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[WCCF] AMD Radeon R9 390X Pictured

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Even the hardware shops from taobao seems to agree with me and the recent rumors about Fiji and 980 Ti price price 😉
(Yes I know, they seem pretty clueless regarding 390X specs lol. Could be a way to avoid NDA troubles)



GTX Titan X - 8999CNY
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-10172450940.36.iLWvSk&id=44296531008

R9 390X - 7999CNY
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.14.m7HMuW&id=45472801468&ns=1&abbucket=17#detail
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.4.mT7Hbw&id=36935228083&ns=1&abbucket=17#detail

GTX 980 Ti - 6999CNY
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.4.IstgQW&id=44869761305&ns=1&abbucket=17#detail



I feel pretty confident that we will see:
GTX Titan X - $999
Fiji XT - $850 ish
GTX 980 Ti: $750 ish
 
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Cloudfire777 said:
78000INR = $1200

Hawaii XT aka R9 290X had a value of 40000INR ($629) when it was shipped before it was announced.

So thats a good indication that Fiji XT will be a costly card, no doubt about that. I feel $850 seems very plausible, considering value and that they will market it as premium as Titan cards from Nvidia
Click to expand...

Perhaps that is the WCE, Titan-class variant? With an integrated AIO CLC and perhaps a boost in specs, that could command a $200-250 premium over the release.

If that is released anywhere near $1200, AMD will be shooting themselves in the foot. But a premium card at $850, with a standard 390X that is a fully-enabled Fiji XT at $600-650, that is a respectable "standard flagship" price in this current environment.
 
destrekor said:
Perhaps that is the WCE, Titan-class variant? With an integrated AIO CLC and perhaps a boost in specs, that could command a $200-250 premium over the release.

If that is released anywhere near $1200, AMD will be shooting themselves in the foot. But a premium card at $850, with a standard 390X that is a fully-enabled Fiji XT at $600-650, that is a respectable "standard flagship" price in this current environment.
Click to expand...

Shouldnt all Fiji XT only be water cooled? Perhaps the cut down Fiji Pro is the only variant with air cooling?
Yeah for what you are getting: HBM and water cooling and metal design, and 10% better performance than 980Ti (looking at the leaked tests of both), it could be worth the extra $100 over 980 Ti. I agree with you and AMD here.

But its a change in direction from AMD. Both in sheer silicon size and in premium price over previous flagships. But I don`t think they have much choice regarding profitability, and making it seem just as premium as Titan X (low price would maybe put off people) and the cost of the manufacture of the card.
I understand that AMD fans seems ripped off since its a new direction, but I`m getting 980Ti or Fiji XT no matter what anyway. I`m leaning toward Fiji XT 🙂
 
Cloudfire777 said:
78000INR = $1200

Hawaii XT aka R9 290X had a value of 40000INR ($629) when it was shipped before it was announced.

So thats a good indication that Fiji XT will be a costly card, no doubt about that. I feel $850 seems very plausible, considering value and that they will market it as premium as Titan cards from Nvidia
Click to expand...

so no useful information there then. Have no problem with a "fiji xt" that beast the 295x2. My guess is it will be well overclocked over the 390x
 
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destrekor said:
Perhaps that is the WCE, Titan-class variant? With an integrated AIO CLC and perhaps a boost in specs, that could command a $200-250 premium over the release.

If that is released anywhere near $1200, AMD will be shooting themselves in the foot. But a premium card at $850, with a standard 390X that is a fully-enabled Fiji XT at $600-650, that is a respectable "standard flagship" price in this current environment.
Click to expand...

Do you notice the stated memory capacity? Think its accurate?
 
Cloudfire777 said:
But I don`t think they have much choice regarding profitability, and making it seem just as premium as Titan X (low price would maybe put off people) and the cost of the manufacture of the card.
I understand that AMD fans seems ripped off since its a new direction, but I`m getting 980Ti or Fiji XT no matter what anyway. I`m leaning toward Fiji XT 🙂
Click to expand...

Disregarding the cost of manufacturing for now, it definitely is a factor. I do believe they should charge what the market will bear. I just don't think they can go up against the Titan right now. Sure, by all means slowly creep up the price to test that market.

Premium does not always have to mean expensive or excessive, which is how I view the Titan brand. It could mean smarter. Either scenario they go with will heavily depend on their marketing efforts.

If they(AMD) feel their push for perf per dollar wasn't working. Push for value per dollar. Value being equal to performance, performance over time, power, build quality, features and support, whatever.

