WCG Christmas, errr, December Race(s) 2017

[ao_ika_red]

We may be able to go from 3rd to 2nd at Dec 2017 By-results All-projects.

Based on Free-DC stats, they have more than 200k RAC advantage more than us.

 

[Howdy]

WCG Reminder:
06 Dec 2017 – Planned Maintenance on Saturday, December 9

We are upgrading the software on multiple parts of the system on Saturday, December 9, beginning at 2:00 UTC.

If you might be wondering why you are not getting any project work.

 

[crashtech]

Hi @Howdy2u2 ! I don't know if I missed the welcome wagon, but it's nice to have you on the TeAm!

 

[TennesseeTony]

Indeed I was wondering if the server was down. Thanks Howdy, and welcome!

 

[crashtech]

Hopefully I keep my queue depths where they can weather the occasional outage, although Formula Boinc has trained me to keep them shallow between Sprints...

 

[StefanR5R]

We may be able to go from 3rd to 2nd at Dec 2017 By-results All-projects.

Based on Free-DC stats, they have more than 200k RAC advantage more than us.

I pointed out "Dec 2017 By-results All-projects" because this competition is based on result count, not points, and we are closer to Decrypthon in this race than in the others which are points based.

The day before yesterday, according to free-dc: TeAm = 519 k. Deduct 31 k which I did on this day, add ~375 k which I should be doing if I use all CPUs -> ~860 k.
Decrypthon: 905 k on the day before yesterday, 850 k average on Dec 1...Dec 7.

(I'm disregarding yesterday's free-dc stats, as they were too low for all teams. Perhaps because of WCG's maintenance earlier today.)

 

[pandemonium]

Stupid question: what determines results rate? Is that basically just luck or is there anything someone can do to improve results?

 

[StefanR5R]

1.) You can run Linux (or Linux in a virtual machine on a Windows supervisor) because the performance of the Linux binary is a lot better than the respective Windows binary of some of the WCG sub-projects.

In my limited testing on Broadwell-EP CPUs during November before the Birthday challenge, SCC, OZ, and OET got much better credit on Linux than MIP and MCM. (I did not test HSTB and FAAH 1 and 2.)

2.) You can check the credit/hour on your particular hosts for each subproject, and then choose to concentrate on running the most rewarding one if you don't have a preference based on the subrojects' scientific fields.

In my limited testing during November on Broadwell-EP/ Windows, MIP gave most credits. This may no longer be true because MIP credits/hour have been reportedly drifting downwards over time. In my Broadwell-EP/ Linux tests during November, OET > OZ > SCC > MCM > MIP.

Note that some subprojects have greater variance WRT credits/hour than others; you may need to evaluate 50 or 100 or more WUs in order to get reliable averages.

 

[pandemonium]

Ah, so it's more-or-less specific to the machine running the tasks then? I was under the presumption it was largely due to the luck of the draw with the work units you're given.

I'll continue running them all to get a good aggregate then figure out which seems to produce the best results for me.

Thanks!

 

[StefanR5R]

Regarding individual WUs, it is both specific to machines (hardware and OS) and luck of the draw. But over many WUs, it boils down to the machine.

Edit: Differences between machines should be correlated with OS, core count, and clock mostly, but CPU architecture and platform only secondarily. Current WCG applications do not use special features like AVX, nor are they sensitive to RAM bandwidth or whatever, as far as I have seen in my tests.

 

[pandemonium]

Right, right. I just need to figure out what seems to work best for my machine after getting a good sample size. Gotcha.

