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[WCCF] AMD Radeon R9 390X Pictured

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Ask the average gamer(who so few of you guys interact with) what the difference in actual cash is between owning a 300w tdp gpu and a 150w tdp gpu in terms of power consumption and they'll have 0 clue.

I'm very fond of getting in discussions with people who cite differences in power that make it obvious they're talking about multi-GPU with high power parts and say that they play enough hours of games per day that they either don't sleep or don't hold a full time job. What surprises me is how much those people are worried about a few dollars. I guess I'd be too were I spending large sums of money with an unsteady income. :hmm:
 
No matter how good 980Ti/Fiji XT are, they will get run over by a $550 Pascal card by Q3-4/2016.

Given the risks NV is taking and the problems foundries are having with 14/16nm even Q4 2016 is very, very optimistic for such a card to be available or at that price. 14 nm will be more expensive than 28 nm.
 
One can note Nvidia needed 2 years and a 600mm die with Titanx to beat their single card eventually but not the 295x2. Gamers buy by what people tell them to buy as most are clueless what is better for them anyhow. I see a lot more focus groups from nvidia spreading lot of trash which should tell people something about their personality.
Cant trust Nvidia its as simple as that for me.

People buy what they're told to buy

I want to touch on this so hard because I frequent neogaf, bodybuilding, and reddit and on all 3 of these forums when the gtx 980(780ti too when it was vs the r9 290x) was released its been recommended nonstop. Especially on bodybuilding. People who I've recommended on these forums or discussions I watch almost exclusively recommended nvidia. It doesn't matter how much information I post, at the end of the day they are going nvidia. Most times I provide graphs/info they go unread. In fact on other forums I frequent that are more casual, NEVER has a person responded to a graph I posted or posted one of their own in rebuttal. EVER.

People buy what they're told to buy and people don't want to be left out. If the fastest card out was the 390x vs the Titan x and 980ti the 980ti would still be the most recommended card out I see. Nvidia has the brand recognition and when 20 forum whores who are respected high end gamers say "go get nvidia 980 ti I will not give any justification as to why at all!" and then a person says "get the r9 390x,provides reasoning etc." No one is listening to that guy. No one wants to read his reasoning if it's beyond a sentence or two and no one reads charts.

People on this forum are just completely out of touch with the average gamer. I don't know a single gamer that has real knowledge of anything gpu related outside of this forum.
 
Given the risks NV is taking and the problems foundries are having with 14/16nm even Q4 2016 is very, very optimistic for such a card to be available or at that price. 14 nm will be more expensive than 28 nm.

Also, I highly doubt first-gen offerings from a node-shrink will blow away the high end of 28nm now. We've been on 28nm a lot longer than previous generations, and with Maxwell there was an incredible perf/watt improvement which many thought would be impossible without a node shrink.

Compared to early 28nm GPUs (680), mid-range Pascal will blow them away, but it's likely going to be a much more modest increase over the high end of Maxwell. And I don't think we'll see the big chip Pascal until 2017 if NV's release strategy plays out the same way.
 
Only 1 month before AMD's new card launch certain posters start spinning how Fiji PRO and XT are nearly automatic failures if they match or even beat a $550-600 R9 295X2, while never recommending R9 295X2 against 980 for the last 8 months or ever making as much as a peep about how R9 295X2 beat the Titan X for $400+ less for the last 2 months. The hypocrisy is reaching hysterical levels on this one.

Pretty amazing how a card 25-35% faster than a 980 would be an automatic fail now if it doesn't beat the 295X2?

R9 295X2 is 67% faster than a 980 and offers 92% of $1050 980 SLI performance. Are some of you people nuts expecting a 28nm GPU to beat the 295X2 at $549?
http://m.sweclockers.com/recension/20216-nvidia-geforce-gtx-titan-x-i-sli/16

I don't know if I should laugh or be sad at the level of non-sense being posted on AT VG forums lately.

I really don't expect Fiji XT to beat (or even match) the 295x2; most people wouldn't. The new generation flagship almost never beats the existing X2 card, but that's ok. It beats the existing flagship and is cheaper than the dual chip flagship.
IE, 7970 was slower than 6990 but was $550 vs $700.
The 6970 was slower than the 5970 but was $370 vs $470.

