the same old story of man destroying man
We've got to look for other answers to the problems of this land

You talk of overthrowing power with violence as your tool
You speak of liberation and when the people rule
Well ain't it people rule right now, what difference would there be?
Just another set of bigots with their rifle-sights on me

Vive la revolution, people of the world unite
Stand up men of courage, it's your job to fight

It all seems very easy, this revolution game
But when you start to really play things won't be quite the same
Your intellectual theories on how it's going to be
Don't seem to take into account the true reality
Cos the truth of what you're saying, as you sit there sipping beer
Is pain and death and suffering, but of course you wouldn't care

You're far too much of a man for that, if Mao did it so can you
What's the freedom of us all against the suffering of the few?
That's the kind of self-deception that killed ten million jews
Just the same false logic that all power-mongers use
So don't think you can fool me with your political tricks
Political right, political left, you can keep your politics
Government is government and all government is force
Left or right, right or left, it takes the same old course
Oppression and restriction, regulation, rule and law
The seizure of that power is all your revolution's for
You romanticise your heroes, quote from Marx and Mao
Well their ideas of freedom are just oppression now

Nothing changed for all the death, that their ideas created
It's just the same fascistic games, but the rules aren't clearly stated
Nothing's really different cos all government's the same
They can call it freedom, but slavery is the game

Nothing changed for all the death, that their ideas created
It's just the same fascistic games, but the rules aren't clearly stated
Nothing's really different cos all government's the same
They can call it freedom, but slavery is the game
There's nothing that you offer but a dream of last years hero
The truth of revolution, brother................... is year zero

- - - -

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[fskimospy]

The new tiny home thing is alright for single people mostly, but I just spent most of last week in a village here where most of the houses are WW2 and just after era homes and I am amazed how tiny they seem now. All well under 800 sqft. I'm the youngest of 12 and the house I grew up in was 24x32 foot. Hence why I am so outdoorsy, I guess. If my wife passes away before I do, I'd consider building a tiny-ish home for myself just for maintenance and upkeep reasons, not to mention the energy savings.

This is an under-appreciated aspect of the American housing market - the average house built today is much larger than houses used to be. Some of this is of course preference but unfortunately a lot of this, once again, comes down to local housing regulations that ban small houses from being built.

 

[K1052]

This is an under-appreciated aspect of the American housing market - the average house built today is much larger than houses used to be. Some of this is of course preference but unfortunately a lot of this, once again, comes down to local housing regulations that ban small houses from being built.

Periodically my husband muses that it might be nice to own a house again until I point out that basically everything here is sub 1000 square feet, built in the 20s (often one bathroom), and effectively double the price per built square foot we paid for our condo.

 

[fskimospy]

Periodically my husband muses that it might be nice to own a house again until I point out that basically everything here is sub 1000 square feet, built in the 20s (often one bathroom), and effectively double the price per built square foot we paid for our condo.

Haha absolutely. Look at the shitboxes on Sunset Cliffs in OB - not sure if you've ever been inside one but they are awful. They are also like close to a million bucks last time I checked.

 

[Zorba]

This is an under-appreciated aspect of the American housing market - the average house built today is much larger than houses used to be. Some of this is of course preference but unfortunately a lot of this, once again, comes down to local housing regulations that ban small houses from being built.

Part of it is that Americansv have fallen in love with random shit, so we need bigger spaces to hold all of our random shit. Not to mention the transition from group entertainment to individual entertainment.

 

[K1052]

Haha absolutely. Look at the shitboxes on Sunset Cliffs in OB - not sure if you've ever been inside one but they are awful. They are also like close to a million bucks last time I checked.

Yes if you only want to spend about a million plus a little you'd have to be accepting of the probable crack den and/or hoarder vibe such a property is going to have. Anything decent is now 1.3M or often much more. This part of the world really could use a bunch of low and medium rise condo buildings.

 

[hal2kilo]

Rest assured the outrage will include intimidation / terrorism targeting any chain or people that are willing to vend this otc med

Guess why candidates with the exception of Christie won't say anything really bad about the twice impeached, twice indicted, successfully sued for sexual assault and defamation candidate they could easily clobber over the head with the above.

 

[thraashman]

The thought of abortion as population control is so horrendous it won't fit in my head.

I may not agree with most of your politics, but you're right in that OP linking overpopulation like in Hong Kong and abortion was crass at best. The choice to link the subject from the article to abortion rights was forced and callous as abortion should absolutely not be a means of population control.

 

[MtnMan]

Periodically my husband muses that it might be nice to own a house again until I point out that basically everything here is sub 1000 square feet, built in the 20s (often one bathroom), and effectively double the price per built square foot we paid for our condo.

At least you own a condo, vs. living at the whim of landlords and rising rents. We own an older single family home, no mortgage. We are retired, not wealthy but comfortable. Taxes, insurance, utilities, upkeep, (no HOA) on our home is manageable, where if we rented, with rents skyrocketing I'm sure our standard of living would suffer, just to pay the rent.