*So far, OET is giving me the best results ratio: over 1 per hour of work time spent. If these continue on like this, I'll strip my subprojects down to MIB, OZ, OET, and possibly CCW. FAAH, MCM, and CEP are terrible for my results. *In fact, I'm discontinuing receiving further tasks for FAAH and MCM. We're participating in more points races than results races and I'd like to contribute to all of the subprojects, so I've decided to just allow them all to run.

subProject hours R/h
MIB 30 0.866666667
SCC 7 0.571428571
OZ 21 0.619047619
FAAH 99 0.353535354
OET 28 1.035714286
MCM 80 0.3625
CCW 3 0.666666667
CEP 17 0.176470588
HCC 1 1

 

[ao_ika_red]

I pointed out "Dec 2017 By-results All-projects" because this competition is based on result count, not points, and we are closer to Decrypthon in this race than in the others which are points based.

cmiiw, I'm better off with short duration sub-projects rather than medium to long duration sub-projects so we'll have better chance toppling Decrypthon from 2nd place. Am I correct?

 

[StefanR5R]

So far, OSET is giving me the best results ratio: over 1 per hour of work time spent.

Results per hour is one thing, points per hour (WCG points/h = 7 * BOINC "cobblestones"/h) is another, and there is not a fixed relationship between them.

I believe the WCG project as a whole attempts to equalize points/h between all their subprojects. But they can do so only for the average over all of the donors' machines, hence appreciable differences between subprojects on a single given machine will remain.

cmiiw, I'm better off with short duration sub-projects rather than medium to long duration sub-projects so we'll have better chance toppling Decrypthon from 2nd place. Am I correct?

Correct in the By-results race.

There is also a By-time race and the Dollars Run which rank the contestants purely by CPU time, acknowledging the contribution of old/ low-clocked CPUs same as new/ fast ones.

The other WCG challenges which we are currently engaged in are points based, like we are used to from most BOINC competitions. (PrimeGrid sometimes holds competitions which are not credits based: Tour de Primes.)

 

[pandemonium]

Results per hour is one thing, points per hour (WCG points/h = 7 * BOINC "cobblestones"/h) is another, and there is not a fixed relationship between them.

I noticed that subprojects that typically have lower results/hour also typically have higher points/hour. Which raises the question: is it worth focusing on results, or find a weighted combination between points and results? I was thinking of weighting it at 80% results and 20% points so I can determine which subprojects to keep cranking.

Thoughts?

 

[StefanR5R]

Hard to answer, maybe throw dice? On my Linux machines, it is easier: OET has high results/h and high points/h. On my Windows machines, I run MCM because I want to contribute there.

 

[StefanR5R]

