We are not that far from a turnkey totalitarian state; says William Benny

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Oldgamer

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Surveillance Can be Used to Frame You, If Someone In Government “Happens to Take a Dislike to You”

Top Spying Experts Explain Why You Should Oppose Spying … Even Though You’ve Done Nothing Wrong

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Top NSA whistleblower William Binney – the former head of the National Security Agency’s global digital data gathering program – has repeatedly explained that just because you “haven’t done anything wrong” doesn’t mean you can’t be severely harmed by spying:

“The problem is, if they think they’re not doing anything that’s wrong, they don’t get to define that. The central government does.”


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TuET0kpHoyM

Binney explains that the government is storing everything, and creating a searchable database … to be used whenever it wants, for any purpose it wants (even just going after someone it doesn’t like).

And he notes that the government will go after anyone who is on its enemies list:

If you ever get on their enemies list, like Petraeus did, then you can be drawn into that surveillance.

Binney recently held his thumb and forefinger close together, and said:

We are, like, that far from a turnkey totalitarian state

Similarly, in response to the question, “why should people care about surveillance?”, the whistleblower source of the Guardian’s disclosures on phone and Internet spying – Edward Snowden – said:

Because even if you’re not doing anything wrong you’re being watched and recorded. And the storage capability of these systems increases every year consistently by orders of magnitude … to where it’s getting to the point where you don’t have to have done anything wrong. You simply have to eventually fall under suspicion from somebody – even by a wrong call. And then they can use this system to go back in time and scrutinize every decision you’ve ever made, every friend you’ve ever discussed something with. And attack you on that basis to sort to derive suspicion from an innocent life and paint anyone in the context of a wrongdoer.

[If people don't oppose the surveillance state now] it will be turnkey tyranny.

In 1975, Senator Frank Church said about the NSA:

I know the capacity that is there to make tyranny total in America, and we must see to it that this agency and all agencies that possess this technology operate within the law and under proper supervision, so that we never cross over that abyss. That is the abyss from which there is no return.

Link to the article: http://www.globalresearch.ca/survei...ment-happens-to-take-a-dislike-to-you/5338559
 

Oldgamer

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I am still amazed, that so many of our youth continue to think this is no big deal.
 

Harabec

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Your sig seems fitting.

BTW, for anyone stupid enough to think their info won't leak anywhere.
In Israel the Ministry of Interior has a databse program that contains all basic info about the citizenry, stuff you'd find on the ID's and a bit more.
Guess what? it was "leaked" and is now widely used by people for even stupid stuff like looking up info on fellow high school students.

Someone keeps info somewhere, it WILL be abused.
 
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woolfe9998

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Apr 8, 2013
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Your sig seems fitting.

BTW, for anyone stupid enough to think their info won't leak anywhere.
In Israel the Ministry of Interior has a databse program that contains all basic info about the citizenry, stuff you'd find on the ID's and a bit more.
Guess what? it was "leaked" and is now widely used by people for even stupid stuff like looking up info on fellow high school students.

Someone keeps info somewhere, it WILL be abused.

Good point. If someone can leak the fact that the info is being collected, someone else less civic minded can leak the info itself.
 

monovillage

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Jul 3, 2008
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I've been opposing this kind of thinking for most of my adult life. I am as strict in supporting the 1st Amendment or the 2nd Amendment as I am the 4th Amendment. Even though it sometimes puts me at odds with the left and the right I believe there's no excuse for the government to be abusing it's citizens and the Constitution.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

It isn't that hard to understand and follow it.
 

Oldgamer

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Sadly, 56% of Americans believe the NSA surveillance is an acceptable means of fighting terrorism.

http://www.people-press.org/files/legacy-pdf/06-10-13 PRC WP Surveillance Release.pdf

This has always scared the hell out of me. I have a very young friend, in his late 20's who thinks all this survelliance stuff is good, and thinks there should be more of it. He is highly educated and it is disturbing that he and other youngin's think all this is acceptable, and ok.
 

gevorg

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Nov 3, 2004
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Oldgamer

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A few more school shootings and home-grown terrists, and even more Americans will accept giving up all their private life away to the government. Hollywood and public education in the last couple of decades did a pretty good job at dumbing down the population.


...and they continue. Have you been reading what has been happening in Philadelphia in the news? They shut down a crap ton of schools, most in the poorer areas, and claimed it was necessary for cut backs. Turns out they used something like close to 5 million dollars and possibly more to build a huge Prison close to the areas where the schools were shut down.

I really do believe we have gone to a government where it is more profitable to incarerate all its citizens, and to use them for forced labor. Seems everyone these days gets arrested for the slightest offense and thrown in jail. On top of all that, shit, just look at the N.York law about making it a felony to "annoy" a cop. Then the sell off of loads of valuable property in Chicago and the poor neighborhoods, and the building of prisons there as well.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
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It seems increasingly obvious to me that the only way this will be resolved is by lawmakers being caught up in the dragnet. Patreus already got jammed.
Once a couple of senators are humiliated out of office because some opponent had an NSA laquey check his emails and he was cheating on his wife we may see more opposition.

Politicians are hugely corrupt and there are records and trails of their evil doings. Hopefully this kind of stuff can lead to cases that never would otherwise have existed and we can have some privacy mandated back.

Doesn't surprise me a lot of people are for this. Most people are ignorant as fuck when it comes to history and the gov has been telling them for a decade how big a problem terrorism is so they will get on board with anything.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
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Doom and gloom and gloom and doom.

Look at it this way, to act on this now would be a preventative action. Now when in America's entire history have we been good at preventative action? Never. We, as a nation, absolutely suck at preventative measures. Largely because such measures require sacrifice with no immediate gain, which is contrary to many Americans' mentality.

A lot of people say this program is "acceptable" because no real bad has come of it yet. Once it does, the backlash will put watergate to shame. I know it's a lot easier to predict some incremental totalitarian state manipulating people generation by generation until we're all fucked, but apocalyptic predictions are a dime a dozen.
 
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