Cookie Monster
Diamond Member
- May 7, 2005
- 5,161
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- Status
destrekor
Lifer
- Nov 18, 2005
- 28,799
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Not true actually, anyone who has played with water cooling can attest to it, running the same spec (clocks, vcore) GPU at the typical =>80-85C versus sub 60C will save power. Mine on water was loading 200W each while bitcoin mining, but at 94C stock reference, they were loading 250W. It's a huge difference.
Liquid Nitrogen will lower power usage even more if clocks/vcore are constant.
Um.. that's exactly what I said.
No chip is going to be anywhere near efficient at 80ºC and higher.
I was stating that, when compared to well-cooled systems (40-60ºC), going colder isn't going to bring more efficiency, not of a scientifically significant amount. Of course, it works backwards from there: you lose efficiency as you climb in temperature.
WaitingForNehalem
Platinum Member
- Aug 24, 2008
- 2,497
- 0
- 71
Saw this posted elsewhere. Seems like the changes in how 970's are marketed is happening in some places.
http://www.nexths.it/v3/flypage.php...urce=TrovaPrezzi&sembox_content=GTX+970+4GD5T
An Italian site has it listed.
http://www.nexths.it/v3/flypage.php...urce=TrovaPrezzi&sembox_content=GTX+970+4GD5T
An Italian site has it listed.
That is Hilarious!
Just waiting for low end card to ship with a bunch old DDR1 and DDR2 chips in a bag and marketed as 10GB card.
You get 2GB on the cards and additional 8GB in a bag. You still get full 10GB memory.
guskline
Diamond Member
- Apr 17, 2006
- 5,338
- 476
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May seem hilarious to you but at least the end consumer had "some" notice of the possible limitations
Yikes,when you can joke like this about a card then you know its just damaged goods.Just horrible.
I wonder how many of us would've bought these cards with the specs truthfully listed as that.
I wouldnt.
I actually got bestbuy to return my 970 which was well past 30days purchased. I had to show their manager the special note that nvidia sent me. They were not willing to go for cash refund but allowed me to exchange the card for anything on their shelf........
My options: R7 270, gtx 970, gtx760, r7 260, 750ti, or the gtx980.
There may have been some other lowly cards but nothing i was remotely interested.
They had no 290(x)s in store at all. And looking on their site, i dont think they stock them on any shelf anywhere. Not anywhere near me, i specifically checked and turned up no results.
I had to return the 970 as i wanted the full 64ROPs and cache. Honestly, i wouldnt have bought the card had i knew it was cut down so far. My only option was to trade in store so i traded for a gtx 980 and payed the difference.
Here is the thing.....and i think it could even be worthy of its own thread.
As upset as we have seen so many people, this huge deal that we seen made over this, across every major forum and on the front page of every major tech site.........
The 2 bestbuy locations i went to had no idea what i was talking about. Their geek squad had no idea what i was talking about. These were not dinky bestbuys, I went to two of their large store memphis locations. These are their larger stores.......
But neither heard or knew anything about the misrepresented 970 specs.
I honestly expected at least someone in their geek squad would have heard. Nope!!!!
The nvidia forums have blown up, not just here in the US but in many places. There are hundreds of thousands of combined pages that deal with the topic, a lot of freaking noise has been made. It looks to be this major tragic catastrophe.........
But i am not sure this is as wide spread this thing is now at all. The petition which spreads across the ocean, EU + US.........
Less than 6000 people signed.
And this is plastered on every forum, on every tech site, everywhere across the net. Google nvidia news and you will see will find it, entire articles dealing with gtx970 having wrong specs. But apparently its not the issue that i thought it was. Nowhere as large as the noise that has been made.......
The geforce forums in the US alone has thousands of pages on this issue. But if you look at them, over and over you will see the same pictures, the same names, the same users. There are a few strays here and there but it is mostly populated by the same posters. Page after page, thread after thread. What i dont understand is why these same people havent returned their gtx970s yet? It seems like the ones that have put real effort in returning them were successful. I mean, if I can convince a bestbuy manager to return a card that is over a month past their return policy, one that has no idea what i am even talking about at all, then i am sure many others could too.
