We don't need no stinkin' Patriot Act

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Ornery
"I did provide a useful alternative..."

...improving the effectiveness of our government in actually using the intelligence reports...

Oh yeah, there's a plan!

I can't help but laugh at how ironic that is too! Again, you better just step aside and... STFU!

Explain how the Patriot Act protects US citizens from terrorists. Explain how the freedoms of American citizens are not impacted in any way by the Patriot Act. Maybe some of us misunderstand some of the things here.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Just as I thought. Neither you, nor your leaders have anything constructive to add to our defense, but unlimited bitching and complaining. Thanks for your "help", but perhaps you should just step aside and let others get the job done, since you've got NOTHING to contribute.

 

[DanJ]

Originally posted by: Ornery

I can't help but laugh at how ironic that is too! Again, you better just step aside and... STFU!

I can't help but notice Ornery, that you have provided no points in favor of the Patriot Act...just bitching at the oppositition.

 

[Ornery]

"If you get around to fixing the different agencies..."

Too bad all government agencies can't be dealt with more strongly! Let's see, which side of the isle would fight that change? 😕

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Ornery
"Patriot does nothing to help our country..."

Yep, more of the same FUD with no useful alternatives. No, you clowns aren't too predictable.

And how about the thought of cleaning up our government? If you get around to fixing the different agencies, get them working *properly* a lot of this homeland spying will not be necessary.

Oh no, we can't have that... Ornery likes the idea of the same ineffective, inefficient, corrupt-as-can-be government prowling through all our records and maintaining a database about every person in America and their buying habits. Forget the fact that it's treating regular citizens like criminals, invasive of privacy, and doomed to be utterly ineffective in fighting terrorism, he just likes the high price tag and taxes that will come with it.
No, seriously, Patriot is worthless. The price of freedom is high. For the US, 9/11 was just another installment payment. The US has paid this type of price in the past and will pay it again. Ornery, buck up there, you little coward. Live free or Die.

edit: minor spelling typo
notfred, nice post 🙂

 

[Ornery]

Originally posted by: DanJ

Originally posted by: Ornery

I can't help but laugh at how ironic that is too! Again, you better just step aside and... STFU!

I can't help but notice Ornery, that you have provided no points in favor of the Patriot Act...just bitching at the oppositition.

I hate that we have to do things like this! 9-11 pushed terrorism to the front burner and it's going to take DRASTIC, rule bending measures to fight. Short of shutting down our borders, we don't have a whole lot of other choices, IMO.

 

[DanJ]

Originally posted by: Ornery
I hate that we have to do things like this! 9-11 pushed terrorism to the front burner and it's going to take DRASTIC, rule bending measures to fight. Short of shutting down our borders, we don't have a whole lot of other choices, IMO.

You say we have to do things like this; why? Why is violating the very constitution that this country is based on a thing we have to do? Why is treating every US citizen like they could be a potential terrorist a good thing to do? Doesn't this change the very nature of which are country is based on?

Things have to be done but you make it out like this is the only thing that could have been done. Why?

 

[BatmanNate]

Originally posted by: Ornery

Originally posted by: DanJ

Originally posted by: Ornery

I can't help but laugh at how ironic that is too! Again, you better just step aside and... STFU!

I can't help but notice Ornery, that you have provided no points in favor of the Patriot Act...just bitching at the oppositition.

I hate that we have to do things like this! 9-11 pushed terrorism to the front burner and it's going to take DRASTIC, rule bending measures to fight. Short of shutting down our borders, we don't have a whole lot of other choices, IMO.

What's America worth if we have to push so drastic of measures that the one thing that makes this country what it was and what it stood for is no longer truth? Terrorism comes in more flavors than hijackers and suicide bombers.

 

[Ornery]

"Things have to be done but you make it out like this is the only thing that could have been done. Why?"

This isn't the ONLY thing that's being done! It's just the only thing that the left is bitching about. We've got delays at airports among other places due to this issue. Talk about "bucking up"... it sucks, but we deal with it.

I suppose we could capitulate to the terrorists. Pull out all aid to Israel. Let them get overrun and wiped out. There's a plan, eh?

 

[notfred]

I still think that anyone who thinks measures short of my suggestion will repair this country is kidding themselves, unfortunately.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Destroying the liberities that make America great is not the best way to defend it.

We should consider changes to our foreign policy and our immigration laws to help protect ourselves. I hate to put it this way, but a kinder, gentler America may be what we need.

The policies put forth in the Patriot Act (what a politically driven name too :|) do more to help us if we decided to expand our territories more than defend ourselves against terror.

 

[Ornery]

Originally posted by: notfred
I still think that anyone who thinks measures short of my suggestion will repair this country is kidding themselves, unfortunately.