Titans, to me always say BIG architecture. BIG performance (FP32), BIG memory, BIG money, and now BIG cashgrab. And in light of the recent Kepler tanking performances, Maxwells half precision, how many original Titan owners who bought into these promises will buy Titans again? If they were smart, none.

FijiXT could be, BEST performance, FORWARD architecture, FORWARD memory, FORWARD features, FORWARD support, driving the industry FORWARD that lasts.



Edit: I know "support" will come into question.

Again, this is something AMD has to really work on and bring light to the consumer. From recent events, and discussions. Support would mean capitalizing on bringing new technology to the industry.

We made Mantle. The baseline for DX12, Vulkan, and Metal. Game developers can not wait to unleash this. You sure as hell better believe we'll be the best to support it.

We made HBM. The revolutionary memory that is going to change the industry. Our technical expertise here will go unrivaled.

We're Open. We don't just believe in support, we believe in moving forward. Our commitment to developers mean we help them improve their entire engines, not just our drivers. Our open technologies mean that everyone can benefit.

Our drivers are always ready.


We are the consoles. Which is the lead platform for many games developers. Our architecture is battle hardened. (PCMaster race withholding).


Yeah lots of marketing speak, stretching the truth, but... that's what they have to do in my opinion. AMDs recent Slander campaigns using the competitor as your main focus for comparison, is still in a sense promoting your competitor instead of yourself. It comes off as cheap.
 
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Honestly I can't remember the last time the hype was so enormous for a product! I think it's great and does a lot to revitalize GPU sales. But yeah I'm about done waiting, I am going g to be SO excited to grab a coffee and pour over Anandtechs in depth review when it hits
 
jackstar7 said:
Why? What do you know about it that would require water?
Click to expand...
The only leaks I`ve seen so far have been about Fiji/390X being water cooled. The pictures of the card have only been of a water cooled edition and the benches have only been of one version.

I think I may have misread this slide earlier. It says 390X WCE which I think is the only version of that card. It also says "Next iteration of the highly successful GCN Design" and under it says "up to 4096 stream processors". When looking at it now I think they speak about Fiji in general, 390X being 4096 and water cooled while other fiji cards have less than 4096 and not water cooling.

I could be wrong though.

Stormflux said:
Disregarding the cost of manufacturing for now, it definitely is a factor. I do believe they should charge what the market will bear. I just don't think they can go up against the Titan right now. Sure, by all means slowly creep up the price to test that market.

Premium does not always have to mean expensive or excessive, which is how I view the Titan brand. It could mean smarter. Either scenario they go with will heavily depend on their marketing efforts.

If they(AMD) feel their push for perf per dollar wasn't working. Push for value per dollar. Value being equal to performance, performance over time, power, build quality, features and support, whatever.

Titans, to me always say BIG architecture. BIG performance (FP32), BIG memory, BIG money, and now BIG cashgrab. And in light of the recent Kepler tanking performances, Maxwells half precision, how many original Titan owners who bought into these promises will buy Titans again? If they were smart, none.

FijiXT could be, BEST performance, FORWARD architecture, FORWARD memory, FORWARD features, FORWARD support, driving the industry FORWARD that lasts.
Click to expand...
I bet Fiji XT will be way better than Titan X is FP64 double precision. Single precision it might lose to Maxwell. OpenCL, Im not sure. Maxwell is really good there as well.

I`m sure we will see some good marketing for the Fiji cards. They better, because 6GB/12GB GM200 cards will be boasted as better because of VRAM capacity. And I think majority will pick Nvidia cards over AMD if they are priced better/same.

It will come down to marketing and the product announcements. Oh god, I hope they have learned from previous launches. Which have been absolutely horrible. They need a good execution and reviews that is clear about HBM and performance.

Nvidia have the advantage that the 980Ti launch this week (28th I`ve heard) so that will boost their sales for sure. On the other hand AMD have the option to change price for Fiji cards if 980Ti launch with a smashing price.

It must be horrible watching the competitor launch a similar competing product almost a month before they get to launch theirs. Talking about the rumored June 24th launch for Fiji XT...
 
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Cloudfire777 said:
The only leaks I`ve seen so far have been about Fiji/390X being water cooled. The pictures of the card have only been of a water cooled edition and the benches have only been of one version.

..
Click to expand...