But i guess the point is that customers shouldnt have to go through the hassle. And i cannot argue that. I have several pages of opinion i sent Nvidia's Gareth directly. I think it is a shame. But........
This isnt as big or wide spread as i thought. It really isnt.
And i dont know how i feel about that
I actually got bestbuy to return my 970 which was well past 30days purchased. I had to show their manager the special note that nvidia sent me. They were not willing to go for cash refund but allowed me to exchange the card for anything on their shelf........
My options: R7 270, gtx 970, gtx760, r7 260, 750ti, or the gtx980.
There may have been some other lowly cards but nothing i was remotely interested.
They had no 290(x)s in store at all. And looking on their site, i dont think they stock them on any shelf anywhere. Not anywhere near me, i specifically checked and turned up no results.
I had to return the 970 as i wanted the full 64ROPs and cache. Honestly, i wouldnt have bought the card had i knew it was cut down so far. My only option was to trade in store so i traded for a gtx 980 and payed the difference.
Here is the thing.....and i think it could even be worthy of its own thread.
As upset as we have seen so many people, this huge deal that we seen made over this, across every major forum and on the front page of every major tech site.........
The 2 bestbuy locations i went to had no idea what i was talking about. Their geek squad had no idea what i was talking about. These were not dinky bestbuys, I went to two of their large store memphis locations. These are their larger stores.......
But neither heard or knew anything about the misrepresented 970 specs.
I honestly expected at least someone in their geek squad would have heard. Nope!!!!
The nvidia forums have blown up, not just here in the US but in many places. There are hundreds of thousands of combined pages that deal with the topic, a lot of freaking noise has been made. It looks to be this major tragic catastrophe.........
But i am not sure this is as wide spread this thing is now at all. The petition which spreads across the ocean, EU + US.........
Less than 6000 people signed.
And this is plastered on every forum, on every tech site, everywhere across the net. Google nvidia news and you will see will find it, entire articles dealing with gtx970 having wrong specs. But apparently its not the issue that i thought it was. Nowhere as large as the noise that has been made.......
The geforce forums in the US alone has thousands of pages on this issue. But if you look at them, over and over you will see the same pictures, the same names, the same users. There are a few strays here and there but it is mostly populated by the same posters. Page after page, thread after thread. What i dont understand is why these same people havent returned their gtx970s yet? It seems like the ones that have put real effort in returning them were successful. I mean, if I can convince a bestbuy manager to return a card that is over a month past their return policy, one that has no idea what i am even talking about at all, then i am sure many others could too.
But i guess the point is that customers shouldnt have to go through the hassle. And i cannot argue that. I have several pages of opinion i sent Nvidia's Gareth directly. I think it is a shame. But........
This isnt as big or wide spread as i thought. It really isnt.
And i dont know how i feel about that
destrekor
Lifer
- Nov 18, 2005
- 28,799
- 359
- 126
Of course it isn't wide spread. The common demographic of Best Buy shopper is woefully uneducated in the details of technology. I say that as a regular shopper - with price match, I'm very happy when Best Buy has what I want in stock, and I even have Amazon Prime. In-store returns and future sale price match = awesome.
Their Geek Squad folk really aren't that highly-skilled either, when you average them all. They have some knowledgeable folk, for sure, I know a few who were quite adept in my classes. But many are at the level where they may just know enough to cause more harm if they aren't careful, and don't understand the underlying technology or science that may drive more educated decisions. This is not to say they can't render the services they offer at the store, but if you know tech, I wouldn't seek them out for recommendations or anything.
Most people, the ones who rarely venture onto any forum, just aren't going to be keeping up with regular tech news. They may stumble upon this info in a few months when looking for opinions on google for the GTX 970 they saw at Best Buy, but this and other performance issues of silicon matters aren't found in newspapers or the regular newspaper-style websites where most people look for news.
If there is a lawsuit, it *might* be featured in a small blurb in that sector of the media.
I thought about returning my second 970 a couple times. Currently into them for about $5-$10 more than the 980.