Thanks. You do so represent our resident Democrats here!

 

[DanJ]

Originally posted by: Ornery
"Things have to be done but you make it out like this is the only thing that could have been done. Why?"

This isn't the ONLY thing that's being done! It's just the only thing that the left is bitching about. We've got delays at airports among other places due to this issue. Talk about "bucking up"... it sucks, but we deal with it.

You're running away from the question. The Patriot Act goes way farther then inspections at airpoirts; and no its not the only thing being done, its the most far-reaching. It has the most consequences. It gives the most power. There's a reason its a primary focus.

So why is it necessary in your opinion again?

 

[Ornery]

"We should consider changes to our foreign policy..."

You mean capitulate to their terms? Uh, you really want a reply to that?

 

[DanJ]

Originally posted by: Ornery

Originally posted by: notfred
I still think that anyone who thinks measures short of my suggestion will repair this country is kidding themselves, unfortunately.

Thanks. You do so represent our resident Democrats here!

God Damn. Everything is not partisan you realize. The Patriot Act is an overstep of Government power. Reps and Dems (that aren't in office) and more importantly people that don't feel the need to group themself into a political party can realize that I hope.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Ornery
"We should consider changes to our foreign policy..."

You mean capitulate to their terms? Uh, you really want a reply to that?

No, not in any way, shape, or form. We need israel. But, we spend so much money on militaristic maneuvers and whatnot. I do not support taking money away from these things, but I would take a tax hike to provide more supplies, schools, and hospitals in foreign countries.

Of course, I think we should be fixing our own country before we seek to fix another...

 

[Ornery]

"...why is it necessary..."

It's a tool, plain and simple.

 

[DanJ]

Originally posted by: Ornery
"...why is it necessary..."

It's a tool, plain and simple.

You're possibly the worst debator I've ever seen in these forums. You quote a couple words here and there, then you refuse to actually back up any of your statement. Lots of things are tools. One tool in particular comes to my mind right now.

But why is this tool required?

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: Ornery

Originally posted by: notfred
I still think that anyone who thinks measures short of my suggestion will repair this country is kidding themselves, unfortunately.

Thanks. You do so represent our resident Democrats here!

Really, did you even bother to read what suggestion was?

 

[Ornery]

...we spend so much money on militaristic maneuvers and whatnot."

Is it not yet apparent how the money we spend on these things saves lives? By blowing the living crap out of Hiroshima we killed far fewer than were saved. Our current military is able to effect change with minimal civilian and allied losses. I'd rather see more money invested in "militaristic maneuvers and whatnot", than less.

 

[Ornery]

Really, did you even bother to read what suggestion was?

Are you trying to goad me into getting myself banned?

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Really, did you even bother to read what suggestion was?

Are you trying to goad me into getting myself banned?

No, I'm just wondering where you came up with the idea that an armed revolution is some kind of democratic party idea.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Ornery
...we spend so much money on militaristic maneuvers and whatnot."

Is it not yet apparent how the money we spend on these things saves lives? By blowing the living crap out of Hiroshima we killed far fewer than were saved. Our current military is able to effect change with minimal civilian and allied losses. I'd rather see more money invested in "militaristic maneuvers and whatnot", than less.

This proves you did not read my entire post. You stopped right there didn't you?

 

[Ornery]

"...why is this tool required?"

Good Lord! You want me to copy and paste for you, or can you read for yourself?

H.R.3162

• ENHANCED SURVEILLANCE PROCEDURES
• INTERNATIONAL MONEY LAUNDERING ABATEMENT
• International Counter Money Laundering and Related Measures
• Bank Secrecy Act Amendments and Related Improvements
• PROTECTING THE BORDER
• REMOVING OBSTACLES TO INVESTIGATING TERRORISM
• INCREASED INFORMATION SHARING FOR CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE PROTECTION
• STRENGTHENING THE CRIMINAL LAWS AGAINST TERRORISM
• IMPROVED INTELLIGENCE
• COUNTERTERRORISM FUND
• EXPANSION OF NATIONAL ELECTRONIC CRIME TASK FORCE INITIATIVE
• AUTHORITY TO INTERCEPT WIRE, ORAL, AND ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS RELATING TO TERRORISM
• AUTHORITY TO SHARE CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIVE INFORMATION...

More?


"...armed revolution is some kind of democratic party idea..."

No, your asinine input is more what I was referring to.


"...This proves you did not read my entire post. You stopped right there didn't you?"

No, you went off topic, so I didn't bother with it.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Ornery

"...This proves you did not read my entire post. You stopped right there didn't you?"

No, you went off topic, so I didn't bother with it.

Not at all, I mentioned how I did not want money to be taken away from the military. I did mention however, how I thought we could help fix parts of our foreign policy, which might help us get people to stop hating us.