[WCCF] AMD Radeon R9 390X Pictured

[96Firebird]

R9 290X beats 780Ti at 1440P and 4K and that's despite 438mm2 vs. 561mm2 die size.

I'm confused on how this matters in the slightest...

 

[Abwx]

Is it really odd?

In February 2012, Nvidia released the original Titan for $999. Then, three months later, they released the GTX 780 for $649, using a cut-down version of the same GK110 chip (with half the RAM of the Titan) for performance nearly as good in games.

In March 2015, Nvidia released the Titan X for $999. Then, three months later, they released the GTX 980 Ti for $649, using a cut-down version of the same GM200 chip (with half the RAM of the Titan X) for performance nearly as good in games.

In retrospect, this shouldn't have been too difficult to predict...

Predictions you said..?.

What about being accurate with the past to start with, where is the 780TI in this affair..?..

 

[Vesku]

I'm quoting what WCCFTech has said (which says they planned to show the card today, but the release of the 980ti messed up those plans.) This entire thread is speculation.

The conference looked to be focused on Carrizo. I don't think we were ever going to get any performance information at Computex, E3 seems to be their (soft?) launch. Is the insinuation that they were going to show the whole PCB? Why would the 980Ti change their plans on that at all?

 

[96Firebird]

Predictions you said..?.

What about being accurate with the past to start with, where is the 780TI in this affair..?..

What does the 780 Ti have to do with what he said...?

In both instances, Nvidia was in the lead with no competition, and still released a lower priced, equally performing card 3 months later.

That is all there is to take away from that.

But we still have people who say Nvidia rushed the 980 Ti's release because they're scared? History proves otherwise...

 

[maddie]

I'm confused on how this matters in the slightest...

Because AMD will have a massive die as never before to go head to head with Nvidia, I'm certain you know what he means.

If AMD can challenge Nvidia with a much smaller die than what happens if they are similar in size.

 

[96Firebird]

Because AMD will have a massive die as never before to go head to head with Nvidia, I'm certain you know what he means.

If AMD can challenge Nvidia with a much smaller die than what happens if they are similar in size.

Does Maxwell not exist?

 

[ocre]

That is an interesting point. How likely is it that so few aftermarket cards are available?

Might we suggest rushed launch? :sneaky:

That's how you keep leaks tight. It is not unusual at all either. Nvidia has done this for every major flagship release as of late

 

[LTC8K6]

I really need AMD to be successful with this launch really badly. I need a gpu that will allow me to run in 5760 x 1080p that is better than what the GTX 980ti can offer me. Also I'm kind of force to buy AMD now cause Surround doesn't do it for me.

We all need Fiji to be competitive, whether we are AMD fans or NV fans or indifferent.

Competition improves the cards and the drivers.

 

[Silverforce11]

It doesn't matter who believes it.

It's the mystery about it that does the job.
It's the discussions it starts.
It's the arguments it creates.

It's publicity, it's gossip, it's the grapevine. It stirs people up.

No, that's not the same thing at all to simply say "our card is fastest".

A mysterious leak or two stirs the pot, and starts it bubbling.

You mean every single tech site out there discussing the merits or speculating AMD's upcoming GPUs for months is not enough? Ha!

A few leaks here and there, started last year if you paid attention.

Feel free to speculate & discuss these points, which is official straight from AMD!

1. Fiji will be the fastest GPU in the world. By how much? My guess is ~20% faster than Titan X.

2. Fiji will use slightly less power in gaming than R290X. You are free to speculate whether that's true.

 

[maddie]

What does the 780 Ti have to do with what he said...?

In both instances, Nvidia was in the lead with no competition, and still released a lower priced, equally performing card 3 months later.

That is all there is to take away from that.

But we still have people who say Nvidia rushed the 980 Ti's release because they're scared? History proves otherwise...

Whilst you can use history as a guide, it never should be used to PROVE the future. Tell that to every army that fought the last war.