Spoiler: Christmas Race 2017 stats, Friday, December 8

Rank    Team                                              Score    3-day avg.    Fri, Dec 8    Thu, Dec 7    Wed, Dec 6    Tue, Dec 5    Mon, Dec 4    Sun, Dec 3    Sat, Dec 2    Fri, Dec 1
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1       HardOCP                                     132,500,388    15,827,988    17,085,742    16,011,601    14,386,620    14,590,639    14,625,666    14,140,557    15,141,949    26,517,614
2       Team China                                  128,107,364    15,555,395    15,904,107    15,415,919    15,346,158    15,585,137    16,440,585    16,329,877    16,192,052    16,893,529
3  -->  TeAm AnandTech                               37,144,919     4,179,383     4,036,453     3,635,413     4,866,284     4,022,767     3,107,254     4,450,246     5,535,110     7,491,392
4       Team Andrax                                  21,086,030     2,612,044     2,626,256     2,634,390     2,575,485     2,539,397     2,815,432     2,645,391     2,547,757     2,701,922
5       UK                                           18,168,536     2,271,437     2,302,757     2,285,776     2,225,778     2,121,178     2,274,506     2,073,122     2,371,696     2,513,723
6       SNURK and friends                            14,419,952     1,799,341     1,901,363     1,779,648     1,717,011     1,778,759     1,806,261     1,780,539     1,840,176     1,816,195
7       MyOnlineTeam                                 10,530,710     1,295,425     1,275,808     1,293,919     1,316,547     1,309,480     1,346,764     1,325,133     1,335,162     1,327,897
8       BRASIL - BRAZIL@GRID                          8,080,788     1,080,458     1,054,242     1,097,129     1,090,004     1,028,106     1,088,218       870,170       888,051       964,868
9       SETIKAH@KOREA                                 5,020,768       648,489       680,597       603,712       661,159       636,243       699,300       605,266       562,602       571,889
10      Vulture Central III                           4,260,066       524,246       528,653       558,980       485,104       532,900       539,894       552,343       536,809       525,383
11      Kraland                                       3,369,682       454,035       489,724       461,947       410,433       385,603       418,173       407,950       375,436       420,416
12      top40.nl                                      2,938,147       513,214       513,949       525,138       500,554       427,642       337,621       276,301       187,665       169,277
13      SeriousCrunchers                              2,620,463       511,999       531,358       508,259       496,379       358,990       376,675       348,802             0          n.a.
14      Chicago-IL-USA                                2,194,892       263,653       278,795       247,336       264,829       247,461       271,781       269,377       309,215       306,098
15      CHINA BOINC                                   1,321,854       190,026       200,364       213,536       156,179       153,036       131,204       171,493       145,741       150,301
16      Special: Off-Topic                              800,634       112,905       125,987       119,407        93,322        74,784        63,868        89,752        88,156       145,358
17      Liverpool Community Grid                        740,125        56,699        59,676        53,345        57,075        69,397        88,197       106,242       155,402       150,791
18      UCSB Active                                     717,257        95,772        83,992       109,691        93,633       103,264        89,930        87,334        81,883        67,530
19      Abstract Media                                  688,295        80,655        91,275        70,161        80,529        86,818        90,297        94,333        91,173        83,709
20      NULL-A                                          590,925        80,020        89,293        74,319        76,449        71,090        78,740        50,046        69,155        81,833
21      Sweden#Crunch                                   532,384        68,142        72,562        68,876        62,987        65,266        62,756        66,018        65,710        68,209
22      BOINC@Malaysia                                  510,066        72,436        62,380        85,881        69,047        72,666        56,004        48,844        53,483        61,761
23      Bird Conservation                               392,116        39,323        40,584        36,754        40,631        58,314        47,922        52,181        57,527        58,203
24      Naked for the World                             373,362        39,335        38,744        38,549        40,712        24,769        54,951        24,600        96,193        54,844
25      World Bus LTD                                   289,425        40,025        45,893        38,964        35,217        37,213        39,920        32,445        29,741        30,032
26      oliopur78                                       283,661        32,447        42,829        24,518        29,993        40,004        40,107        29,660        26,133        50,417
27      ALSACE COMMUNITY GRID                           205,092        28,245        36,236        24,969        23,529        23,718        21,360        27,639        21,837        25,804
28      Just Me                                         187,907        24,648        26,441        25,241        22,262        24,073        23,491        23,356        20,645        22,398
29      BOINC@TOKYO                                     176,025        17,706        28,437        13,408        11,274        15,402        18,984        36,941        22,099        29,480
30      STUDIO Mia                                      174,606        21,988        19,749        30,750        15,464        17,590        15,257        23,389        29,344        23,063
31      ACOLISYS (Campinas-SP / Brazil)                 128,461        14,062         4,745        18,075        19,367        18,554        21,677        16,489        11,048        18,506
32      Harbin University of Science and Technology     122,140        15,862        19,699        11,859        16,027        14,533        14,452        15,462        13,347        16,761
33      ProjectArea51                                   120,797        15,767        10,042        13,607        23,652        18,231        10,692        16,354        13,485        14,734
34      Day drive                                       115,746        13,668        15,316        11,129        14,559        14,977        14,387        13,927        13,464        17,987
35      UTAR Malaysia                                   110,186        11,645        13,983         7,938        13,014        14,764        12,443        24,407        13,784         9,853
36      BOINC@Pfalz                                     109,354        12,159        16,942        11,816         7,718        18,526        15,482        16,590        13,021         9,259
37      SHANGHAI 2009                                    90,132         9,758         8,761         5,358        15,156        13,215         9,931        14,078        10,180        13,453
38      Aussie Helpers                                   23,280         2,751         2,176         2,668         3,408         3,412         6,581         3,162           474         1,399
39      kuegmi                                           14,555         1,766         1,792         1,782         1,725         1,816         1,840         1,469         1,784         2,347
40      Crunchers4Life                                    4,281           329             0           642           344           599           839             0           675         1,182
41      kouro                                                 0             0             0             0             0             0             0             0             0             0