Fiji XT coming in at hundreds more than the 295X2 while being (likely) slower would be a complete change from how new GPUs are normally introduced. Especially considering that you're moving from 8GB of GDDR5 to 4GB of HBM, 2x438mm^2 to a single 600mm^2.

Even not comparing a dual GPU card, a 7970 was ~30% faster than a 6970 at launch, and 62% ($550 vs $340) more expensive, and reaction was pretty muted to that generation at launch (though GCN has since been vindicated). If Fiji XT actually ships at $850 that will be 165% ($850 vs $320) more than an excellent aftermarket OCed card like the Tri-X 290X OC. If the ChipHell leak is correct and Fiji is as good as it looks (40% faster than stock 290X at 1600p, 50% faster at 4k).

An $850 price is going to limit the market for this to a tiny subset of gamers. I hope it's just a rumour and AMD does come in closer to the previous generation of cards. It would be pretty hard to justify spending $850 on a FijiXT otherwise when you throw down another $50 and buy a 295X2 and a Tri-X 290X for triple-CF. 😛
 
Given the risks NV is taking and the problems foundries are having with 14/16nm even Q4 2016 is very, very optimistic for such a card to be available or at that price. 14 nm will be more expensive than 28 nm.

Compared to early 28nm GPUs (680), mid-range Pascal will blow them away, but it's likely going to be a much more modest increase over the high end of Maxwell. And I don't think we'll see the big chip Pascal until 2017 if NV's release strategy plays out the same way.

This is going to be a long post of mine but you guys should read it because it seems both of you are underestimating the types of jumps NV has been making every generation. NV does not need a Big Pascal to beat GM200. During every single generation in the last 15 years, NV's next generation mid-range chip has beaten the last generation's flagship. Pay particular attention to the generational improvement from Mid-range to next gen Mid-range (560/560Ti ->670/680 and GTX670/680 to GTX970/980).

Look at the last 2 generations:

Fermi to Kepler = New node + new architecture
last gen mid-range $249 GTX560Ti = 49%
last gen flagship $499 GTX580 = 73%

Next gen mid-range $399 GTX670 =88%
Next gen upper mid-range $499 GTX680 = 94%

GTX670 alone was faster than a 580 and it beat 560Ti by 65%, but 670 is really a successor to the GTX560, not 560Ti!

GTX680 is really the true successor to the 560Ti and it ended up 92% faster than a GTX560Ti. This actually makes sense as the GTX580 successor, GTX780Ti, was 2X faster. So moving from Fermi to Maxwell was a 90-100% increase in performance. 680 had no trouble at all outperforming the 580 and did so using less power and having more advanced features.
perfrel_2560.gif


Kepler to Maxwell = new architecture, same node

I am going to use 1440P resolution instead of 4K as that would penalize 670/680 cards too much due to lack of VRAM.

last gen mid-range $399 GTX670 = 39%
last gen upper mid-range $499 GTX680 = 43%
last gen flagship $699 GTX780Ti = 69%

new gen mid-range $329 GTX970 = 65%
new gen upper mid-range $549 GTX980 = 76%

GTX970 was 67% faster than a GTX670
GTX980 was 77% faster than a GTX680
Once again GTX980 had no trouble outperforming the 780Ti, last gen's flagship, while using way less power and having more features.
perfrel_2560.gif


Now we are at Pascal = 14nm/16nm node + HBM2 (600GB/sec-1TB/sec+ memory bandwidth) + new architecture. This generation should be a lot closer to the jump we've seen from Fermi to Kepler rather than Kepler to Maxwell because NV is going to increase memory bandwidth 2.5-3X and jump to a new node! Essentially we should be looking at one of the major inflection points in GPU performance because memory bandwidth bottleneck will be lifted for many products.

GTX970's successor should be at least 60% faster, same for GTX980's successor. I am being conservative as I expect the gap to be 75-100% in 8-9 months post Pascal launch because NV will probably shift driver focus to Pascal. 😀

Where does that get us for GM204 successors?