 

[thehotsung8701A]

We all need Fiji to be competitive, whether we are AMD fans or NV fans or indifferent.

Competition improves the cards and the drivers.

This wait is so painful:'(

 

[LTC8K6]

You mean every single tech site out there discussing the merits or speculating AMD's upcoming GPUs for months is not enough? Ha!

A few leaks here and there, started last year if you paid attention.

Feel free to speculate & discuss:

1. Fiji will be the fastest GPU in the world. By how much? My guess is ~20% faster than Titan X.

2. Fiji will use slightly less power in gaming than R290X. You are free to speculate whether that's true, or go with the other team and continue to spread the myth that its HOT (with a water cooler?!) or 2x 8pin 375W power hungry!

While I don't care much about the power, we were shown pics of a short water cooled RADEON card with 2X8pin power connectors.

 

[96Firebird]

Whilst you can use history as a guide, it never should be used to PROVE the future. Tell that to every army that fought the last war.

When it worked so well the first time, why not do it again?

 

[LTC8K6]

This wait is so painful:'(

Just hope that it will turn out to have been worth it.

 

[JDG1980]

Regarding the R9 390X, if the $499 price leak from Sweclockers is accurate, then the rumors about the 390X being a straight Hawaii rebrand can't be true. Nvidia just dropped the GTX 980 price to $499, so if AMD is going to position the R9 390X at the same price point, then it has to beat the 980 comfortably in performance (at least 10% or so), and have competitive perf/watt.

The rebrand rumors have R9 390X with 1050 MHz core clock, faster RAM (1250->1500), and 8GB of RAM instead of 4GB. Most of this would make a negligible difference on Hawaii; the existing R9 290/X cards aren't bottlenecked by memory bandwidth, and most current games, at any settings that Hawaii can do faster than a slideshow, would see no advantage from 8GB over 4GB. None of this makes sense. Has AMD done stupid things in the past? Absolutely. Would this rebrand, as rumored, be a stupid thing? Very much so.

The only way a $499 price point would make any sense is if the new R9 390X chip (rumored to be called "Grenada") is a substantial improvement over Hawaii, on the same order of magnitude as Nvidia's GF100->GF110 Fermi refresh back in 2010. The original GF100 was hot, loud, power-hungry, and didn't really fulfill all its potential. GF110 not only had much lower leakage (for cooler operation at less wattage) but incorporated some architectural tweaks to improve performance as well. In addition, the GF110-based GTX 580 had more shaders (the GF100-based GTX 480 had to disable some because it just didn't have the TDP headroom).

If Grenada is a completely revamped Hawaii with 3072 shaders on a lower-leakage process, then competitive positioning against the GTX 980 makes more sense. TechPowerUp's charts have the R9 290X at 81% of the GTX 980's performance at 1080p. 2816->3072 shaders would give ~9% performance increase; clock speed bumps to 1150 MHz would give another 10% or so; and updating the architecture to GCN 1.2 could add another 10% or so on top of that. This would give... let's see... 0.81 x 1.09 x 1.10 x 1.10 = ~1.07, so maybe 7% better than GTX 980 at 1080p, and more at higher resolutions where the performance gap between Hawaii and GM204 is smaller. I expect the TDP of R9 390/390X cards to be no more than 250W, and that's for FurMark; most games will run not far above 200W.

Of course, it's still possible that the R9 390/390X are straight rebrands, but if they are, then (1) it would be a very poor decision on AMD's part, and (2) there's no freaking way the R9 390X is going to retail for anywhere near $499.

At this point I'm beginning to wonder if Fiji is a highly optimized gaming-first stopgap part, similar to Nvidia's Maxwell chips, and Grenada is the new professional flagship. We're 95% sure that Fiji, at least at this time, is going to be limited to 4GB of RAM, and if that's a marketing problem in the gaming arena, it's a deal-killer for many professional users. Is AMD really going to release a professional flagship with one-fourth the RAM of the past generation's card? (FirePro W9100 has 16GB of GDDR5.)