All current challenges: Our rankings are unchanged from Monday (post #35).
In "Dec 2017 By-points All-projects", we are at 77 % of the team in front of us.
In "Dec 2017 By-results All-projects", we are at 86 % of the team in front of us.

Per-user stats: See our free-dc WCG page. Yesterday's free-dc stats are systematically lower than WCG's own stats though, across all teams as far as I have looked.

Both Team China and [H]ard|OCP have increased their output relative to Thursday, with the [H] being on top with 17.1 M : 15.9 M on Friday.

 

[Skillz]

Thanks for your charts, StefanR5R. I've been stealing them and posting them on [H]... with a little tweak.

 

[StefanR5R]

Yep, I've noticed while spying on your forum.

Edit, re the Einstein problem of your team mate: One needs to make sure to click the Save Changes link at the bottom of Einstein's Preferences--Project page.

 

[Howdy]

WCG general curiosity about the "points"

Example:
Log Out Hi Howdy2u2 Points 1,175,945 < on WCG user page but when you look at the Free-DC page I have 172,762 Why?? Why is there such a difference?

Never mind I answered my own question:

Why are points on the agent and the web different?

World Community Grid in the past ran two types of agents. A United Devices (UD Windows) agent and a BOINC (Windows/Linux/Mac) agent. Today, World Community Grid only runs the BOINC agent. Points contributed by both of the agents will be part of a member's total on the website. However, only points contributed by BOINC agents will be shown on the BOINC agents. The points previously earned by a UD agent only appear on the website. Additionally, due to differences in how the agents computed points, BOINC points are multiplied by 7 when they are imported into the website. Thus if you earned 5 BOINC points, you will see 35 website points.

 

[StefanR5R]