GTX970 x 1.6 = 65% x 1.6 = 104% (already faster than the Titan X)
GTX980 x 1.6 =76% x 1.6 = 122% (easily faster than the Titan X)

Unless NV intentionally splits the generation into 3 parts and neuters the first wave of 14nm/16nm parts, I fully expect GTX970 successor to tie the Titan X or even beat it and 980's successor to easily beat the Titan X/Fiji XT.

Therefore, I do not understand why people are downplaying the 14nm/16nm HBM2 generation and discussing how the Big Pascal won't even show up until 2017. Next gen mid-range Pascal cards should follow the footsteps of GTX670/680 and 970/980 in matching or beating last gen flagship cards, while using less power and having more features, and I expect 8GB HBM2 for them too. These next gen mid-range cards should come in at $400-600. A lot of gamers now see that NV is doing its own Tick-Tock strategy where they release next gen mid-range as "flagships" and then follow up with the real large die flagship cards. I don't see NV releasing a 980 successor at $699 unless it soundly beats the Titan X by 30-40%.

That's why I maintain that this generation is a stop-gap one and anyone who intends to future-proof themselves with Fiji XT or GM200 6GB for 4K gaming is just going against the historical trends of GPU development over the last 15 years, if not more.
 
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We can use a bit of common sense to figure out what to expect from the refresh/rebrand.
http://wccftech.com/amd-a10-7870k-black-edition-godavari-flagship-retail-150/

If the Godavari leak is accurate, then we can probably do some extrapolation of the overall sea island gpu lineup. Godavari igpu is clocked 19% higher than Kaveri. Since the overall cpu is still within a 95 watt power envelope, I would expect the 19% higher clocked igpu in Godavari to fall within the same power consumption as Kaveri. It is then reasonable to say that the refresh/rebrand should be capable of performing close to 20% faster than current generation under the same power envelope.
 

The number 1 argument is missing in the article:

Amd have for 2015 committed to a large chunk of wafer capacity at gf - as part of the wsa agreement. Looking at the current portfolio that is dead in the water, without most of it comming from gpu in 2015, the agreement can not be fullfilled imo.
Earlier amd have just not fullfilled the wsa in such a case. I think the new management is far more realistic and technical competent. Only the gpu can therefore fullfill that agreement. That is unless carrizo is not a blast and imo the 15-25 w tdp laptop market for even a very good apu is still limited for amd.
 
Why are there people that claim that most mid and low end gamers care about wattage/efficiency?

You know what the biggest gaming demographic is? CASUAL. The type of people that gets scared if you just say the words Vram, shader count or tmus.

The vast majority of GPU buyers have no clue what they buy..many even buy based on things like Vram...and end up with a 750 with 4GB because whoa cheap, much Vram, very powerful.

Rebrands also sell to that demographic...because they don't even know what a rebrand is.

Just because people on hardware forums are knowledgeable does not mean that this reflects on the majority. In my circle of friends I'm the only one that is called when there is anything PC related...and trust me, energy efficiency is the last they ask about.

Its all about the marketing..and that's where AMD lacks..to many of my friends AMD doesn't even exist..and it doesn't help that almost all GPUs in storefronts are Nvidia.
 
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AMD has specifically said they will not use SOI after 32nm, next node will be 14/16nm FF.

For CPUs, yes. But does this apply to GPUs as well? 22nm SOI can handle a large die size and support higher clocks (which would help Fiji take advantage of HBM). The down side is that 22nm SOI wouldn't do Fiji an favors vis-a-vis power consumption.

Since IBM has already funded the 22nm SOI development, there shouldn't be any development surcharge from GF (since AMD definitely is no longer paying extra for specific specialized nodes).

SOI would also help explain the high price of Fiji XT (in addition to HBM).

I'm not saying that AMD has gone with 22 nm SOI - only that there are some advantages that could prove to be disruptive in the high-end GPU market and help AMD garner more share of this high ASP product segment. It could also provide a better launch platform into professional graphics if, in six months of so, AMD was able to engineer a GFX card with at least 8 GB of RAM.
 
People buy what they're told to buy

I want to touch on this so hard because I frequent neogaf, bodybuilding, and reddit and on all 3 of these forums when the gtx 980(780ti too when it was vs the r9 290x) was released its been recommended nonstop. Especially on bodybuilding. People who I've recommended on these forums or discussions I watch almost exclusively recommended nvidia. It doesn't matter how much information I post, at the end of the day they are going nvidia. Most times I provide graphs/info they go unread. In fact on other forums I frequent that are more casual, NEVER has a person responded to a graph I posted or posted one of their own in rebuttal. EVER.