 

[maddie]

Does Maxwell not exist?

Maxwell is latest and 398mm2. Hawaii is previous and 438mm2. Not that much difference in size and frankly not that much difference in performance seeing that they are separate generations.

Within similar generation. Hawaii 438mm2 = Kepler 561mm2.

Now we will see big Maxwell meet big Fiji. Both new gen and both big. Take a seat and grab the popcorn.

 

[Silverforce11]

@JDG1980

Use the latest chart because GCN has matured a lot since last year.

72 - > 80 = ~11%

71 -> 82 = ~15%

The above is on a Reference R290/X.

 

[AnandThenMan]

If the Titan X is beaten by Fiji XT by even 5%, first, NV will start the world's biggest 6GB-12GB VRAM > 4GB HBM1 viral marketing and review campaign (sites like TechReport and PC Perspective will do "special" tests). At the same time if Fiji uses 290-300W of power, the 40-50W of power differences will be spun like the polar ice caps melting with Fiji XT cards and that Fiji XT would use as much power as an African village.

Then they'll release a fully unlocked 980Ti Black Edition/Metal Edition in the fall or so and while at it also might clock it higher. Don't you worry, NV isn't sweating this one at all. That is before we even get to GameWorks which has proven to swing NV's performance 25-50% at times under the veil of "helping the developers make more advanced graphics."

This is absolutely bang on and the remarkable thing is how easy it is to see predict how it unfolds. Coming from Nvidia sure that is expected but to have the same mantra repeated by review sites that are most certainly blurring the lines between independent reviewer and mouth piece, well it is ... disappointing. BTW I don't think it will matter much where AMD's performance lines up the 4GB is not enough will be front and center anyway.

Probably because they made decisions to release the information on June 16th with PC Gamer months ago. You don't just back off from your business obligations and start changing the rules of the game.

Yes, my point that I worded badly is if AMD had planned for a release that was to take place now they would not be waiting just for the heck of it.

980Ti reference OC - pure jet engine. Everyone who criticized an R9 290/290X reference for years and is running an overclocked 980Ti is a 100% hypocrite.

Yet for some reason people are criticizing AMD for going with a WC setup.

 

[96Firebird]

Maxwell is latest and 398mm2. Hawaii is previous and 438mm2. Not that much difference in size and frankly not that much difference in performance seeing that they are separate generations.

Within similar generation. Hawaii 438mm2 = Kepler 561mm2.

Now we will see big Maxwell meet big Fiji. Both new gen and both big. Take a seat and grab the popcorn.

Is Tonga latest gen? Pretty even with the 960, no? I realize Tonga is a cut down die, but I imagine a full die isn't that much faster than a 960.

Tonga = 366mm², 960 = 228mm².

You can cherry pick anything to fit an argument though...

 

[maddie]

Regarding the R9 390X, if the $499 price leak from Sweclockers is accurate, then the rumors about the 390X being a straight Hawaii rebrand can't be true. Nvidia just dropped the GTX 980 price to $499, so if AMD is going to position the R9 390X at the same price point, then it has to beat the 980 comfortably in performance (at least 10% or so), and have competitive perf/watt.

The rebrand rumors have R9 390X with 1050 MHz core clock, faster RAM (1250->1500), and 8GB of RAM instead of 4GB. Most of this would make a negligible difference on Hawaii; the existing R9 290/X cards aren't bottlenecked by memory bandwidth, and most current games, at any settings that Hawaii can do faster than a slideshow, would see no advantage from 8GB over 4GB. None of this makes sense. Has AMD done stupid things in the past? Absolutely. Would this rebrand, as rumored, be a stupid thing? Very much so.

