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Wave gun at car, get shot

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Numenorean said:
Wrong. The latter isn't even an option as not everyone has guns.

Also, I'll be damned if I let you or any other politician asshole decide whether I can or can't defend myself. It isn't theirs or your decision to make. It's mine.
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See my sig. Neckbeard wants an Orwellian police state in the name of suppressing criminals. He'll chime in any second now to say that's not true, right in line with Orwellian double-think.
 
Numenorean said:
Why shouldn't it be my decision? It doesn't affect you or anyone else. The only person it could possibly affect is a criminal if I end up shooting them. And in that case, it's not an issue.
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That's the point you shouldn't have the right to determine whether someone else lives or dies.
 
HAL9000 said:
That's the point you shouldn't have the right to determine whether someone else lives or dies.
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If I shoot a criminal for breaking into my house, it is the criminal who is the one who decided that he dies. All he had to do not to die was not be a criminal. I did not force him to be a criminal.

In the case of self defense, I absolutely should have the right to decide if I want to defend myself. If that means that someone else dies for doing something they shouldn't be doing, then so be it.
 
irishScott said:
If everyone who reads your posts thinks it is spam, it is spam. I'm sure the people who send me penis-enlargement advertisements think they're performing an honest service too. 🙄
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Well no, if everyone who reads my posts thinks I'm two foot tall that doesn't make it the case. People have no idea about the intent of my posts without me telling them.

Lol.
 
Numenorean said:
If I shoot a criminal for breaking into my house, it is the criminal who is the one who decided that he dies. All he had to do not to die was not be a criminal. I did not force him to be a criminal.

In the case of self defense, I absolutely should have the right to decide if I want to defend myself. If that means that someone else dies for doing something they shouldn't be doing, then so be it.
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You should definitely not have the right to decided that your possessions are worth more than a human life. They are not.
 
HAL9000 said:
I'm guessing this was aimed at me.

Of course not, no one should kill anyone.

But if the choice is between a few innocent people not being able to defend themselves against a few people with guns, whilst at the same time dropping death rates nationally. Or everyone having guns with a very high national death rate. The former is the best option.
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ATOT: "Hal, would you like some eggs?"

Hal: "If my choice is between having a live chicken shoved up my ass, or starving babies in Africa never having eggs again, I'll take the chicken. That's just he kind of moral, bi-polar, bi-sexual, philosophy loving guy I am."

Edit: Sorry, I'm getting silly now. I'm out for lunch and softball practice. You folks carry on the good debate without me.
 
Paladin3 said:
ATOT: "Hal, would you like some eggs?"

Hal: "If my choice is between having a live chicken shoved up my ass, or starving babies in Africa never having eggs again, I'll take the chicken. That's just he kind of moral, bi-polar, bi-sexual, philosophy loving guy I am."
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I don't get it?
 
HAL9000 said:
You should definitely not have the right to decided that your possessions are worth more than a human life. They are not.
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This has nothing to do with my possessions. My life is more valuable than the life of a criminal. Period. End of story. There is no debating that.
 
Numenorean said:
This has nothing to do with my possessions. My life is more valuable than the life of a criminal. Period. End of story. There is no debating that.
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To you.

Someone breaking into your house is not necessarily there to kill you. (Americans often get confused about that)
 
HAL9000 said:
When talking about ethics I am a utilitarian, the world would be better off if gun ownership is illegal. Some innocents would die, but the death toll would drop. I would rather kill 1 innocent person who couldn't defend themselves in exchange for saving 5 people who get accidentally shot.

People should not be able to assume something, then kill someone.
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As long as you can guarantee that the innocents are you and people you care for (and not me or anyone I care for) then I can support your inane drivel.
 
HAL9000 said:
Well no, if everyone who reads my posts thinks I'm two foot tall that doesn't make it the case. People have no idea about the intent of my posts without me telling them.