People buy what they're told to buy and people don't want to be left out. If the fastest card out was the 390x vs the Titan x and 980ti the 980ti would still be the most recommended card out I see. Nvidia has the brand recognition and when 20 forum whores who are respected high end gamers say "go get nvidia 980 ti I will not give any justification as to why at all!" and then a person says "get the r9 390x,provides reasoning etc." No one is listening to that guy. No one wants to read his reasoning if it's beyond a sentence or two and no one reads charts.

People on this forum are just completely out of touch with the average gamer. I don't know a single gamer that has real knowledge of anything gpu related outside of this forum.

Even here, there's a certain moderator who ONLY censors pro-amd stuff and never touches nVidia posters. I went back through his post history and it was 100% AMD censored. Incredible. I wish I knew who to complain to. This forum is one of the premier video card forums out there, you BETTER believe it gets funding from specific companies..

If you have an issue with moderation you are asked to post about it in Moderator Discussions.
What you have posted here is a callout and you have been around long enough to know it is not allowed.
administrator allisolm
 
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Even here, there's a certain moderator who ONLY censors pro-amd stuff and never touches nVidia posters. I went back through his post history and it was 100% AMD censored. Incredible. I wish I knew who to complain to. This forum is one of the premier video card forums out there, you BETTER believe it gets funding from specific companies..

Go to moderation discussions and post your complaint. Good luck... you will need lots to succeed.
 
I think the rumors are getting all mixed up.

It's looking like the "390x" will be a tweaked 290x with 8gb of GDDR5. The Fiji card would then be called something else and have 4gb of HBM.

What you said makes sense. Perhaps they will give Fiji a premium name like Zeus or 390 XTX 🙂
 
Even here, there's a certain moderator who ONLY censors pro-amd stuff and never touches nVidia posters. I went back through his post history and it was 100% AMD censored. Incredible. I wish I knew who to complain to. This forum is one of the premier video card forums out there, you BETTER believe it gets funding from specific companies..

Even if there somehow some exist bias within the moderators it's really up to the individuals to not engage in some obvious or not so obvious bait material and steer subjects off topic or resorting to personal attacks. People just need to learn how to grow up and take accountability for their own action. There are some clever trolls who enjoys baiting fanboys, just don't be immature about it by reacting to them. Ignore the master baiters and stay out of trouble. It's not that hard.
 
Even if there somehow some exist bias within the moderators it's really up to the individuals to not engage in some obvious or not so obvious bait material and steer subjects off topic or resorting to personal attacks. People just need to learn how to grow up and take accountability for their own action. There are some clever trolls who enjoys baiting fanboys, just don't be immature about it by reacting to them. Ignore the master baiters and stay out of trouble. It's not that hard.

Very well said
 
We can use a bit of common sense to figure out what to expect from the refresh/rebrand.
http://wccftech.com/amd-a10-7870k-black-edition-godavari-flagship-retail-150/

If the Godavari leak is accurate, then we can probably do some extrapolation of the overall sea island gpu lineup. Godavari igpu is clocked 19% higher than Kaveri. Since the overall cpu is still within a 95 watt power envelope, I would expect the 19% higher clocked igpu in Godavari to fall within the same power consumption as Kaveri. It is then reasonable to say that the refresh/rebrand should be capable of performing close to 20% faster than current generation under the same power envelope.

Except the actual power difference will be far lower as the increased clocks do little to increase either power consumption or performance as the chip is already completely bandwidth limited under most senarios.
 
It is pretty much confirmed that

AMD next gen line up
FIJI XT and FIJI Pro

Nvidia line up
GTX 960,970,980,980 Ti and GTX Titan that a massive difference between both companies.