Spoiler: Christmas Race 2017 stats, Saturday, December 9

Rank    Team                                              Score    3-day avg.    Sat, Dec 9    Fri, Dec 8      Dec 1 - 7
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1       HardOCP                                     149,849,432    16,815,462    17,349,044    17,085,742    115,414,646
2       Team China                                  143,853,676    15,688,779    15,746,312    15,904,107    112,203,257
3  -->  TeAm AnandTech                               42,992,306     4,506,418     5,847,387     4,036,453     33,108,466
4       Team Andrax                                  23,692,398     2,622,338     2,606,368     2,626,256     18,459,774
5       UK                                           20,466,096     2,295,364     2,297,560     2,302,757     15,865,779
6       SNURK and friends                            16,302,470     1,854,510     1,882,518     1,901,363     12,518,589
7       MyOnlineTeam                                 11,805,360     1,281,459     1,274,650     1,275,808      9,254,902
8       BRASIL - BRAZIL@GRID                          8,882,157       984,247       801,369     1,054,242      7,026,546
9       SETIKAH@KOREA                                 5,670,423       644,655       649,655       680,597      4,340,171
10      Vulture Central III                           4,784,416       537,328       524,350       528,653      3,731,413
11      Kraland                                       3,855,957       479,315       486,275       489,724      2,879,958
12      top40.nl                                      3,449,202       516,714       511,055       513,949      2,424,198
13      SeriousCrunchers                              3,116,604       511,919       496,141       531,358      2,089,105
14      Chicago-IL-USA                                2,470,998       267,412       276,106       278,795      1,916,097
15      CHINA BOINC                                   1,459,298       183,781       137,444       200,364      1,121,490
16      Special: Off-Topic                              929,188       124,649       128,554       125,987        674,647
17      UCSB Active                                     790,436        88,954        73,179        83,992        633,265
18      Liverpool Community Grid                        786,251        53,049        46,126        59,676        680,449
19      Abstract Media                                  769,894        81,012        81,599        91,275        597,020
20      NULL-A                                          663,127        78,605        72,202        89,293        501,632
21      Sweden#Crunch                                   595,783        68,279        63,399        72,562        459,822
22      BOINC@Malaysia                                  569,336        69,177        59,270        62,380        447,686
23      Bird Conservation                               432,125        39,116        40,009        40,584        351,532
24      Naked for the World                             411,761        38,564        38,399        38,744        334,618
25      World Bus LTD                                   320,890        38,774        31,465        45,893        243,532
26      oliopur78                                       317,533        33,740        33,872        42,829        240,832
27      ALSACE COMMUNITY GRID                           231,071        29,061        25,979        36,236        168,856
28      Just Me                                         217,129        26,968        29,222        26,441        161,466
29      BOINC@TOKYO                                     199,994        21,938        23,969        28,437        147,588
30      STUDIO Mia                                      194,980        23,624        20,374        19,749        154,857
31      Harbin University of Science and Technology     138,853        16,090        16,713        19,699        102,441
32      ACOLISYS (Campinas-SP / Brazil)                 133,243         9,201         4,782         4,745        123,716
33      UTAR Malaysia                                   129,634        13,790        19,448        13,983         96,203
34      ProjectArea51                                   122,314         8,389         1,517        10,042        110,755
35      BOINC@Pfalz                                     121,462        13,622        12,108        16,942         92,412
36      Day drive                                       119,201         9,967         3,455        15,316        100,430
37      SHANGHAI 2009                                    95,803         6,597         5,671         8,761         81,371
38      Aussie Helpers                                   28,174         3,246         4,894         2,176         21,104
39      kuegmi                                           16,628         1,882         2,073         1,792         12,763
40      Crunchers4Life                                    4,281           214             0             0          4,281
41      kouro                                                 0             0             0             0              0

All current challenges: Our rankings are unchanged from Monday (post #35).
In "Dec 2017 By-points All-projects", we are at 78 % of the team in front of us (up from 77 % on Friday).
In "Dec 2017 By-results All-projects", we are at 92 % of the team in front of us (up from 86 % on Friday).

Per-user stats: See our free-dc WCG page. Saturday's free-dc stats are systematically higher than WCG's own stats, and Friday's free-dc starts are lower, probably due to a brief maintenance outage at WCG.

 

[iwajabitw]

Some how I didn't think about this race with folding going on, so yesterday I let my CPU finish at folding and started WCG on 18 threads last night. This morning I changed tasks from MIP to MCM. So I am in.

 

[StefanR5R]

@iwajabitw, great! While our position in the Christmas Race, The Dollars Run, and DecCancerFight looks like a done deal if we keep it up, we may yet advance in the "Dec 2017 By-* All-projects" challenges. (Or in fact, win back our better ranking that we had early on thanks to ~1-2 days bunkering.)

The team to catch in these races, Decrypthon, had higher daily output than us in the last days, but stats.free-dc shows us producing more in the last update. Decrypthon has 446 active users in the latest update. Catching up with them will be quite a feat.

 

[Howdy]

Catching up with them will be quite a feat.

Well I don't, but it sounds good anyway...........

 

[TennesseeTony]

Oh no, Skeletor just beeped a million times and crashed. It happened right after I played the He-Man video above! Dang you Howdy! (Just kidding, "Skeletor" hasn't crashed, but his name's-sake was He-Man's enemy, if you are not familiar that cartoon series.)

 

[Howdy]

Oh no, Skeletor just beeped a million times and crashed. It happened right after I played the He-Man video above! Dang you Howdy! (Just kidding, "Skeletor" hasn't crashed, but his name's-sake was He-Man's enemy, if you are not familiar that cartoon series.)

Yes sir I am of the age that knows about that cartoon Clutch Cargo ring a bell?