The only way a $499 price point would make any sense is if the new R9 390X chip (rumored to be called "Grenada") is a substantial improvement over Hawaii, on the same order of magnitude as Nvidia's GF100->GF110 Fermi refresh back in 2010. The original GF100 was hot, loud, power-hungry, and didn't really fulfill all its potential. GF110 not only had much lower leakage (for cooler operation at less wattage) but incorporated some architectural tweaks to improve performance as well. In addition, the GF110-based GTX 580 had more shaders (the GF100-based GTX 480 had to disable some because it just didn't have the TDP headroom).

If Grenada is a completely revamped Hawaii with 3072 shaders on a lower-leakage process, then competitive positioning against the GTX 980 makes more sense. TechPowerUp's charts have the R9 290X at 81% of the GTX 980's performance at 1080p. 2816->3072 shaders would give ~9% performance increase; clock speed bumps to 1150 MHz would give another 10% or so; and updating the architecture to GCN 1.2 could add another 10% or so on top of that. This would give... let's see... 0.81 x 1.09 x 1.10 x 1.10 = ~1.07, so maybe 7% better than GTX 980 at 1080p, and more at higher resolutions where the performance gap between Hawaii and GM204 is smaller. I expect the TDP of R9 390/390X cards to be no more than 250W, and that's for FurMark; most games will run not far above 200W.

Of course, it's still possible that the R9 390/390X are straight rebrands, but if they are, then (1) it would be a very poor decision on AMD's part, and (2) there's no freaking way the R9 390X is going to retail for anywhere near $499.

At this point I'm beginning to wonder if Fiji is a highly optimized gaming-first stopgap part, similar to Nvidia's Maxwell chips, and Grenada is the new professional flagship. We're 95% sure that Fiji, at least at this time, is going to be limited to 4GB of RAM, and if that's a marketing problem in the gaming arena, it's a deal-killer for many professional users. Is AMD really going to release a professional flagship with one-fourth the RAM of the past generation's card? (FirePro W9100 has 16GB of GDDR5.)

If AMD had a lot of funds for R&D I could see this as possible. To spend that money and only sell an elite gaming card in their present situation would be madness.

 

[thehotsung8701A]

Just hope that it will turn out to have been worth it.

The Microcenter in Santa Clara which is about 1 hour away from where I live close down as well :thumbsdown:. I just like to be able to buy everything same day instead of constantly checking to see when things get deliver and my biggest worry is damage packaging.

I hope so as well. I guess we will know as early as June 16. I haven't build a computer in 7 years and so excited to get my hand dirty again!

 

[sandorski]

Seems worth the 2 weeks. Noticed today 980's from multiple Brands being discounted, some significantly. First time I have seen this happen to 9xx cards. The point being that regardless how 3xx turns out, there's going to be a lot of Pricing fluctuation once they are released and leading up to release.

 

[maddie]

Is Tonga latest gen? Pretty even with the 960, no? I realize Tonga is a cut down die, but I imagine a full die isn't that much faster than a 960.

Tonga = 366mm², 960 = 228mm².

You can cherry pick anything to fit an argument though...

Tonga is 366mm2 on TSMC. Have you not heard of Gloflo? All of the old die size calculations need to be revamped.

In any case do you buy your cards by the die size.

 

[LTC8K6]

The Microcenter in Santa Clara which is about 1 hour away from where I live close down as well :thumbsdown:. I just like to be able to buy everything same day instead of constantly checking to see when things get deliver and my biggest worry is damage packaging.

I hope so as well. I guess we will know as early as June 16. I haven't build a computer in 7 years and so excited to get my hand dirty again!

Ha ha!

I just got back into building computers in the last few months after a long absence.

We came back at a great time!

 

[JDG1980]

@JDG1980
Use the latest chart because GCN has matured a lot since last year.

[Charts snipped]

Good catch. This means that if Grenada is a real redesign of Hawaii and not just a rebadge, it could be even more competitive with GTX 980, potentially beating it by 15% or so.

That said, Nvidia could easily drop GTX 980 to $399 (which would put its perf/$ more in line with the GTX 970). If their market share begins to slip, I expect them to do that, so AMD can't get complacent even if Grenada is an engineering success.