We are also fortunate to live where we do, a small city in the mountains of NC, and people are flocking here for the climate, lifestyle, etc., which has caused a housing shortage, and of course the soaring prices and rent. $3,000 rent for 1,000 sq/ft, and it's still an apartment.

 

[K1052]

At least you own a condo, vs. living at the whim of landlords and rising rents. We own an older single family home, no mortgage. We are retired, not wealthy but comfortable. Taxes, insurance, utilities, upkeep, (no HOA) on our home is manageable, where if we rented, with rents skyrocketing I'm sure our standard of living would suffer, just to pay the rent.

We are also fortunate to live where we do, a small city in the mountains of NC, and people are flocking here for the climate, lifestyle, etc., which has caused a housing shortage, and of course the soaring prices and rent. $3,000 rent for 1,000 sq/ft, and it's still an apartment.

COVID era and hangover demand has done no favors for the US housing shortage and subjected other places to huge cost of living increases which were formerly not. I made an unreasonable profit from just having the random good luck to buy a house in Austin in mid 2019 and sold in early 2022. Good for me personally but not good for the country really. We need a lot more housing.

 

[fskimospy]

COVID era and hangover demand has done no favors for the US housing shortage and subjected other places to huge cost of living increases which were formerly not. I made an unreasonable profit from just having the random good luck to buy a house in Austin in mid 2019 and sold in early 2022. Good for me personally but not good for the country really. We need a lot more housing.

Probably not true anymore but if memory serves the median homeowner in San Francisco in the 2010s made more money from owning their house than by working.

That shows just how insane our housing situation is.

 

[nakedfrog]

In the last few years tiny houses in the USA (at least in California) has become a thing. Could be just the beginning...

I expect they've probably got them out there too, but in Seattle they have "micro-studio apartments"/"apodments", 200 sq ft or so.

 

[pmv]

I was addressing Greenman, not you, guess that's what I get for not quoting.

I think the OP started the confusion, though - there's not really much of a connection between 'severe urban overcrowding' and 'abortion'. Two quite different issues, really. Even birth control generally would seem to have only an indirect connection.

I assume with Hong Kong there are some very specific local factors, to do with geography and the history of China and colonialism, that have led to this situation. You see some absurdly tiny apartments here in London as well, mind you.

Edit - an interesting thought is whether, if you had sufficiently limitless resources, you could achieve the same level of housing density, packing just as many people in, but with much more pleasant conditions. Some sort of science-fiction style eco-mega-tower.

 

[akugami]

I don't think the towering "coffin apartments" that you see in places like Hong Kong are the answer, but I do believe that 1 to 3 bedroom apartment complexes are the answer.

The important things are design and affordability. It must be designed properly. Maybe about 5 story high, at the very most. It's not just have some apartments and call it a day. Nope. Have a proper rec room for indoor activities, especially during a rainy day. An outdoor park/garden area for people to just relax in. Include a swimming pool and a gym. Make it affordable.

Too often, low income housing is just a crappy place with a bed. The goal is to build a community, not just a transient rest stop.

 

[K1052]

I don't think the towering "coffin apartments" that you see in places like Hong Kong are the answer, but I do believe that 1 to 3 bedroom apartment complexes are the answer.

The important things are design and affordability. It must be designed properly. Maybe about 5 story high, at the very most. It's not just have some apartments and call it a day. Nope. Have a proper rec room for indoor activities, especially during a rainy day. An outdoor park/garden area for people to just relax in. Include a swimming pool and a gym. Make it affordable.

Too often, low income housing is just a crappy place with a bed. The goal is to build a community, not just a transient rest stop.

I think for very large complexes a central set of amenities makes some sense but probably not for smaller buildings from a cost standpoint. Putting them in proximity to similar community amenities is a better idea.

5 stories is kind of an arbitrary figure since high rise development is not only preferable in some environments but necessary to make projects even remotely pencil where land cost is very high. 5 floors in Indianapolis? Probably Fine. 5 floors in Manhattan or many other downtown districts? Likely not fine.

 

[akugami]

@K1052

5 stories is just a random height I pulled. I'm trying to straddle the line between some huge apartment complex that seems more like a prison, and an actual community.

Housing like this needs space to be developed and developed properly. Something like this would never work in Manhattan, downtown Los Angeles, or San Francisco. However, in poorer districts of a city, the local government can and should be able to take over blocks and build actual communities. Or build out at the edge of a city, in less urbanized locations.

And yes, as you mention, in highly urbanized crowded areas, you can string together multiple smaller buildings to form a community. I don't mean to imply only large single complexes are the only way to go. The important thing is to have actual modern amenities that improve the quality of life of the residents. Make it all affordable. It's damned amazing what happens to people when they receive a nurturing environment growing up. They suddenly become actual nice people and contributing members of society.

And don't forget public transportation as part of housing infrastructure.