Seems like using FarCry 4 for example one needs to really crank the eye candy beyond what's actually playable....Too me at least. Looking for 100fps is my goal.
I'm CPU limited with my 4690k @4.2GHz as my cores peg at times. Using 4xMSSA as other AA gives me ghost image.
Bestbuy --> Has no idea what it is, fights you to return, when you do return doesn't even carry the competing cards
Amazon --> First retailer to know about issue and offer unified response, allows returns for credit so you can get whatever, has significantly better selection and also better prices
destrekor
Lifer
- Nov 18, 2005
- 28,799
- 359
- 126
Not true actually, anyone who has played with water cooling can attest to it, running the same spec (clocks, vcore) GPU at the typical =>80-85C versus sub 60C will save power. Mine on water was loading 200W each while bitcoin mining, but at 94C stock reference, they were loading 250W. It's a huge difference.
Liquid Nitrogen will lower power usage even more if clocks/vcore are constant.
My bad, I didn't even address your LN2 statement.
At first, I didn't believe the value would be significant, as charts looked as if reference power draw in relation to temperature started to reach the minimal edge of the logarithmic scale.
You would be right, in the end, as when you raise voltage and go to extreme cooling, the typical power draw increase drops significantly, and the higher you go with both voltage and clockrate, the more significant the drop.
TIL.
SteveGrabowski
Diamond Member
- Oct 20, 2014
- 8,957
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I'm kind of surprised you'd expect Geek Squad to know their a-- from a hole in the ground, ocre. They're just salesmen, they don't have to know jack about PCs, just how to convince people to buy extended warranties.
RussianSensation
Elite Member
- Sep 5, 2003
- 19,458
- 765
- 126
BestBuy is not great for buying most electronics, especially not PC parts. Not only do you have to pay US taxes, but product selection is poor. It only makes sense if someone gifted you gift cards. While the initial GPU prices might align with Amazon/Newegg, etc., over time as GPUs fall in price, BestBuy/sister FutureShop maintain high prices.
In Canada I would much rather support NCIX or Canada Computers. Also, I don't recall BestBuy selling MSI Lightning or ASUS Matrix. Their selection is often very limited.
In Canada I would much rather support NCIX or Canada Computers. Also, I don't recall BestBuy selling MSI Lightning or ASUS Matrix. Their selection is often very limited.
KaRLiToS
Golden Member
- Jul 30, 2010
- 1,918
- 11
- 81
I live in Canada, Montréal, and I remember going at a BestBuy like 5-6 weeks after the GTX Titan was released. I was there to check things while waiting for my girlfriend was shopping for something else in the mall. I noticed most of their cards were low-End and mid-end but mostly low-end which I don't even know about.
I went to the counter to check their prices on high-end cards and I asked the guy at the counter: "How much is the GTX Titan?"
He said: "What?". I asked again how much is the GTX Titan and he replied: "GTX Systan????".
I said: "Nevermind" and I left the building.
destrekor
Lifer
- Nov 18, 2005
- 28,799
- 359
- 126
I live in Canada, Montréal, and I remember going at a BestBuy like 5-6 weeks after the GTX Titan was released. I was there to check things while waiting for my girlfriend was shopping for something else in the mall. I noticed most of their cards were low-End and mid-end but mostly low-end which I don't even know about.
I went to the counter to check their prices on high-end cards and I asked the guy at the counter: "How much is the GTX Titan?"
He said: "What?". I asked again how much is the GTX Titan and he replied: "GTX Systan????".
I said: "Nevermind" and I left the building.
I prefer to do all my research online, so that I know what I need or want from BB once I'm there. I might do some simple comparisons once there, as seeing it and the competing products in person does wonders to help, but I generally am in and out with little fuss.
They can have good deals, and at times I have gotten something without even having the chance to price match because all the typical places I'd expect to be cheaper, had the exact same price or a few dollars more. If it's cheaper but Best Buy has it in stock, I'll usually go there. I don't expect to get much in the way of any internal computer parts, and frankly, I rarely do, but sometimes hard drives or other items can be had for decent prices, though their performance selection is very minimal. Most of my actual computer parts I get elsewhere. The tax-evasion route isn't even that ideal of a reason to avoid BB anymore, because it's easy to get taxed online nowadays due to most of these businesses having an increasing presence across the country. I think Amazon collects tax now in Ohio.