AMD wont be winning against GTX 970 or GTX 980 in terms of effenicy and performance pet watt.
http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-r9-3...radeon-r9-380-tonga-r9-370-pitcairn-rebrands/

That article you linked is a total non sequitur. Note I am not saying it's 100% definitively wrong; I'm saying that the conclusion does not follow in any way from the evidence cited. The article seems to be arguing that several ASUS model numbers (which are probably genuine) somehow prove the previous rumors that everything except Fiji will be an unmodified rebrand. But why? All the model numbers indicate is the designations of the cards, and how much VRAM they contain. Any (or all) could be new GPUs. The only things saying otherwise are... more rumors.

My best guess at this point (and it is simply an educated guess with no inside info) is that there will be two fully new GPUs: Fiji at the top end, and a small GCN 1.2 GPU to replace Pitcairn and Bonaire (Trinidad or Tobago). Grenada will be Hawaii ported to GloFo for higher clocks at lower power consumption, and perhaps with the UVD block updated, but will still be mostly the same chip with GCN 1.1 architecture, 2816 shaders, 512-bit bus, etc. These cards will have a TDP of roughly 250W. Antigua will be Tonga ported to GloFo with the UVD block maybe updated (HEVC, HDMI 2.0, etc.) and everything else the same, and will have a TDP of about 150W for the cut-down card and perhaps 175W for the full version. Both cards will have higher clocks than the current series.

This would not be optimal, but it also wouldn't be as blatantly ridiculous and uncompetitive as rebadging everything in the 200 series with no silicon changes at all. Given AMD's apparently very limited budget, there clearly wasn't room for a whole new GCN 1.2 lineup, although that should have happened six months ago. I'm still trying to process the fact that Apple actually put a three-year-old GCN 1.0 part in the flagship MacBook Pro. I can sort of understand why AMD doesn't want to make a Cape Verde replacement (chips this low-end aren't very profitable, especially with FinFET coming in 18 months or so, and AMD wants to eventually replace these with APUs anyway). But even if Apple absolutely had to go AMD for some reason, why not cut-down Bonaire? That's at least GCN 1.1 and would have made a bit more sense.
 
Threadjack:RussianSensation - tried PM'ing, but it says your quota is over

im headed back to DXB tomorrow. its been years since i visited the computer scene there. I gave my dad my PC (kept the GPU & sound card), but it needs the following:

a) someone to help it boot up - i did something during tinkering that ruined it at the MBR level. do you recommend any shop that is reliable & affordable?

b) what & where do you recommend i shop for a GPU, SSD, HDD & monitor (1080p)? He is re purposing it primarily for photoshop, lightroom & some audio stuff. It's a Z68 Extreme4 asrock motherboard, i7-2600k CPU.

Thanks!
 
I really don't expect Fiji XT to beat (or even match) the 295x2; most people wouldn't. The new generation flagship almost never beats the existing X2 card, but that's ok. It beats the existing flagship and is cheaper than the dual chip flagship.
IE, 7970 was slower than 6990 but was $550 vs $700.
The 6970 was slower than the 5970 but was $370 vs $470.

I got my HD4890 for $195 months before 5870 came out. That means I could have had 5870 crushing performance in HD4890 CF for $390.

I got 3 of my GTX470s for $210 a pop, months before 580 launched. That means 2 of those crushed a 480 and 3 of those annihilated a single 580 for just $630.

I got my HD6950 for $230, and it unlocked into a 6970. That means I could have had HD7970 crushing performance in HD6950 @ 6970 speeds for $460.

All of these cards were bought new, many months before the next generation came out.

It's extremely rare for new cards to offer superior price/performance to older outdated cards on fire sale like the R9 295X2 is right now. Do you honestly believe AMD will have a 300 series card priced at $299 that's 50% faster than an after-market R9 290? One could have bought a $199 Sapphire Tri-X 290 / PowerColor PCS+ R9 290 around Black Friday of last year. That's how this industry works. The entire R9 200 series has a tarnished brand image just like GTX470/480 did. That's why some gamers on AT were able to pick up an EVGA GTX480 for $175-225 on Newegg when GTX570 was selling for $350 and GTX580 was going for $500. True story.