Lol.
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And as I pointed out, intent is irrelevant. The effect on others is SPAM. But then again you've already admitted you're not here to socialize or be a member of the community, you're here to post useless, senseless, inflammatory opinions (SPAM) and claim to "debate" them (trolling). And even after getting beat down you'll just forget it in 6 days and be back here again in the next gun thread like the broken record you are.
 
ch33zw1z said:
There not there to bake you cookies. You break into someone's house, be prepared for the consequences.
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That's true they aren't. They are not necessarily there to kill you either.

zebano said:
As long as you can guarantee that the innocents are you and people you care for (and not me or anyone I care for) then I can support your inane drivel.
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I can't.

irishScott said:
And as I pointed out, intent is irrelevant. The effect on others is SPAM. But then again you've already admitted you're not here to socialize or be a member of the community, you're here to post useless, senseless, inflammatory opinions (SPAM) and claim to "debate" them (trolling). And even after getting beat down you'll just forget it in 6 days and be back here again in the next gun thread like the broken record you are.
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Well fine, It doesn't really matter to me if you guys think that. I've never claimed this.
 
HAL9000 said:
Well fine, It doesn't really matter to me if you guys think that. I've never claimed this.
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Of course not. If you openly did we'd have reason for the mods to ban you. You've managed to illustrate it quite nicely by inflaming the same pointless "debate" over and over again despite knowing well in advance where it will go.
 
irishScott said:
Of course not. If you openly did we'd have reason for the mods to ban you. You've managed to illustrate it quite nicely by inflaming the same pointless "debate" over and over again despite knowing well in advance where it will go.
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I don't think it's a pointless debate. But this conversation you and I are engaged in is, if you want to continue it feel free to PM me.
 
HAL9000 said:
I don't think it's a pointless debate. But this conversation you and I are engaged in is, if you want to continue it feel free to PM me.
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Then what is the point in your mind?

I have no desire to continue it. I'm pointing out the pattern in public so everyone knows the score for future reference and hopefully your de-railing posts in the next gun thread will go unanswered. I can also provide links proving my point if necessary.
 
Hal, I think you really try to look at the best of people. If somebody is showing off a gun to me and they are a random stranger, I need to make some assumptions.

I may assume that they are peaceful and are not going to harm me... but then why would a stranger show me they are armed? Well, perhaps they are just exercising their right to own it. But there are very specific laws regarding public display of firearms (holstered, etc). Hrmm, running out of peaceful scenarios.

So, what do I do? Should I jump out of my car and offer it to them? Maybe I could toss my girlfriend at them so I can escape... good luck honey I am out! Oh, that's right I have a license to carry.
 
irishScott said:
Then what is the point in your mind?
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The point is to evaluate how I feel or why I feel about this subject, learn what others think about the subject, learn why they feel that way, perhaps find some logic behind it and modify what I think based on things I hadn't considered.

Possessed Freak said:
Hal, I think you really try to look at the best of people. If somebody is showing off a gun to me and they are a random stranger, I need to make some assumptions.

I may assume that they are peaceful and are not going to harm me... but then why would a stranger show me they are armed? Well, perhaps they are just exercising their right to own it. But there are very specific laws regarding public display of firearms (holstered, etc). Hrmm, running out of peaceful scenarios.

So, what do I do? Should I jump out of my car and offer it to them? Maybe I could toss my girlfriend at them so I can escape... good luck honey I am out! Oh, that's right I have a license to carry.
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You shouldn't immediately jump to killing them.
 
All the derailment aside - this should be a lesson to any criminal or aggressor. If you attack somebody or point a gun at them, don't be surprised if you get dead.
 
Why are we allowing a mentally unstable, 22 year old child with NO PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE, and admitted forum troll who can't admit he's gay... derail threads like this???
 
HAL9000 said:
To you.

Someone breaking into your house is not necessarily there to kill you. (Americans often get confused about that)
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And they aren't necessarily there to not kill you either. Thing is, I get to make the decision. They are in MY house, not the other way around.
 
guyver01 said:
Why are we allowing a mentally unstable, 22 year old child with NO PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE, and admitted forum troll who can't admit he's gay... derail threads like this???
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He derails at least 15 threads a day. I've never seen anything quite like it.
 
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