That makes sense of course. If AMD is going for premium pricing and the halo effect, they don't want to advertise that Fiji PRO is the better buy in the line-up. They will want to talk about their best card, naturally, and try to market themselves as having class leading graphics against 980Ti/Titan X (let's hope Fiji XT doesn't actually flop in performance). AMD isn't going to come out and say "We know our flagship cards are mostly for e-peen benchmarking, but for gaming you should save $200-300 and just buy our high-end x50 series (PRO series) instead since it's 93-95% as fast as our flagships once both overclocked - 5850, 6950, 7950, R9 290 all stayed true to this formula! :awe:

If AMD is going to raise prices above $549, they would want to better differentiate Fiji XT from PRO because imo R9 290X = $150 waste of $ vs. the 290. :biggrin: Adding AIO CLC, higher factory clocks, smaller PCB, and all of a sudden the Fiji XT starts to feel more premium. AIO CLC would allow AMD to clock the Fiji XT card higher (say 1050mhz vs. 950mhz for the Fiji PRO). However, what's AMD going to do with all the failed 4096 die? They will have no choice but to make a 3500-3800 shader Fiji PRO with HBM. The question is how much cut down will it be? 3584 shaders or 3840 shaders?

If Fiji PRO is a factory "underclocked" 950mhz 3840 shader card with 512GB/sec HBM, priced at $499-549, that could become the sleeper high-end card this summer. I mean all it needs to do is beat 980 by 15-17% and that's 87-89% of the Titan X's performance X for nearly half the price.

I am pretty shocked that 3.5 years since HD7970 launched, we still do not have a card at $549 that's 2X faster. That's disappointing.

perfrel_3840.gif
 
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Cloudfire777 said:
Yeah, doesnt look like we get $500 graphic cards this time around.

But lets be honest here. We are still at 28nm. Both Fiji and GM200 extend way beyond whats considered a bargain for AMD/Nvidia to manufacture too considering the 600mm2 size and all. We want faster GPUs, TSMC is unable to manufacture them in 20nm like they should have, Nvidia and AMD try to fill in the demands, and have to price them accordingly. That GTX 980Ti may cost $750-800 while AMD may be slightly more expensive this time around is because they too are building a behemoth of a die for the Fiji, not just the cores themselves but also a brand new more expensive type of HBM which also need to go inside the GPU package/silicon which cost money to make.
AND on top of that they had Cooler Master make a water cooled solution for the Fiji. All in all, its not a bad bargian imo. Its just that we have been used to very low prices like the 295X2 selling for $600 that features two GPU chips as well as water cooling. That price shouldnt have much foothold in reality, Im sure AMD priced it that low to keep Titan X sales atleast a little at bay. I hardly think there are much profit from those sales.

The people looking for the best performance/ratio should all wait til 2016 where we get new architecture from both and a new node. That should normalize the price again. Even HBM should be cheaper to manufacture at that point due to more companies using it for other products as well and HBM yields are increasingly better.

Short summary:
Want the best right now and have the money, go get TitanX/980Ti and Fiji XT, although people should wait for water cooled versions of the GM200 cards imo.
A little short on money? Wait til 2016 and get R9 400 series and Pascal. Go down in graphic settings on your current cards and look ahead and try not to cry too much from not running the highest settings 😛

I don`t know what to expect from Fiji Pro to be honest. Does it have water cooling as well? HBM? Build quality? Way too many unknowns at this point
Click to expand...

Wait! Why is manufacturing on an old process making it more expensive? I'll grant that HBM might make it cost more. It's latest cutting edge tech. But 28nm has to be cheaper now than before.

Edit: Why wait? Buy latest and greatest now and turn settings down. 😀
 
Cloudfire777 said:
And I think majority will pick Nvidia cards over AMD if they are priced better/same.
Click to expand...

Random polls on the Internet already favour 980Ti by nearly 50% (35% vs. 24%) without even seeing the price, performance or price/performance of a 390X. See, NV marketing has already won the war before Fiji XT even launched!

Per NCIX:
https://strawpoll.me/4428207/r

Pricing Fiji XT at $849 right now (stop-gap generation, lack of high quality 1440p/4K FreeSync monitors) is going to be a fail of a strategy. You can have a premium product that is faster but costs less; it's about how you market it. AMD needs to specifically send a message why AIO CLC is superior to the Titan X's/980Ti's cooler in both noise levels and temperatures. That's how you win the marketing game. Instead of AIO CLC coming off as a "desperate" attempt to water-cool a 300W card, AMD can turn it into a next generation cooling tech making it to the high-end GPU market that allows miniITX 300W cards that run cooler and quieter than a traditional air cooled 10-11" 250W TDP blower card. In CF setups, 500-600W of heat would be exhausted out of the case. If AMD makes an actual video with heat gun temperature/noise measurements to show that AIO CLC CF is superior to Titan X SLI in a mid-tower, that would be amazing marketing. All of a sudden, the Titan X/980Ti's coolers are painted as using outdated cooling tech, that is no longer good enough for a premium flagship product. They need to do the same thing with HBM1 vs. GDDR5.