Remember when HD7970Ghz came out but months later AIBs released 1.0Ghz clocked cards that cost $75-100 less, but they just didn't call them officially HD7970Ghz. Usually the cream of the crop flagships offer bad value for the money. That included 680 vs. 670 and 7970 vs. 7950, and 5870 vs. 5850 and 6970 vs. 6950. I don't see why Fiji XT would be different, especially now that R9 200 is going on fire sale and one can readily find an R9 290X for $280. You can't make a valid comparison though because the consumer has voted. The consumer thinks GTX980 is worth $500-550 and R9 290X is only worth $280. Can't really expect a $549 card, whether it's 980Ti or Fiji XT, to be 2X faster than an R9 290X either.

An $850 price is going to limit the market for this to a tiny subset of gamers. I hope it's just a rumour and AMD does come in closer to the previous generation of cards. It would be pretty hard to justify spending $850 on a FijiXT otherwise when you throw down another $50 and buy a 295X2 and a Tri-X 290X for triple-CF. 😛

I don't disagree and I am not promoting the $850 rumour. I wouldn't recommend anyone buy a single chip 28nm card for $850 come June 2015. The sad part is at least AMD is releasing the fully unlocked Fiji by all indications. NV, otoh, is milking GM200 for all its worth and is releasing a gimped 980Ti, which is likely to be followed-up by a fully unlocked 980Ti version sometime in the future. 😛
 
Threadjack:RussianSensation - tried PM'ing, but it says your quota is over

im headed back to DXB tomorrow. its been years since i visited the computer scene there. I gave my dad my PC (kept the GPU & sound card), but it needs the following:

a) someone to help it boot up - i did something during tinkering that ruined it at the MBR level. do you recommend any shop that is reliable & affordable?

OK, I haven't actually bought any PC parts in Dubai/UAE but I will try to help you out. *I am actually not in Dubai right now but haven't changed my sig*.

For computer shop help, I found these directions for you:

"Smaller computer shops in various places like Bur Dubai , Karama, Naif market, and Dragon Mart (Warsan area next to int'l city). But for the main distributors (business suppliers) they are located at JAFZA and those other places get their stock from them.

If you are not sure just take metro to Al Fahidi stn. (Khalid Bin Al Waleed road) which is just a few steps away from Al Ain center, Khaleej center , and the infamous York hotel where Sigbert Dhas is obsessed with 🙂.
You can browse around Al Ain ctr. (also called Computer Plaza), and across from it Khaleej ctr. on Mezzanine floor behind Etisalat offices there. Also some mini shops to the right side of Du office & to the back side of the mall.

Be sure to haggle when you ask for price , as I know from experience those guys jack up the price when they see Arab or Westerners asking how much "

Computer Plaza Al Ain Center
Office# 117, Alain Center, Al Mankhool Road
+971 4 352 6663
United Arab Emirates
^ This is near Al Fahidi Metro Station 2

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20140411001201AADN9DY

b) what & where do you recommend i shop for a GPU, SSD, HDD & monitor (1080p)? He is re purposing it primarily for photoshop, lightroom & some audio stuff. It's a Z68 Extreme4 asrock motherboard, i7-2600k CPU.

Thanks!

Check prices online to compare. Some of these sites allow you to ship to the store directly, and you can drive from Dubai or if you have more time, just have it shipped.

1)
http://uae.dtcae.com/
Location: Sharjah, King Faisal st.

2)
http://uber.ae/
1308 Grosvenor House, Commercial Tower, Sheikh Zayed Road, Dubai, UAE
info@uber.ae
+971 (4) 358-8506 (Sales)
+971 (4) 358-8507 (Support)

This store is more geared towards gamers and overclockers.

3)
http://gear-up.me/

Gear-Up Delivery Cycle

Currently Gear-Up.me ships your orders twice a week - Wednesday and Sunday.

In order to take advantage of it please place your order:
* no later than Monday 5pm for Wednesday Shipping
* no later than Thursday 5pm for Sunday Shipping

UAE shipments will be delivered next day once shipped.

4) This is more for general electronics
http://www.gridzdirect.com/

Free Delivery in UAE for Orders Above AED 999

Alternatively there are several local websites selling computer stuff like souq, alshop, jadopado, ecart, tejuri, techsouq , spendwisor, plus some classified sites like dubizzle & gnads4u (all .com).

Hope this gets you started!

BTW, if you ever need an emergency help in finding hardware parts in a foreign country, bookmark this page!

Guide for International Users With Links To Part Stores

***
 
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