The train wreck continues, now including the 980m
http://tech4gamers.com/nvidia-geforce-gtx-980m-also-memory-problem/
http://tech4gamers.com/nvidia-geforce-gtx-980m-also-memory-problem/
and from that site
"Well, for now take it which a pinch of salt as no other source has not yet confirmed the report of GameNab, but this situation seems quite likely. Interestingly, according to the editors, the GeForce GTX 970 and GTX 980m are not only the NVIDIA graphics cards with the problem of memory access. Its getting interesting "
Sounds like others should get that memory test downloaded and run to see how their card runs.
Bestbuy was one of the few places in the world to get a gtx970 reference. Thats the 970 i wanted. I am not recommending them for GPU purchases but you can purchases several 290s on their website. Online they have many more options than what they carry on their shelves.
Take a look at my post here
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2417448&page=8
Not sure what i was expecting but the difference isnt much. SLI might be a different story, idk.
Anyway, My crap monitor is 60hz. I have been playing with DSR exclusively. you might be able to get a bump up in AA but most of the settings that were unplayable with the 970 are still not pleasant on the 980. Like 4x DSR on Inquisition with ultra settings. Even with MSAA off using Post proc AA, unplayable with the 970 and while the framerates were improved, still lower than i want to play.
but yeah, 30-45fps is smoother than 15-30
Take a look at my post here
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2417448&page=8
Not sure what i was expecting but the difference isnt much. SLI might be a different story, idk.
Anyway, My crap monitor is 60hz. I have been playing with DSR exclusively. you might be able to get a bump up in AA but most of the settings that were unplayable with the 970 are still not pleasant on the 980. Like 4x DSR on Inquisition with ultra settings. Even with MSAA off using Post proc AA, unplayable with the 970 and while the framerates were improved, still lower than i want to play.
but yeah, 30-45fps is smoother than 15-30
I do the same
I pick out a item , then keep checking both sites for the item to come on sale check what stores have stock , then pick it up.
most days one of their outlets will only be 10-15 minutes out of my way.
at Canada Computors RH I had preorder my mb ,when it came in I went down to pick it up , before the manager would take my money he opened it up then we confirmed there were no bent cpu pins ,no ports or mb headers had damage ,counted every acc, cables sli bridge etc.
after that he took my money when no issues were found .it felt great as bent cpu pins always has that who done it for rma's.[never had it but you never know]
sorry for the ot
piesquared
Golden Member
- Oct 16, 2006
- 1,651
- 473
- 136
Something tells me that Pascal cards next year wont inherit Maxwell's capability to disable its resources so granularly.. or at least will make sure that the underlying interconnect in that case will be able to work at full speed like a full chip, or a chip cut down the way it's been cut down all these years, not half way through.
What a disaster. Now in a notebook I don't think you'll run into the same problems as hard as the 970 in the future with future games since you'll be most likely gaming with the notebook's display, mitigating in some way the pressure on the effective full speed memory.. but then nothing stops you from hooking it up to an >1080p HDTV... or that shiny new 4k display. In such cases you'll have to drop some settings to keep it playable... but the problem is there.
The 970 fiasco, now this, and the other thread showing "Gsync" somewhat working on an adaptive sync compliant notebook display, without the Gsync module. Nvidia had stated they wouldn't support adaptive sync... and then you hear that.
What is going on at nvidia lately? Lies and contradictions here and there
It appears that the GTX 970 is working as intended.
So apparently the GTX 970 was deliberately designed to cause hitching and stuttering when accessing its last 500MB of VRAM.
Nothing more to see here, I guess.
https://twitter.com/NVIDIAGeForce/status/560881138869497856
So apparently the GTX 970 was deliberately designed to cause hitching and stuttering when accessing its last 500MB of VRAM.
Nothing more to see here, I guess.
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