AMD needs to market overclocking and having the dual-bios switch more aggressively. While NV is blocking overclocking, AMD needs to do the opposite and publicly release a database of Fiji XT bioses that can be downloaded and modded easily by enthusiasts and flashed to the 2nd BIOS without any fear of bricking the card. AMD needs to promote that their flagship cards are better built for enthusiasts to take advantage of overclocking/overvolting with dual BIOSes and factory included AIO CLC. Working with all AIBs to provided minimum 3-year warranties and for their "Titan" equivalent brand 5-year warranties would be a good start to reinforce that their products are of high build quality. Often you read how people think NV builds higher quality reference cards. These myths need to be dispelled and nothing dispells them more than AIBs having longer warranties which reinforces their belief the product is high quality. All of a sudden, it's NV locking overclocking and hurting PC enthusiasts vs. AMD that is promoting overclocking and providing dual bios flashing capabilities! 5-year warranty would be a good differentiation and a peace of mind for gamers who might be reluctant to embrace AIO CLC for flagship 300W cards costing $700+ due to the fear of failed water pumps.

Essentially, what AMD needs to do is capitalize on all the marketing weaknesses of NV and turn them into strengths for their product launch. As far as releasing air cooled cards, AMD should send only after-market factory pre-overclocked R9 300 cards, much the same way NV did with GTX960 and 970 reviews! These small steps will matter a lot more than pricing the card at $849 and just calling it premium....You need to focus on all of your product's strengths to try to sell the consumer WHY the product is actually worth the high price, rather than use the high price as justification why the product is premium. You can cripple an NV card and just add $1K price tag to it, and it will sell, but gamers who buy AMD cards won't fall for such marketing BS tactics.
 
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Cloudfire777 said:
The only leaks I`ve seen so far have been about Fiji/390X being water cooled. The pictures of the card have only been of a water cooled edition and the benches have only been of one version.

I think I may have misread this slide earlier. It says 390X WCE which I think is the only version of that card. It also says "Next iteration of the highly successful GCN Design" and under it says "up to 4096 stream processors". When looking at it now I think they speak about Fiji in general, 390X being 4096 and water cooled while other fiji cards have less than 4096 and not water cooling.

I could be wrong though.

I bet Fiji XT will be way better than Titan X is FP64 double precision. Single precision it might lose to Maxwell. OpenCL, Im not sure. Maxwell is really good there as well.

I`m sure we will see some good marketing for the Fiji cards. They better, because 6GB/12GB GM200 cards will be boasted as better because of VRAM capacity. And I think majority will pick Nvidia cards over AMD if they are priced better/same.

It will come down to marketing and the product announcements. Oh god, I hope they have learned from previous launches. Which have been absolutely horrible. They need a good execution and reviews that is clear about HBM and performance.

Nvidia have the advantage that the 980Ti launch this week (28th I`ve heard) so that will boost their sales for sure. On the other hand AMD have the option to change price for Fiji cards if 980Ti launch with a smashing price.

It must be horrible watching the competitor launch a similar competing product almost a month before they get to launch theirs. Talking about the rumored June 24th launch for Fiji XT...
Click to expand...

Was that intentional? 😀
 
if Hawaii gets rebranded with higher clocks, 8GB VRAM, and lower power consumption and gets priced at let's say $350 for 290X and R9 290 for $300

I still don't see people that are predisposed to Nvidia being convinced enough to go AMD at that price range instead of buying a GTX 970

Hawaii isn't strong enough to make use of the 8GB VRAM and if AMD prices higher than $350 / $300 then that will just provide greater motivation to go with a GTX 970
 
goa604 said:
iCR6y8p.png

RyHrbSe.png
Click to expand...

What's the source of this leak?

8GB HBM would catch everyone off-guard. Price too good to be true given recent rumors. I doubt it would be that cheap with 8gb HBM. If it is, they can have my money!

The 300W TDP is expected given its power use is ~R290X (or a bit less based on earliest ChipHell leaks) with massively increased performance. It's within the power consumption range of Titan X to be honest, 37W delta when its 240-250W isn't a big deal, especially if it comes with higher performance. Think about that, AMD may match Maxwell on perf/w! A feat that many claimed was well beyond the broke company to deliver due to falling R&D investment! 😵
 
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